Non Disney w/ EMH????

[clovermeg]

I don't know why this makes so many people upset. How many locals book a room for 1 night. I bet it is quite a few. No where does it say if you book a room, you have to stay in it for a certain number of hours. Disney is getting the same amount of money no matter if the person sleeps there or not. I am not getting anything free out of the deal. Would it make a difference to Disney if I actually put up a tent and slept in it for a few hour. I don't think so.The population of these boards are small compared to the number of people that use Disney lodging. I really don't think a 1 night stay is going to ruin anyone's vacation.I paid for a service and I am going to use the benefits that I paid for.Sleeping in a tent is not going to change anything.I did not lie to anyone. Where do you see that I am lying. I told the person on the phone exactly what I was doing. So you want to tell me where I was lying and to whom did I tell this lie!

Oh Connie...I don't, personally, in any way think you are a liar or are lying. But, I do know your choice is unethical and immoral. Walk a mile in my shoes...I am a single mom to a wonderful daughter, truly the light of my life. The ONLY way I can afford to give my daughter a magical vacation at Disney is to stay at a campsite in a tent at Fort Wilderness. She deserves that vacation just as much as your family does, why would you take that away from someone just so you can get a few extra hours in the park? Will you be explaining that to the child who can't go to Disney because it was booked by people such as yourself? Nope...you seem to be blind to anyone's plight except for yourself. As a teacher I am offended by what you are teaching your children...about ethical responsibility, financial responsibility, and needs versus wants. I'm sure some have sacrificed for you...don't you feel it's your responsibility to sacrifice for others?

 

[clkelley]

Besides I can't loop around in a golf cart on any other disney property.

 

[Ava]

clkelley & gillenkl, thanks for explaining your love for "The Fort." The one & only time I ever camped was in 4th grade with the Girl Scouts and I HATED it! Camping is just not for me, but I understand some people enjoy it and would willingly choose camping over a hotel.

 

[Just Beachy]

You can also always get access by booking a throwaway campground reservation. That together with a top-notch offsite resort can sometimes still be less expensive than a comparable unit onsite.

I think the better advice would be to suggest the OP CAMP at FW. Those "perks" are for guests who stay on-site. Those campsites are not "throwaways" to the people who try to book them and can't get them, at times trying even a year in advance. (I understand they would pay for the campsite, but it's ethically and morally wrong. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right; i.e. sort of like the CEO's of the banks getting huge bonus checks while the rest of us suffer in this horrible economy.) There are families that would like to camp at the Fort and maybe that's the only way they can afford their magical WDW vacation. You are encouraging someone to steal the opportunity away from that family because they themselves can't afford to stay on-site in their preferred accommodations. Last time I checked, vacations weren't entitlements, but luxuries. Maybe we should be suggesting that people save up for their vacations instead of teaching them how to "beat the system". But, then, that would be morally and ethically correct and not at all how this country got into the financial mess we're in now, huh?

 

[BRDof3]

The population of these boards are small compared to the number of people that use Disney lodging. I really don't think a 1 night stay is going to ruin anyone's vacation.I paid for a service and I am going to use the benefits that I paid for.

Who cares that, by renting a "throw away," to save a few bucks, you have kept someone else from getting anything at all? After all, the only thing that counts is that you get what you want. Besides "everybody does it."

You want in-house perks, pay the in-house price. If you can't afford that then you need to find a vacation destination that you can pay for. Don't stiff-arm other people to get more out of your experience.

 

[bama_ed]

I have to ask... if you are paying over $100/night for a campsite, why not just stay in a hotel instead? Then you could take advantage of free dining, gift cards, or whatever promo Disney is running for its hotel guests. With the pricing you mention, the only advantage I can see to staying in a campsite instead of a hotel is if you have a large group and would need multiple hotel rooms (thereby making a hotel more expensive). But you can just about always get a Value room for $100/night or less.

(Not trying to play devil's advocate here, if you read my previous post you'll see I don't agree with people booking campsites just to get access to EMH. I'm just curious why you'd book a campsite if you don't think it's a good value.)

Rack to rack, when the Fort is $100+ for a campsite, the Values cost way more than $100. Spring break time, holiday periods, etc. not even close.

Bama ED

 

[Duane]

hey that is what was happening at WL/VWL for YEARS....

campers kept going to WL because it had a better pool. Disney tried to stop it gave up and finally build a better pool at FW.

so don't pretend that campers are above this.

for many years when visiting VWL there were more campers using the pools than guest of Wl/VWL.

Pat you are 100% correct. I have heard about and remember the stink that went on with the VWL/WL pool. And again I agree 100% that that issue was also wrong. In fact, it was very wrong, because whenever one checks in at the Fort you sign a document that says pool hopping is not allowed. As such we never traveled over to the WL pool from the Fort. Even though we are DVC members, and carry our membership card, could most likely get away with it, we still understand wrong is wrong.

Now I have to disagree about your statement that Disney got fed up with campers going to over to the WL pool so they built a nice one at the Fort. Disney has sunk millions of $$ to upgrade the Fort overall, and the new pool was one of the additions.

I guess what us campers are trying to say, is that the campsites are a small finite resource in the overall lodging pie at WDW compared to the brick and mortar rooms. When its intended purpose is not used as it was designed, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Its almost like a DVC member wanting to stay at BLT in a Grand Villa only to find out that someone from off the street rented it out from CRO and only used it during the day for a touchdown space. Yes, its perfectly okay to do if one has the money and wants to spring for it, but you as a DVC member also wanted it, but can't get it because it was the last one available.

There are bad apples in every group, but its up to us individually to continue to do the right thing and teach our kids to the same. If we don't then God help us all.

 

[connie1042]

Okay, this has gone a little to far. If what I did is so wrong I am sorry. We stay on-site a couple of times a year. We have stayed in Deluxe and , mods and values. I had no idea that people did this all the time.If this is done all the time, then Disney needs to change their policy. We do a lot of camping. If you need a camp site during a holiday weekend, around here, it is usually so many sites reserved a year in advance and the rest are first come first serve. People come and put their stuff on the camp site a couple of days early, they pay for the site, but they do not stay there until Friday or Sat.I guess the key here is planning ahead. We did not do this for free parking. I have never done this before. I usually do not even do EMH, but no one even asked why I would do this, this time.Not that it would matter,since everyone thinks I am such a bad person, and that I am ruining some ones vacation. I really feel like I would like to cancel the whole trip. It just is not worth all the mean things that are being said. I did this with everything up front. If this is so wrong I am sorry.I will not try to defend my self any more.. I think enough damage as been done. Thanks

 

[ftwildernessguy]

hey that is what was happening at WL/VWL for YEARS....

campers kept going to WL because it had a better pool. Disney tried to stop it gave up and finally build a better pool at FW.

so don't pretend that campers are above this.

for many years when visiting VWL there were more campers using the pools than guest of Wl/VWL.

I seem to remember my kids using this logic many years ago to justify some of their antics. I seriously doubt there were ever more people from the campground using the pools at WL than WL guests.

 

[gillenkl]

clkelley & gillenkl, thanks for explaining your love for "The Fort." The one & only time I ever camped was in 4th grade with the Girl Scouts and I HATED it! Camping is just not for me, but I understand some people enjoy it and would willingly choose camping over a hotel.

AVA - lol I totally feel your pain about the Girl Scout camping as I had the same experience. I only camped with them once as a kid - NEVER again . The bathroom was a piece of wood over a hole. But I camped for years with my family in an RV and now with my own family. There are many different ways to do camping and no it isn't for everyone. At least we still have disney in common!

 

[bama_ed]

Folks, this is a simple matter of Disney offering a service at a price, and people deciding whether or not they will purchase that service. Once they've purchased that service, they can use it in any way they see fit, within the rules that Disney establishes. If the demand outstrips supply (for any reason---including people using them for EMH access) then there is only one rational solution: reduce demand. That could be done by enforcing minimum stays, or it could be done simply by raising the per-night costs. One could also just lower the value---by, for example, not offering EMH access to campground visitors. Disney could even charge higher prices for the site, and then offer a discount if you actually put a tent on it.

(Edited: I suppose you could also increase supply. But, I can't imagine Disney would devote more land to the relatively low-revenue campsites. In fact, I would expect to see them continue to "upgrade" the campsites that exist, converting more of them to the more-expensive pad sites and/or replacing some with cabins.)

For the record, I've never actually used a campsite in this way. I'm a staunch avoider of EMH-designated parks, because I'd rather get my Extra Magical Hour of Sleep and visit less-crowded parks. In fact, I've *never* attended an EMH, not once---despite having several stays at Old Key West. But, the option exists for those who wish to make use of it, and it's not even news---it's been known for years that one can do this, and at least one published guide book suggests it as a money-saving strategy. Until and unless Disney changes its policies about campground bookings and EMH access, people will continue to book them for this reason.

Prof,

For the record, there is more than one rational solution to demand outstripping supply. Eliminating fraud comes to mind. The fraudulent rental of a campsite for purposes other than what it's intented for, if stopped or eliminated, would reduce demand. The campsite is intended to be occupied for the length of time it's paid for.

I agree with you about EMH though. It's a marketing point that is actually pretty worthless. Even the Unofficial Guide to WDW recommends avoiding EMH parks because they're more crowded and in general make your days longer. Statistics bear out that fact. So paying extra for a campsite after trying to save money by staying off-site for the purposes of getting EMH is a non-starter.

Just because this strategy is in a guide book doesn't make it right. That's a poor excuse right there. Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's like pool-hopping. I can ride the monorail over to the Grand Floridian, walk off onto the platform, and enjoy their pool. I broke no rule in getting there. It's still wrong so I don't do it.

It's okay to get a little theoretical but you have to keep the selfish human factor in the picture too. Some folks will take what they can and see if they can get away with it. Not all but some. They shouldn't get defensive about being held accountable for their actions.

Bama ED

 

[spiceycat]

I seem to remember my kids using this logic many years ago to justify some of their antics. I seriously doubt there were ever more people from the campground using the pools at WL than WL guests.

believe me there was - one guy was saying it was nice to stay at FW but swim at WL.

so went and asked.

of the 30 people - 25 were campers. (I think those were the numbers - it was a long time ago)

 

[Judique]

I don't know why this makes so many people upset. How many locals book a room for 1 night. I bet it is quite a few. No where does it say if you book a room, you have to stay in it for a certain number of hours. Disney is getting the same amount of money no matter if the person sleeps there or not. I am not getting anything free out of the deal. Would it make a difference to Disney if I actually put up a tent and slept in it for a few hour. I don't think so.The population of these boards are small compared to the number of people that use Disney lodging. I really don't think a 1 night stay is going to ruin anyone's vacation.I paid for a service and I am going to use the benefits that I paid for.Sleeping in a tent is not going to change anything.I did not lie to anyone. Where do you see that I am lying. I told the person on the phone exactly what I was doing. So you want to tell me where I was lying and to whom did I tell this lie!

EMH is for onsite guests. Despite the fact that you are paying for the campsite, you are not an onsite guest. You are using the system to bypass the intent of EMH - a perk for people who actually stay at Disney. And yes, you are correct you are paying for it - $7 a person after you deduct parking, as you've stated. If Disney wanted to charge for EMH at the gate, I think it would be a bit more then $7 - or say $5 if you brought in 10 people. The CM sold you the site, and you told exactly what you were doing, and got away with it, because Disney has not plugged this hole yet, but they will. The problem is that it will be plugged to stop your abuse of the system at the expense of the Fort Wilderness campers who come year after year to spend their weeks there and to enjoy camping and the camaraderie that exists among the camping community.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

believe me there was - one guy was saying it was nice to stay at FW but swim at WL.

so went and asked.

of the 30 people - 25 were campers. (I think those were the numbers - it was a long time ago)

I was there that day - I was enjoying a beverage outside roaring forks when somebody came up and asked where I was staying. I told them none of their business. Of the 31 people at the pool that day, only 3 were from the campground according to the poll I did the same day.

 

[daddyphat808]

I think the better advice would be to suggest the OP CAMP at FW. Those "perks" are for guests who stay on-site. Those campsites are not "throwaways" to the people who try to book them and can't get them, at times trying even a year in advance. (I understand they would pay for the campsite, but it's ethically and morally wrong. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right; i.e. sort of like the CEO's of the banks getting huge bonus checks while the rest of us suffer in this horrible economy.) There are families that would like to camp at the Fort and maybe that's the only way they can afford their magical WDW vacation. You are encouraging someone to steal the opportunity away from that family because they themselves can't afford to stay on-site in their preferred accommodations. Last time I checked, vacations weren't entitlements, but luxuries. Maybe we should be suggesting that people save up for their vacations instead of teaching them how to "beat the system". But, then, that would be morally and ethically correct and not at all how this country got into the financial mess we're in now, huh?

nicely put!

 

[CampingBandit]

Okay, this has gone a little to far. If what I did is so wrong I am sorry. We stay on-site a couple of times a year. We have stayed in Deluxe and , mods and values. I had no idea that people did this all the time.If this is done all the time, then Disney needs to change their policy. We do a lot of camping. If you need a camp site during a holiday weekend, around here, it is usually so many sites reserved a year in advance and the rest are first come first serve. People come and put their stuff on the camp site a couple of days early, they pay for the site, but they do not stay there until Friday or Sat.I guess the key here is planning ahead. We did not do this for free parking. I have never done this before. I usually do not even do EMH, but no one even asked why I would do this, this time.Not that it would matter,since everyone thinks I am such a bad person, and that I am ruining some ones vacation. I really feel like I would like to cancel the whole trip. It just is not worth all the mean things that are being said. I did this with everything up front. If this is so wrong I am sorry.I will not try to defend my self any more.. I think enough damage as been done. Thanks

Having read thru the entire thread, I don't see what is being said as "mean" or being directed at you specifically, but rather directed at the concept of it, and we're just trying to explain that from Fort fans' perspective, the practice is unfair and we will do what we can to discourage it. Nothing has been said that attacks you personally, there is no reason for you to cancel your whole trip.
(You could just cancel the campsite portion...)

 

[DisCamper]

If Disney wants to take free parking and EMH from Fort people, let them! I feel it is not worth it to me to have those perks.

 

[justkem]

One of the things that people who do these "throwaway reservations" fail to realize is that any campground is a group of individuals bound together by a common love of sleeping out under the stars. Tent campers (especially those who like their morning cup of coffee with their cigarette without having to go outside of their hotel room) have nowhere else to go on property. Camping at the nearest grounds outside of Disney makes travel to and from the parks pretty much impossible.

Now think about it. Lets pretend you've invested (yes, I said invested, and I meant it) $1,000 or so in the best camp equipment that turns any national park into a luxury suite with all the amenities. You're willing to pay top dollar for the best of the best campgrounds. You find out that you can't simply because someone else looked at your only option as a means to save a buck.

Yeah, that'd tick me off, too.

Put it a bit more into perspective... what about the folks doing family reunions at the Ft. Wilderness campgrounds? Just because you got into the IVR first with your "throwaway campground", you locked someone out of a chance to watch fireworks at the beach with their family and then crawl into their $400 tent for a nice night under the stars surrounded by loved ones. They're staying at the roachmotel down the way because that's all they can afford.

You don't feel a bit guilty about that?

Shame.

 

[stacktester]

One of the things that people who do these "throwaway reservations" fail to realize is that any campground is a group of individuals bound together by a common love of sleeping out under the stars. Tent campers (especially those who like their morning cup of coffee with their cigarette without having to go outside of their hotel room) have nowhere else to go on property. Camping at the nearest grounds outside of Disney makes travel to and from the parks pretty much impossible.

Now think about it. Lets pretend you've invested (yes, I said invested, and I meant it) $1,000 or so in the best camp equipment that turns any national park into a luxury suite with all the amenities. You're willing to pay top dollar for the best of the best campgrounds. You find out that you can't simply because someone else looked at your only option as a means to save a buck.

Yeah, that'd tick me off, too.

Put it a bit more into perspective... what about the folks doing family reunions at the Ft. Wilderness campgrounds? Just because you got into the IVR first with your "throwaway campground", you locked someone out of a chance to watch fireworks at the beach with their family and then crawl into their $400 tent for a nice night under the stars surrounded by loved ones. They're staying at the roachmotel down the way because that's all they can afford.

You don't feel a bit guilty about that?

Shame.

I've never seen you on the boards, BUT can i hire you as my company spokesperson. Very well put and not once did you insult anyone.

 

[Luv2Camp]

I've never seen you on the boards, BUT can i hire you as my company spokesperson. Very well put and not once did you insult anyone.

I agree...Nicely put!!!