OKW Extension Papers & Lockout Mentioned

[Rex1993]

The more I read about this, the more I’m convinced the holdouts were heroes. It definitely appears that all DVD was doing was generating immediate cash for an extension a full generation away. “We will take your $200,000,000 today and 35 years from now we will give you a ground lease extension.” That’s some creative accounting! This is the reason why I get so frustrated with DVD’s complete control over the associations and why I feel those who held out made a bold stand that taught DVD a lesson we should all be thankful for.

 

[Genie+]

DVC was selling OKW at $92pp direct in 2007, and once they did the extension started selling the 2057’s at $96pp.

Starting Sept 2007 the cost was $25pp, but an owner acting before March 2008 could get $10 discount.

Any owner who completed the quitclaim or extension were able to get $30 credit on 2008 dues.

Gifts were given for extension buyers - lithograph and lighthouse memory capsule.

If you want a real blast from the past:

I went to the DVC Special Meeting​

 

[lehrsj]

DVC was selling OKW at $92pp direct in 2007, and once they did the extension started selling the 2057’s at $96pp.

Starting Sept 2007 the cost was $25pp, but an owner acting before March 2008 could get $10 discount.

Any owner who completed the quitclaim or extension were able to get $30 credit on 2008 dues.

Gifts were given for extension buyers - lithograph and lighthouse memory capsule.

If you want a real blast from the past:

I went to the DVC Special Meeting​

I read through the DVC Special Meeting thread listed above and found this amusing:

“ I did find it interesting that they also pointed out that the $15 per point for the additional 15 years is less that what the original preconstruction cost was per year in 1991 since then the price was $51 per point for the 50 years. “

I guess they figured out that no one would understand the time value of money and that $15 today is not the same as $15 in 35 years.

 

[walt34]

This is the reason why I get so frustrated with DVD’s complete control over the associations and why I feel those who held out made a bold stand that taught DVD a lesson we should all be thankful for.

I agree that DVD handled the extension badly but the only outcome I can see is that they won't offer an extension ever again. Not sure I feel thankful for this.

 

[Chili327]

I agree that DVD handled the extension badly but the only outcome I can see is that they won't offer an extension ever again. Not sure I feel thankful for this.

They just need to figure out how to offer an extension and have the only other option is to opt out. No wish washy middle ground. You either sign on for the extension or you opt out and your contract ends.
Disney would then have a bunch of points to sell direct when the extension starts, but that may not be a bad thing either.

 

[Rex1993]

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can answer this question. The whole structure of the deal seems completely wonky. A true lease extension would be a contract with the landowner and the association. The consideration for the extension is agreed to between those two parties. Why is DVD collecting the money for a special assessment and then giving discounts? Does anyone have the actual documentation from the lease extension?

 

[Sandisw]

They just need to figure out how to offer an extension and have the only other option is to opt out. No wish washy middle ground. You either sign on for the extension or you opt out and your contract ends.
Disney would then have a bunch of points to sell direct when the extension starts, but that may not be a bad thing either.

The problem is, and I believe this is why it’s never been offered…nothing to do with the hold outs…is that an extension of the ground lease extends everyone…which is what our deeds our tied to…look at the actual language of a deed.

That means, to do it properly to not have those who do nothing eligible is create a brand new 15 years resort, which can’t be done via FL timeshare law.

It explains why this was tried via a special assessment, which applied to all, and that the only way out of the fee was to quit claim it back.

Since it was backed down, it appears to me that they knew it was shaky ground to enforce either option.

To me, them not trying it again was because they can’t do it legally and force people out at expiration…not to mention that they can sell a lot more points making those new associations moving forward.

 

[walt34]

Since it was backed down, it appears to me that they knew it was shaky ground to enforce either option.

To me, them not trying it again was because they can’t do it legally and force people out at expiration…not to mention that they can sell a lot more points making those new associations moving forward.

Maybe they just decided that the only options legally possible were a PR nightmare to execute. The outcome would be the same: they tried, they failed, they probably won't try again.

 

[intamin]

I just wish they had tested extending Beach Club and Boardwalk instead of OKW

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe they just decided that the only options legally possible were a PR nightmare to execute. The outcome would be the same: they tried, they failed, they probably won't try again.

Lawyers were involved so I tend to think they knew they were on shaky ground to take it further.

Disney has enough lawyers that if they felt it was a good decision, they would have pushed it.

Regardless, doing it the way they did, without the vote of owners, definitely made it a sure thing they’d not try it that way again

 

[lehrsj]

If someone has Old Key West points and did not do the extension and did not do a quit claim deed would paying the $25 per point today to extend it be worth it?

 

[intamin]

If someone has Old Key West points and did not do the extension and did not do a quit claim deed would paying the $25 per point today to extend it be worth it?

25 dollars today is worth a lot less than 25 dollars back in 2008 or whenever it was they did the extension. I think it'd be worth it personally.

 

[Rex1993]

@Sandisw is correct. The extension of the ground lease was a blanket extension. Disney had no legal ability to do it just for certain owners who paid. My understanding is that they tried to end run around this by imposing a special assessment but weren’t able to actually do that because they would have needed to have actual owners vote, not their proxy. It was a cash grab for Disney that was successful but at least seems to have taught them that their control isn’t absolute and some people aren’t just going to do anything DVD tells them to.

 

[Rex1993]

If someone has Old Key West points and did not do the extension and did not do a quit claim deed would paying the $25 per point today to extend it be worth it?

If I had Old Key West points I wouldn’t do a thing except continue to pay my dues and probably spend some time finding out who the other holdouts are. Be ready for a fight in 2042 but if you’re wiling to stand the ground it does not appear Disney can do anything legally. What they do practically is another story. They’ve already gone the legal intimidation route and were quite successful with getting people to sign quitclaims. That blows my mind that they actually went so far in intimidating people to get that done. It also seems crazy that part of the closing on resale is executing the quitclaim. Disney doesn’t have the legal power to enforce that.

 

[walt34]

Be ready for a fight in 2042 but if you’re wiling to stand the ground it does not appear Disney can do anything legally.

The objective here being to get use for a period I didn’t pay for?

 

[aammtt20]

The objective here being to get use for a period I didn’t pay for?

It’s not technically a period they didn’t pay though. DVC extended the ground lease on the property first, which automatically extended all members contracts. They asked for payment later, even though all members had technically been granted the extension. Then, they asked for owners who didn’t pay the extension to sign their rights away to something that had already been granted them. Certain owners wisely did not sign their rights away, because they recognized that DVC’s actions wouldn’t hold up legally, trying to force owners to sign away their rights to property that had already been legally granted to them. So I wouldn’t describe the situation so simply as “using something that wasn’t paid for” although, yes these owners did not pay for the extension

 

[Chili327]

So I wouldn’t describe the situation so simply as “using something that wasn’t paid for” although, yes these owners did not pay for the extension

Even if they never have to pay the extension, they will still pay dues correct?

 

[aammtt20]

Even if they never have to pay the extension, they will still pay dues correct?

I'm no legal expert on the topic, but yes they would need to pay their dues to still access the product, like all other owners. The real question is if DVC will try to lock out the owner's who haven't paid the extension, even if they continue to pay their dues (or maybe DVC won't give them the option online to continue paying dues... who knows).

 

[CastAStone]

I'm no legal expert on the topic, but yes they would need to pay their dues to still access the product, like all other owners. The real question is if DVC will try to lock out the owner's who haven't paid the extension, even if they continue to pay their dues (or maybe DVC won't give them the option online to continue paying dues... who knows).

I think the real question is whether a handful of nonagenarians want to spend their remaining time and money suing a giant corporation.

I’m betting that when push comes to shove the answer will be no. Disney seems to be betting that as well.

 

[aammtt20]

I think the real question is whether a handful of nonagenarians want to spend their remaining time and money suing a giant corporation.

I’m betting that when push comes to shove the answer will be no. Disney seems to be betting that as well.

Agreed, it will be interesting to how much of an issue or non-issue this all ends up being. I'll be 51 in 2041, so I'll definitely have my popcorn ready in the case of drama as we approach the expiration date.