OKW Extension Papers & Lockout Mentioned

[rsinj]

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[CVG]

Is it known when (or if) OKW will start charging differential dues based on expiry date? It sounded from some earlier discussion that this perhaps should have started in 2012 (to allow for 30 year maintenance items in reserve fund).

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

This is very interesting, although I do not agree that a differential needed to start in 2012. Reserves are collected by formula to account for the useful life of items to be replaced. It's highly possible there were no items in the 2012 budget with a useful life calculation beyond 2042.

Now, however, I would question that assumption.

I have no quarrel with the salary portion of dues. I suspect okw doesn't have dedicated busses but pays in for the fleet so transportation is likely not open for change either.

Is there any way for me to discover the actual line items for the calculation of dues per point for reserves beyond the skimpy correspondence I have already received?

 

[CVG]

This is very interesting, although I do not agree that a differential needed to start in 2012. Reserves are collected by formula to account for the useful life of items to be replaced. It's highly possible there were no items in the 2012 budget with a useful life calculation beyond 2042.

Now, however, I would question that assumption.

I have no quarrel with the salary portion of dues. I suspect okw doesn't have dedicated busses but pays in for the fleet so transportation is likely not open for change either.

Is there any way for me to discover the actual line items for the calculation of dues per point for reserves beyond the skimpy correspondence I have already received?

Look for the section on Replacement Fund Components (covering the other stuff besides salary and transportation, etc)

https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.di...s/condo-association/2023-Condo-Notice-OKW.pdf

 

[CVG]

Here.....

 

[chalee94]

Is it known when (or if) OKW will start charging differential dues based on expiry date?

The answer is no.

DVD will probably be flirting with a lawsuit soon if they don't address it, but they haven't said a word lately. There has been a lot of turnover the last few years and some of the execs have pushed the limits in other areas with (fraudulent IMO) point charts that were eventually pulled back and changed. Can't say if they have the competence to understand the situation or if it's even on their radar.

This is the last time the OKW reserve issue was discussed on the boards:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/should-okw-2042-dues-be-different-to-okw-2057.3859452/page-4

 

[CVG]

The answer is no.

DVD will probably be flirting with a lawsuit soon if they don't address it, but they haven't said a word lately. There has been a lot of turnover the last few years and some of the execs have pushed the limits in other areas with (fraudulent IMO) point charts that were eventually pulled back and changed. Can't say if they have the competence to understand the situation or if it's even on their radar.

This is the last time the OKW reserve issue was discussed on the boards:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/should-okw-2042-dues-be-different-to-okw-2057.3859452/page-4

Thanks for the link. I didn't want to start a new thread and this one felt close to the cause. It may be worth pinning it as it will be a hot topic all the way through now until resolution, and new OKW DVC members should be aware of the issue. Cheers.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the link. I didn't want to start a new thread and this one felt close to the cause. It may be worth pinning it as it will be a hot topic all the way through now until resolution, and new OKW DVC members should be aware of the issue. Cheers.

It likely won't be a real issue until it gets under around 10 years from the end date for the 2042 contracts, possibly even later if there are no bigger projects like a hard refurbishment, roof's, etc in the interim. That's not to say some won't try to make it a big deal. I've long predicted there WILL be drama. I still think it's likely there will be some type of exit offer or buy back a little early. IMO the bigger issue is how will they handle reservations that last year or 2 when they do not have enough units to handle all reservations prior to the 31 Jan 2042 ending date.

 

[chalee94]

I have a pretty small contract and it won't affect me much personally. And while it applies across all resorts, especially 2042 resorts, it's mostly on the radar for OKW owners due to the extension. I was expecting/hoping to hear something in the next few years (by 2026/2027) but Dean's timeframe may be more likely.

With that said, it may not be a bad time from a political standpoint to figure out whom to contact with the FL government timeshare regulators to start looking into the issue...

 

[Cfabar1]

It is amusing reading through the old posts and just seeing how this ended up. I am sure getting notice about all the actions Disney could take frightened more than a few owners at the time. And here we are 15 years later, and DVC still is letting those who did nothing access their accounts and points. That tells me they knew they were on shaky ground.

I would expect by around 2030 they will start buying up as many OKW resale contracts as they can get their hands on. They will be dirt cheap, and might even encourage members to do a buyback.

What the long term play is, I am a little more uncertain about. I think they thought the extension would be easy money - and it was for those who opted in.

I wouldn't be surprised if Disney tries to "remarket" the extension again.

I imagine nobody will want to be DVC President beginning in 2038 or so... That five year timeline from 2038-2043 is going to be a terrible job for someone to navigate!

 

[CVG]

I imagine nobody will want to be DVC President beginning in 2038 or so... That five year timeline from 2038-2043 is going to be a terrible job for someone to navigate!

There will always be some power-crazed pyschopathic VP looking for the mighty pay-off that job would bring. Heck, I'd do it myself - I don't need the money.

 

[Dean]

I have a pretty small contract and it won't affect me much personally. And while it applies across all resorts, especially 2042 resorts, it's mostly on the radar for OKW owners due to the extension. I was expecting/hoping to hear something in the next few years (by 2026/2027) but Dean's timeframe may be more likely.

With that said, it may not be a bad time from a political standpoint to figure out whom to contact with the FL government timeshare regulators to start looking into the issue...

I'm sure they discuss it about every year and in more Dept about every 2 years, esp when they're planning the release of any new resort. In some ways OKW will be more complicated for 2042 from a reservation standpoint and in some ways less so. To be the biggest question is how are they going to handle end of contract reservations, limit banking/borrowing, dues the last year or two, etc.

It is amusing reading through the old posts and just seeing how this ended up. I am sure getting notice about all the actions Disney could take frightened more than a few owners at the time. And here we are 15 years later, and DVC still is letting those who did nothing access their accounts and points. That tells me they knew they were on shaky ground.

I would expect by around 2030 they will start buying up as many OKW resale contracts as they can get their hands on. They will be dirt cheap, and might even encourage members to do a buyback.

What the long term play is, I am a little more uncertain about. I think they thought the extension would be easy money - and it was for those who opted in.

I wouldn't be surprised if Disney tries to "remarket" the extension again.

I imagine nobody will want to be DVC President beginning in 2038 or so... That five year timeline from 2038-2043 is going to be a terrible job for someone to navigate!

As I predicted before, they did not have the legal or contractual authority to impose a special assessment in this regard. All they really can do is intervene if they fall behind on dues, try to sell or at the initial end date. Even then, as I read the contractual language, those owners could keep using the contract. As I've previously stated, had I still owned OKW I would have been one that didn't extend and didn't sign over and probably would have pushed for a "free" 2057 contract which would likely cost more in lawyer fees than the extension was.

 

[Cfabar1]

It is very possible depending on how the final few years are handled they will have a lawsuit on their hands anyways as relates to the annual dues. That question is hard enough at the other resorts, but the waters will be incredibly muddied at OKW.

 

[BeachClub2014]

It is amusing reading through the old posts and just seeing how this ended up. I am sure getting notice about all the actions Disney could take frightened more than a few owners at the time. And here we are 15 years later, and DVC still is letting those who did nothing access their accounts and points. That tells me they knew they were on shaky ground.

I would expect by around 2030 they will start buying up as many OKW resale contracts as they can get their hands on. They will be dirt cheap, and might even encourage members to do a buyback.

What the long term play is, I am a little more uncertain about. I think they thought the extension would be easy money - and it was for those who opted in.

I wouldn't be surprised if Disney tries to "remarket" the extension again.

I imagine nobody will want to be DVC President beginning in 2038 or so... That five year timeline from 2038-2043 is going to be a terrible job for someone to navigate!

Maybe that's a factor driving the incredible sale on direct OKW points they're running. Perhaps they want to move some of their inventory to make room for more ROFR replenishment. That would get more 2057 extended points in circulation and reduce the resale inventory of 2042 contracts.

 

[Dean]

It is very possible depending on how the final few years are handled they will have a lawsuit on their hands anyways as relates to the annual dues. That question is hard enough at the other resorts, but the waters will be incredibly muddied at OKW.

Dues are going to be difficult at OKW but also at all resorts as they end depending on how it's handled, esp since not everyone will get to use all of their points. From a reservation standpoint I think it's actually potentially more difficult at the resorts other than OKW as DVC has more inherent flexibility there if they hold back on the points they own themselves late. I'm collecting popcorn getting ready though.

 

[Sandisw]

Dues are going to be difficult at OKW but also at all resorts as they end depending on how it's handled, esp since not everyone will get to use all of their points. From a reservation standpoint I think it's actually potentially more difficult at the resorts other than OKW as DVC has more inherent flexibility there if they hold back on the points they own themselves late. I'm collecting popcorn getting ready though.

One thing they should be able to do is make all points the same UY for that last year so everyone gets them and had the same 11 months to use them.

I could also see them suspending banking and borrowing the last few years and even increase the home resort advantage for those owners so others can’t trade until many have had a chance to book.

I also am not sure that an owner who didn’t sign or pay can’t just try and keep using and pay the dues. Worst case, DVD locks it but maybe it won’t be worth it?

 

[Cfabar1]

One thing they should be able to do is make all points the same UY for that last year so everyone gets them and had the same 11 months to use them.

I could also see them suspending banking and borrowing the last few years and even increase the home resort advantage for those owners so others can’t trade until many have had a chance to book.

I also am not sure that an owner who didn’t sign or pay can’t just try and keep using and pay the dues. Worst case, DVD locks it but maybe it won’t be worth it?

I don't recall, but can they completely suspend banking and borrowing? I thought they had to allow at least 50%? Or maybe that's just how they started but the POS allows them to eliminate it if they wish.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't recall, but can they completely suspend banking and borrowing? I thought they had to allow at least 50%? Or maybe that's just how they started but the POS allows them to eliminate it if they wish.

As long as they are basing it to balance supply and demand, they can suspend it any time and there are no limits.

They don’t even need to allow it to ever be 100%…the contract simply says we have the right.

It’s the Home Resort rules and regulations that determines the % and that is in the control of DVC

So, they can definitely suspend completely and be within the rules. IMO, I can see it to keep points balanced to actual room inventory in those last. Few years.

 

[Dean]

One thing they should be able to do is make all points the same UY for that last year so everyone gets them and had the same 11 months to use them.

I could also see them suspending banking and borrowing the last few years and even increase the home resort advantage for those owners so others can’t trade until many have had a chance to book.

I also am not sure that an owner who didn’t sign or pay can’t just try and keep using and pay the dues. Worst case, DVD locks it but maybe it won’t be worth it?

I don't see any way to adjust UY of the points and I don't think it's matter anyway as that'd still be more points than villas in the 2042 category the last 2 years.

I've long predicted they'll limit banking the last 2 possibly 3 years and borrowing the last year possibly 2. They could also give an out to those wanting to not pay dues and give up a that last year of points. They could prorate the number of points based on UY compared to the end date with a comensurate decrease in dues or they could just have a free for all with the unlucky and poor planners simply losing out. The latter is likely begging for legal action so I see it as being the least likely of all variables.

Since the ownership is actually tied to the land lease and they extended the land lease, I do feel one could make a valid argument they still owned without paying up. But DVC could certainly throw their weight around and make it not worth fighting with them. Likely they'd compromise with those owners. DVC has a history of making certain offers contingent on non disclosure but I think we'd hear about this type of deal if it happened much at all.

I don't recall, but can they completely suspend banking and borrowing? I thought they had to allow at least 50%? Or maybe that's just how they started but the POS allows them to eliminate it if they wish.

They can.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Thank you. I read that earlier and had forgotten. It seems to me that some of the useful life items already exceed my years of availability. Am I reading it wrong? Three items have a useful life that exceeds 18 years. I see there is a range but I am assuming that is to capture the various components that are collapsed into these line items.