Pandemonium in Pandora: Guest Fight

[Ghostridethedolewhip]

I first want to say I understand Disney cannot fully be held accountable for a fight between guests, notice I said fully. More on that later.


We were enjoying a great evening at Animal Kingdom this Saturday, June 23rd, making the best of an afternoon of thunderstorms. After watching the Tree of Life come alive we made our way to Pandora.


We were in front of the outdoor seating area of Satu'li Canteen when there was a lot of commotion and noise coming from up the walkway towards the entrance of Flight of Passage. Families were running down away from the area. Naturally my friend and I went to go see what was going on and there were 2 guests, males probably early to mid 20s, locked up physically arms and heads and yelling at each other. People that appeared to be with them were screaming at them to break it up. It looked like other guests that were there when it started were trying to keep people away and not have anyone get hurt inadvertently. There were a couple of Cast Members calling in for security. After about 2 minutes it broke up with both yelling at each other saying they would drop each other. One yelled the other had disrespected him all day, so it appeared they knew each other.

As they made there way down the hill towards Satu'li Canteen yelling at each other, they went to the outdoor eating area of Satu'li Canteen where their family or friends were sitting. While still yelling one went after the other and after being pulled away he picked up a chair to hit or throw it at the other guy. Thankfully others in the group grabbed him and the chair. The group they were with had children and even one in a stroller. One girl was about 12 and she was just crying her eyes out. Finally some others in the group restrained the one trying to throw the chair and dragged him out of there while the other fighter was still yelling.

Guests were going up to any Cast Members they could find (and there were virtually none in that area) asking them to call security during this entire fight. Someone in our group ran up to the window of Pongu Pongu and the Cast Member called security right away.

Finally , when both fighters were almost out of that area a security guard came in and a Cast Member was pointing the fighters out as they were quickly walking away.

Here are my issues.

1. Why isn’t there more security in the park, especially at night in such a dark area? From start of the fight to when security got there was a solid 7 minutes. I know at that time Rivers of Light is going on, but still, there should be at least 1 guard in each section of Pandora at all times. Like a lot of other things at Disney, the prices keep going up but the amount of staff in the parks keeps decreasing. What happened if the rest of the members in the party joined in, and a full scale brawl opened up. There were a lot of guests in those areas, and it takes security that long to show up? They should be adequately staffed to protect guests. At the most, security should have been there in 2 minutes and diffused the situation.
2. When security got there it was Barney Fife. He wasn’t going to stop those two guys or a chair being thrown or a brawl. I am not expecting Seal Team Six to come in, but there needs to be someone that can handle a physical situation and a bigger force when something like what happened is called in.
3. Disney can’t be responsible of all guest behavior, but it seems like the last 3-5 years the crowds are not the same. Maybe it is people in general, but the way people act at Disney, dress (I am talking about as close to profanity as your can get on shirts), talk to each other in their parties and other guests and Cast Members, it is starting to get where I feel I am at Busch Gardens. Maybe it would be better to pay $120 for an after hours event knowing I don’t have to deal with this behavior. Epcot is almost unbearable with the Drunks around the World. I know it isn’t everyone, and I like to have a good time, but it is noticeable over the last couple of years when walking around in general that it just doesn’t feel the same.

So what could Disney do in the future? They need more security in the park. The dog and pony show in the front is a deterrent, but in the park there needs to be more. We all know the later you get in the day and into the night at Disney, people are drained, and could have short fuses. It seemed like these two knew each other and whatever going on finally escalated, but to take that long to have security come to the situation, and I’m sorry, but Don Knotts wasn’t going to break up that fight.


My wife is very concerned what would happen on a large scale event based on the unacceptable response that we saw tonight. Disney needs to step up their game especially with all the new attractions and lands opening in the next couple of years. Thanks for listening to my rant but had to get it out before I write my email to the mouse.

 

[Happiest.Haunt_999]

 

[jbhodj]

Holy smokes that’s crazy. With Children present and adults behaving like this, totally unacceptable. And yea Barny showing up is gonna do very little. What if it had turned into an all out brawl? Good money to go to theme parks like Disney, you definitely should feel safe.

 

[jbhodj]

Im a firm believer that the majority of people walking around us daily are good people and same goes for Disney. For the millions that they have, thousands daily, clearly people in general are good people or we would see this behavior more. With that there are of course rotten apples and it only takes one to ruin a good time.

 

[UncleMike101]

Unfortunately the vast majority Security Personnel are neither trained, nor motivated, to engage people in physical confrontations.
The Security people do not have arrest powers but they can hold unruly guests for Law Enforcement if necessary.
WDW hires off duty Officers to work in the parks and if Law Enforcement action is needed they assume control and make arrests if necessary.
In addition Orange and Osceola County Deputies do have legal jurisdiction on Disney property.
It's a shame that these incidents occur at WDW but everyone should be aware that just because Disney puts on the Security show at the park entrances they are not free from potential violent behavior from some unhinged guest who may pick up a chair, or other object, and assault another guest.
The "no weapons" policy is only truly effective if they remove everyone's arms and legs so that they can't be used to beat or kick someone to death.

 

[matty624]

Wow, not a nice way to end a Saturday in AK. We've not been for a few years, so I'm hoping that the security at the entrance is better than it use to be, an elderly gentleman with a pointy stick!!! Still, even with (hopefully) no weapons getting into the parks, it would be nice to think that if something were to happen, the response from Disney would be a little more effective!
Matt

 

[palavra]

Unfortunately the vast majority Security Personnel are neither trained, nor motivated, to engage people in physical confrontations.
The Security people do not have arrest powers but they can hold unruly guests for Law Enforcement if necessary.
WDW hires off duty Officers to work in the parks and if Law Enforcement action is needed they assume control and make arrests if necessary.
In addition Orange and Osceola County Deputies do have legal jurisdiction on Disney property.
It's a shame that these incidents occur at WDW but everyone should be aware that just because Disney puts on the Security show at the park entrances they are not free from potential violent behavior from some unhinged guest who may pick up a chair, or other object, and assault another guest.
The "no weapons" policy is only truly effective if they remove everyone's arms and legs so that they can't be used to beat or kick someone to death.

You are almost right about WDW security. Actually, WDW security is no allowed to break up a fight. They can secure and area as best they can, and remove other guests from the area, but they cannot physically intervene in a fight or they could lose their job. Blame that on lawsuits. You are incorrect that many security personnel are not trained well. Most come from a law enforcement and/or military background. Only a police officer is allowed to ahndle a guest in any way. Disney security are instructed not to touch guests at all.

 

[snowwhite84]

Maybe it would be better to pay $120 for an after hours event knowing I don’t have to deal with this behavior.

This does sound concerning, but why would paying $120 for an after hours event ensure you don’t see anyone get into a fight?

 

[Allison]

You lost me at #3.

 

[Mome Rath]

So, should guests then call 911 as well as alerting cast members. I would be interested to know what happened to the fighters, if they were escorted out, and banned or what.

 

[Ghostridethedolewhip]

You lost me at #3.

People and behaviors change over time. You have to adapt. People do not behave like they did 20, 10,or even 5 years ago. Events occur and that is why we have that security in the front of the parks. Should Disney change all security because of this event? No. But I consistently see more and more behavior at a level that I did not see in years past.

Could people still get out of hand at a $120 after hours event? Sure. But at that point you might be attracting more Disney fans that are there to be a part of the magic and understand it is a place for families and to have fun. Not a place to act however you want. But that is unfortunely the way things are trending. Yes Disney costs more than most places (Busch Gardens) and we talk about them pricing people out. But the parks are still packed. There are still afordable deal, although not for everyone, a FL resident 3 day for like 179 and longer stay tickets and less per day. What I was getting is maybe it would be better attending and event that have a large price increase per Day and have less people there, those that are there for the right reasons, with better security to help ensure a better experience. If that is the case there is no more use for my annual pass.

It is like a baseball team having $1 beer night. There will be more drinking and which could cause a more rowdy crowd. I’ve been to those over the years and have seen it. You need to be staffed to cover that since the team just changed the environment. I know Disney does not have dollar beer night, but it’s seems that behavior in general for some has deteriorate. Maybe it is more of a combination of identifying what kind of environment Disney is setting along with the change in guest behaviors, but also recognizing and they need to adapt and have action plans in place that fit situations like that which occurred.

I had a feeling that security would not get involved physically to break up a fight, but then how long would it take law enforcement to reach that area? Things can get way out of hand in 7 minutes. Again, with the anticipated increase in attendance as more lands and attractions open up in the next couple of years, I would hope there would be consideration to make sure staffing and security are adequate to match how the Disney environment is evolving.

 

[UncleMike101]

So, should guests then call 911 as well as alerting cast members. I would be interested to know what happened to the fighters, if they were escorted out, and banned or what.

I would................
Just treat WDW as you would any other city and react to situations accordingly.

 

[Allison]

No, I still don't agree with your concept of money keeping the people out you don't want to be around. Money doesn't buy class or manners.

But, that's okay. We all have different views on different situations.

 

[snowwhite84]

I still don’t see how a more expensive event gets you people that understand Disney “is a place for families and to have fun. Not a place to act however you want.”

A $1 beer night would attract more people interested in buying inexpensive beer, sure. But a more expensive event just attracts more people willing to spend money on extra events, which doesn’t necessarily equate to a certain type of person.

 

[mom2rtk]

No, I still don't agree with your concept of money keeping the people out you don't want to be around. Money doesn't buy class or manners.

But, that's okay. We all have different views on different situations.

Besides, it's not like they're giving away passes to visit during the day.

I can believe though that the after hours event might be less crowded. So that might help keep things less stressful, so perhaps less likely for a fight to break out.

 

[maxiesmom]

Are you not aware of what most "security" is allowed and not allowed to do? Where I work it is a mostly female force, and no way are they allowed to get in the middle of a fight. That is when you call the police.

I can't say as I have ever seen a fight at WDW, and I've been going for over 20 years now. It seems to be very rare, and not something that necessitates an overhaul in how Disney handles things. Just my 2 cents.

I will say, they should have thrown the guys out after the first go round. Not let them remain.

 

[Ghostridethedolewhip]

Are you not aware of what most "security" is allowed and not allowed to do? Where I work it is a mostly female force, and no way are they allowed to get in the middle of a fight. That is when you call the police.

I can't say as I have ever seen a fight at WDW, and I've been going for over 20 years now. It seems to be very rare, and not something that necessitates an overhaul in how Disney handles things. Just my 2 cents.

I will say, they should have thrown the guys out after the first go round. Not let them remain.

I work at a bank and our armed guards are mainly there as a deterred for robberies. Our staff is instructed that if someone comes in follow their instructions and do not alert the armed guard. Now if we have an unruly customer or something like a fight they are there and trained to break it up until law enforcement is called in.

I do not think an overhaul is needed because if this situation but I am questioning the response to this and what would happen if this was on a larger scale, especially with the crowds that are expected in gearing up for the openings in the next couple of years.

 

[maxiesmom]

I work at a bank and our armed guards are mainly there as a deterred for robberies. Our staff is instructed that if someone comes in follow their instructions and do not alert the armed guard. Now if we have an unruly customer or something like a fight they are there and trained to break it up until law enforcement is called in.

I do not think an overhaul is needed because if this situation but I am questioning the response to this and what would happen if this was on a larger scale, especially with the crowds that are expected in gearing up for the openings in the next couple of years.

If you mean for Star Wars and MK's 50, I would expect Disney will amp up their force for both.

 

[DizneyMommy]

Wow. I’ve seen serious security descend en masse on way less exciting stuff at DL.

At DL Anaheim PD has a substation literally at the park. With canines. I have never felt unsafe there and security is very visible. Anaheim PD could have run to anywhere in the park in under 7 minutes if they wanted to.

Last week at WDW, we rarely saw security outside of bag check, and one canine outside of Epcot early one morning. And those we did see were much more Barney than The Rock. It had me wondering. I’d think with the heat, the alcohol included on the dining plan now, and the crowds, that they would step it up and be a little more visible and present than they appeared. That’s a bad combination!

 

[Mome Rath]

Wow. I’ve seen serious security descend en masse on way less exciting stuff at DL.

At DL Anaheim PD has a substation literally at the park. With canines. I have never felt unsafe there and security is very visible. Anaheim PD could have run to anywhere in the park in under 7 minutes if they wanted to.

Last week at WDW, we rarely saw security outside of bag check, and one canine outside of Epcot early one morning. And those we did see were much more Barney than The Rock. It had me wondering. I’d think with the heat, the alcohol included on the dining plan now, and the crowds, that they would step it up and be a little more visible and present than they appeared. That’s a bad combination!

We went to DL for the first time last year, and that is one of the main things I noticed; they don't put up with near the amount of... sass or unruly behavior like they do in WDW. I liked it. lol