Our stateroom host insulted my DD10! What would you have done?

[Lumiere999]

We had a wonderful time on our 10/12 cruise and our stateroom host was absolutely wonderful. We really enjoyed him and the kids loved him. Well, on our last night he came into our room to wish us a save journey home and then I couldn't believe my ears, he said to my DD10, "try not to get too fat!". Luckily she didn't really understand him with his accent and for a moment I thought maybe I was hearing things too. But after that he said "next time you come back, you be thin." My DH and I just laughed it off and he left the room. It was one of those moments that, in retrospect, I wish I had grabbed him in the hall and told him that what he just said was an insult to my daughter and that you shouldn't comment on people's weight. I thought about putting this on the survey but I didn't have the heart to do it. He was such a wonderful man and he really did a super job all week. He couldn't have done enough for us. I have just chalked it up to maybe in his country it is not an insult to call people fat. I don't know...I hope he wouldn't intentionally insult a 10 year old.

What would everyone else have done?

 

[imgoingtodisney]

oh my - there was a post not that long about about kids being made fun of - my sons biggest fear is being called fat. When we vacationed at Yogi Bear's Campground this summer the boys could not go into the water w/any shirts on. DS10.5 wears a fishnet tank top w/all his bathing suits as he is very self-conscious about his belly (which I dont think is that big) He wouldnt go swimming cos he wouldnt take his top off! Im hoping we dont get your stateroom host.
I probably would have let it go.

 

[Lisa F]

First of all, from your description I am quite sure that he was not intending to insult your daughter. I guess it's all about how you look at it, but the word "fat" does NOT have to be a "dirty word" or an insult. It is what it is, and it's a descriptive word, but people often equate being fat with being stupid, lazy, ugly etc etc. I don't consider it to be such a bad thing if other cultures don't make that connection and don't consider it to be an insult.

That said, it was still an inappropriate thing to say. While I'm positive he meant it as a good wish for a bright future, at the same time it's the kind of comment that would be along the lines of "Maybe next time you won't have so much grey hair" to someone who is getting older, "Maybe next time you won't have lost anymore hair" to someone who is balding, "Maybe next time you won't be so skinny" to someone who has trouble gaining weight, "Maybe next time you won't have that funky skin rash" to someone who had an allergic reaction. Being old, bald, overly skinny or allergic to something that gives you a rash you are extremely self conscious about is certainly nothing to be ashamed of but it's also not something that I would want someone who is in a service role discussing with me.

I know lots of people go on about how CM's become friends etc... I'm sorry, but as long as we are in the position where we are paying and they are being paid by us, there are just certain lines that should not be crossed. I don't make my friends clean up my messes or serve me dinner (well only sometimes ;-) ) and I certainly don't pay them many thousands of dollars for the privilege of visiting their house.

Anyway, I probably would've spoken to guest services about it, making it perfectly clear that your host was otherwise wonderful, it was just this one inappropriate comment that bothered you. Perhaps he just needs to be told that we americans are sensitive about the fact that obesity has become such an epidemic and it's not an appropriate thing to comment on, just like any other disease or its physical manifestations.

 

[Bride2BeIn2003]

WOW... I can't imagine how you must have felt. I am so sorry that you and your daughter had to experiance this on vacation. Growing up as an overweight child, and living as an overweight adult, I have experianced some of the same things. In some other countries, being fat is a wonderful thing. When I was in Jamaica I had men constantly commenting about my weight with a smile on their face. This is something that they feel is beautiful and wonderful. I don't however think that you host ment this in a complimentary fashion. I would have certainly brought this to the attention of guest services and possibly even higher. I can also understand that you were shocked at the time and did not comment on it. When people are blatently rude it sometimes takes us by surprise. I think it is awfully inapropriate and downright mean for him to say that. Someone needs to let him know that this is unacceptable behavior before he ruins some other poor childs vacation. I am sorry for you experiance. I hope that I do not get treated in this manner because I will bring it to the attention of the management.

 

[Cruise]

Originally posted by Lisa F
First of all, from your description I am quite sure that he was not intending to insult your daughter. I guess it's all about how you look at it, but the word "fat" does NOT have to be a "dirty word" or an insult. It is what it is, and it's a descriptive word, but people often equate being fat with being stupid, lazy, ugly etc etc. I don't consider it to be such a bad thing if other cultures don't make that connection and don't consider it to be an insult.

I would respectfully disagree with an assesment that he was not intending to insult the daughter, although "insult" is a strong word for it.

This is my opinion based on the fact that he followed the remark with "Next time you be thin" which implies that fat was the "bad" thing. I'm sure he didn't mean anything malicious by it, but at the same time, he was pointing out to a 10 year old what he considered to be a fault and basically telling her to correct the "problem." Whether he thought it was an "insult" or not, it was inappropriate for him to tell a guest to correct something about herself.

Just my opinion....
Julie

 

[4nana]

No flames on this one!!
Sorry about your experience. We have probably all been in situations where we were too shocked to say anything! Even tho he may have been the world's best stateroom host and didn't mean to be offensive ~ for his career and other families protection , he needed to be called aside and politely told
'he was out of line with his comment'.

 

[Lisa F]

Julie,

If you read the rest of my post, I think we are saying the same thing. He did not mean to insult her but he did make an inappropriate comment. I'm not entirely sure where our opinions differ. I don't know, maybe I'm just an idiot, but I prefer to not think the worst of people (see my sig below). I think that if someone is really nice to you for the entire cruise and says one thing that is out of character, that one should not take it as the intention to insult or to be mean. That said, if you read the rest of my post I DID say that it is NOT appropriate for ANY CM on the cruise to make a comment like that to a guest whether it be about their weight or any other attribute that guest may have and that something SHOULD have been said about it. If you are not comfortable talking to him directly then you can most certainly say something to guest services without the intention of "getting him into trouble." If you preface your complaint with "Darwin was a wonderful stateroom host except for one incident and I'd like for you to address it" then you're not blowing it out of proportion, which is what I think the original poster was afraid of doing by saying something when she had otherwise good service.

Lisa

 

[westjones]

I try not to take things too much to heart unless there is obvious intent from the sender. In my experiences, I have noticed that people who are not from our culture do not always understand the same rules that we do in society.

I would have told my daughter (who is always VERY self conscious of the use of the word fat) that he didn't mean anything by it and that he isn't use to English casual conversation.

I understand the hurt feelings, and I know my daughter would have been hurt too (any of us would have been for that matter). But I like to think that most people do not intent to hurt or cause pain with their statements, often they just speak without thinking things through.

I hope your daughter and put this out of her mind and just remember the wonderful time you had on your trip. Perhaps this can be used as a lesson in understanding cultural differences. I had a friend from Russia once that said, "Things just go in one head and out the other" (meaning she didn't remember what was said and meant to comment: Things just went in one ear and out the other). She and I laughed about this for several years after I asked her just how many heads did she have!

So maybe you can help your daughter understand that when someone is not speaking in a native tongue they often choose the wrong words and statements (especially with slang) and it can often be embarrassing for the speaker as well as the reciever.

Just a thought.
DJ

 

[Buckaroo's Dad]

Hi Lumiere. Yes, in and of itself this is a strange comment for anyone to make. I have found it helpful to review the context in which any questionable statement is made since certain commentaries do not "stand-alone" well.

For example,

he said to my DD10, "try not to get too fat!".

Did he mean not to grow up too fast, such as 'don't get too big on me?'

he said "next time you come back, you be thin."

Was he referring to the generous meals on the ship and her enjoyment of them? That upon disembarking it is a return to our usual routines?

I'm not saying these are correct by any means. I am just asking these questions so you can perhaps re-evaluate the overall discussion.

Also, does your daughter have a weight problem at her young age? If so, in his own dumb way the CM might well have been expressing concern along with hope for the future.

 

[disneyholic family]

it's a cultural thing...
it was NOT an insult...
i live in a country where they talk like that..
they'll say to you, "oh my , you've gotten fat"...
they don't mean anything at all by it..
they're not being insulting...or rather they don't mean to be insulting...and in this society it 's not insulting to say something like that.....
of course no american would EVER say something like that in a million years (and all the americans expats who live here have a rousing good time laughing about things like this that are said to us..)

but to reiterate...the host did not mean anything bad by it..
in fact he was no doubt being affectionate in the remark...(philipinos are notorious for statements like this by the way....we have lots of philipinos where we live.....this sort of comment is run of the mill for them)..
anyway...
take it as the cultural difference that it was...and NOT an insult..

although i have to say , thank god your daughter didn't understand...
i'm now 47 years old but i STILL remeber the first time this happened to me..
when i was 12 years old...visiting the same country i live in now...
there was a woman i hadn't seen for a year and she said to me "you got fat"........i nearly dropped dead (remember...i was 12 and had in fact gotten fat, but i didn't need her to tell me that )...i hated her on the spot and have hated her with a passion ever since..
but of course she didn't mean anything by it....cultural differences....but i didn't understand that then....(i laugh about it now)....

 

[Lumiere999]

Buckaroo's Dad: I have given it much thought and I am most certain he didn't mean it as an insult. His whole tone and demeanor did not suggest anything negative or that he thought he was doing her the favor suggesting she not get too big. Actually she really isn't that "overweight" so much as she is just a big kid. At ten years old she wears the same size shoe as I do and she is almost 5' tall. The whole thing was just curious.

disneyholic family - I was hoping that this is what happened here. I'm so glad you replied. The way he was talking it was with great affection so it was hard to believe what was coming out of his mouth. I had also given him his tip envelope about an hour earlier and we went $50 above the recommended amount so when he knocked on the door to come in and wish us a safe trip he went on and on because I assume he was grateful. I would like to think he wouldn't start insulting us after that.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[mivvers]

I do think that this comment was inappropriate, although I would have chalked it up to a cultural difference, as other posters have mentioned. (That said, I can't say that the assumption that he was Filipino was completely appropriate either ... although it seems that many of the stateroom hosts are).

This reminds me of our cruise last January. When our stateroom host noticed the Do Not Disturb sign on in the middle of the afternoon, she asked if my DH was feeling OK. I said that he'd been having some stomach problems and was taking a rest. She said she thought so ... when she cleaned the toilet the day before she noticed the "stains". Yikes!! I did get a chuckle out of it though .. at poor DH's expense...

I'm so glad to hear that you had a wonderful time! It sounds like since your kids loved the host, he thought he could be familiar with them in the way that he might with younger cousins or something. I think you're right in assuming it wasn't an intentional insult. Thanks for this post!

 

[Buckaroo's Dad]

Just one more quick comment, Luminere. My DS9 is big for his age too. Over 5' and lanky. Yes, big feet for the age. I told him pretty soon his best friend's younger sister could bring one of his shoe boxes in to show-and-tell! We both laughed...

 

[Cruise]

Originally posted by Lisa F
Julie,

If you read the rest of my post, I think we are saying the same thing. He did not mean to insult her but he did make an inappropriate comment.

Lisa,

I guess I didn't state what I was trying to say very well

We do agree on that the CM didn't intend to be malicious or hurt this girl's feelings. It may be a cultural difference. However, by following the first comment with one that implies "you should change this," then it's assumed that he knows he's pointing out something that is "bad." In my book, when you point out another person's faults - that is, something you consider "bad" (without being asked for such advice), then you are in fact "insulting" them. If that's the case, I can't imagine why he thought it was acceptable to say something at all. If the comment had just been "don't get too fat," then it could have just been the cultural difference. To say "change this" implies that he's not pleased with the person.

We also agree that something probably have been said to this CM - not a big deal, just a comment made on the side. Lumiere seems to have handled this very well, but the next guest this CM encounters might not handle it as well and fly off into a rage. We've all seen raging people on our vacations By saying something directly to the CM, it might spare a nasty scene, a lower tip, or discipline from a superior. It's very easy to gently point out to someone that "while I know you didn't mean any harm by this, in English, this might be taken the wrong way."

In any case, Lumiere did ask what we would have done in the same situation, and that's what I would have done

Julie

 

[disneyholic family]

here's one a friend of mine got just the other day at work...
she'd just had her hair colored...it didn't come out so great (understatement...it was PURPLE)....
so naturally, when she came into work, the locals said to her, "WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR HAIR?????"
we just laughed....it was so predictable...
after a while you get used to it...
i don't even hear them anymore when they tell me i've gained weight (as if i haven't noticed it myself every time i get on the scale....)
they're just much more straightforward than we are...on the other hand, when they express affection you know they mean it...there's no ulterior motive...no finesse...just honest expressions of good feelings towards you....

 

[inkkognito]

Originally posted by Lisa F
I know lots of people go on about how CM's become friends etc... I'm sorry, but as long as we are in the position where we are paying and they are being paid by us, there are just certain lines that should not be crossed. I don't make my friends clean up my messes or serve me dinner (well only sometimes ;-) ) and I certainly don't pay them many thousands of dollars for the privilege of visiting their house.

Personally, I love becoming friends with crew members. In the course of so many Disney cruises, we have had the privilege of meeting and becoming friends with people from a variety of countries who we would never have met otherwise. The fact that we are paying to be on the ship doesn't enter into my decision to become friendly or to keep a distance...the only reason I'm the guest and they are the worker is that I had the extremely good fortune to be born in America with more economic opportunities. In my mind, that is pretty much the only difference between us.
As others have said, I have the feeling that the comment was a result of a cultural or language difference and was not meant as an insult. We had something similar happen once, in that our stateroom host directed all of his conversation to my husband...he was from a country where males are the dominant ones, so I'm sure that was why. It didn't bother me in this instance (not much does when we are on vacation!), but I know that some women would be offended, and understandably so. I'm sure it takes a while to learn the differences in culture when you are working on a ship and dealing with others for the first time.
Barb
Visit the Platinum Castaway Club at: www.castawayclub.com

 

[Lisa F]

I knew you'd answer that, but I think you're the exception. For me, it takes a while before someone becomes a "friend." Not a friendly acquaintance, but a true friend. I can see how someone who is on the boat every month or so might actually start to make friends there but for me, who will not be on the boat that much, the best I can muster is "friendly acquaintance."

A "Friend" can say anythign to me that they want. If I am gaining weight and they say to me "gee, you're getting fat" that's okay. I prefer that my friends be honest with me. On the other hand, there are many people from whom this comment would be entirely inappropriate.

I'm not saying that I'm better than the CM's on the cruise because for this particular week in our lives they are in the position of working for me and I am in the position of being a paying customer. I just think that when you are in that direct relationship, it's difficult to think of this person as your friend.

It's like my thesis chair. She is an absolutely wonderful person and we are very close in age. If we had met under any other circumstances I think that we could've been very good friends. Perhaps one day after this thesis nonsense if over, we still may be good friends. For right now, though, that relationship is not appropropriate. If we WERE friends, the way we act as friends would need to be put on hold. I don't know, maybe you think it's ridiculous that the only thing that separates us is that she is a few years older, began school a few years before me and hence almost has a PhD whereas I almost have a Master's.

Like I said, I'm not saying that I'm better than any of the CM on the cruises. Just that in a situation where you're expecting a service from someone, that person is not your friend. They can be friendly and you can be friendly back. I'm not looking down my nose at them or expecting them to lick my shoes because I am the allmighty paying customer and they are my servant. HOWEVER, it is not appropriate for them to say the same types of things to me that my friends might, and if they do, something should be said about it before they get themselves into real trouble by saying the wrong thing to the wrong person. I understand about cultural differences which is why I would not take offense but at the same time, but at the same time like I said, I would have a difficult time accepting service from someone who I considered to be a friend. I guess ymmv.

Lisa

 

[Dave_from_Marietta]

I fall somewhere in between Barb and Lisa. In fact during my "live" commentary while we were on the cruise, I had this to say about the friendship...

Last-night Madness also takes place in the dining rooms. Of course there was the photo frenzy, but this is also the time to distribute the tip vouchers in envelopes to our servers. Handshakes and hugs all around. I'll admit I was a skeptic when I first read the cruise brochure and read about the rotation dining system. There was a sentence about the servers rotating with you from restaurant to restaurant. My skeptical thought was along the lines of "yeah, that way you will really feel obligated to tip them at the end of the week." When people first get their cruise documents and turn to the page about the suggested tips, they tend to cringe. "Wow," they say. "This cruise is going to cost a lot more than I thought." Well, yes, that is true. But let me tell you, <b>by the end of the week, you really feel like you are friends with your servers. Admittedly, it is not a friendship of equal stature. If you don't like your servers, you can ruin their DCL careers with negative comments on the comment card.</b>

 

[trishy]

Lumiere999 - I would've done the exact same thing you did and afterward I would've wondered the exact same thing you did. Since the only choices really are to (1) write to DCL and complain about the CM or (2) chalk it up to cultural differences in the important category of "communication". We could all assume what he meant by making that comment - only he knows. I agree with you in your attitude of not letting the comment get the best of you.

I like Dave's mention of the friendship not being on equal stature - guess if they've become a terrific friend, they get "Excellent" on the card and if they're not they'll have to worry about getting just a plain 'ol "Good" or worse...

 

[4crusinransiers]

I have not read this whole thread but I agree its probably a cultural thing....We manage a high volume restaurant. We hire alot of people from different countrys (in our area its difficult to find help) We have several hispanic employees thet will say right out to me(thier Boss) In spanish" Por quey mucho gorda"
Which means why are you so FAT? Even though its a cultural thing it still hurts. I don't think that the stateroom host ment it to be mean nor do my employees.