Parents, would you be okay with this?

[FlightlessDuck]

Hmmm. I'm not sure. I know our daughter would have been scared to death to sing in front of class in fifth grade. Heck, she didn't like it in 12th grade, either.

 

[design_mom]

When I was in grade school, our choir teacher pulled me out to sing solo because someone was "flat" and she thought it was me. It wasn't me, because I had been lip-synching (I know I am not a good singer), but of course I couldn't admit to that. So I sang... Flat, as usual, and she announced to the class that I had been the one who'd ruined it. That was embarrassing.

That being said, my daughter's 5th grade music teacher routinely makes the kids sing solo in front of the class -- not for punishment, just because she thinks it's good for them (kind of like public speaking, I guess). She has done it since they were first graders. The kids never know when they are going to get picked (she pulls numbers out of a cup), so they better know what they are doing.

I was shocked at the first grade recital when each child got up and sang solo. My daughter had told me the song she was going to sing, but I didn't realize she was going to sing it solo! Throughout the years, they also do keyboard, recorder, and guitar solos.

 

[richmond282]

I'm a band director. I teach beginners. They play by themselves in front of the class ALL the time. Sometimes it's b/c I think they aren't participating. Sometimes it's b/c I need to hear them play so I can determine what they need help with. Sometimes its b/c they were assigned to work on something and now have a playing quiz. I start them out playing individually from day one. I make sure no other students make any negative comments etc. I give constructive criticism and move on. No one (student or parent) has ever complained or voiced any sort of concern about it.

The other 2 band directors in the school system routinely record their students playing individually and in an ensemble. They also play it back for students to hear. (I don't b/c I don't have the technology to do so).

 

[Ceila]

I'm a band director. I teach beginners. They play by themselves in front of the class ALL the time. Sometimes it's b/c I think they aren't participating. Sometimes it's b/c I need to hear them play so I can determine what they need help with. Sometimes its b/c they were assigned to work on something and now have a playing quiz. I start them out playing individually from day one. I make sure no other students make any negative comments etc. I give constructive criticism and move on. No one (student or parent) has ever complained or voiced any sort of concern about it.

The other 2 band directors in the school system routinely record their students playing individually and in an ensemble. They also play it back for students to hear. (I don't b/c I don't have the technology to do so).

But, there's a world of difference between band and music class (and yes, I was in band from 3rd grade through college). Band is an elective, and through practice just about anybody can play their instrument. Based on what the OP wrote, it sounds like she's talking about basic, required, music class, and there are people who just can't sing. To force them to do so in front of their peers is a jerk move.

 

[mefordis]

But, there's a world of difference between band and music class (and yes, I was in band from 3rd grade through college). Band is an elective, and through practice just about anybody can play their instrument. Based on what the OP wrote, it sounds like she's talking about basic, required, music class, and there are people who just can't sing. To force them to do so in front of their peers is a jerk move.

Yes, it is a required class and the teacher DOES single them out and makes them get in front of the class to sing solo if she suspects the student isn't paying attention or lip syncing. All I can do is hope my daughter doesn't become one of her victims.

It just struck me as wrong when I heard about it.

 

[KiminChicago]

This didn't happen to me, it happened to my best friend. I went to a very small religious school so our teacher taught everything, including art and music. We were in 7th grade and our class was practicing a song that we were to sing in church on Sunday when our teacher decided that someone was singing off-key. He insisted that it was my friend and he wanted her to sing solo. She did not want to but he kept brow-beating her until she did. She was crying and so embarrassed that she could barely get the notes out. I was standing next to her and I was terrified that he would decide that I was the one off-key. He humiliated my friend and I was so hurt and angry for her.

By the next school year my friend's parents had moved her to public school. I never told my parents what happened, but I had the same teacher for 8th grade and I had absolutely no respect for him and did whatever I could to oppose him (I even wrote an essay about why I hated school and was amazed that he didn't recognize himself in my description of a bad teacher). This happened 40 years ago and I still get angry when I think about it. I finally told my mom about it a few years ago and she said she wished I had said something when it happened. She knew that I wasn't happy at that school but she had no idea why -- everyone thought that teacher was such a great guy.

Based on my experience, I'd be worried that it is more like bullying than a great teaching tool.

 

[Diznygrl]

I'd have a hard time calling this an exercise in humiliation. There was a lot of stuff I was required to do in school that I "didn't like", such as working out math problems on the chalkboard in front of the whole class (I am TERRIBLE at math), or making speeches or other oral presentations (deathly afraid of public speaking). But that's life.

 

[Sparkly]

um, never mind.

 

[sam_gordon]

Those who think this is humiliating the kids and shouldn't be done...

Should kids not be required to do in class readings? Math problems at the chalkboard? Project presentations? What's the difference?

 

[lauradis]

Well, it is a mandated class and some people do not like to sing. My daughter told me about this because one kid got teary eyed and red faced and she said she felt bad for him. It kind of reminds me of the whole dunce cap in the corner type thing.

Maybe that kid will tell his parents and they will talk to the teacher, who knows.

Well dishes and laundry are mandatory for eating and staying non naked.

I hate doing both dishes and laundry, but hey that is life sometimes we have to do things we don't like.

 

[SirDuff]

Those who think this is humiliating the kids and shouldn't be done...

Should kids not be required to do in class readings? Math problems at the chalkboard? Project presentations? What's the difference?

Or anything in gym class for those of us with absolutely no athletic ability?

We had to do solo singing in music class (whether or not we were caught lip syncing). I hated it (I am awful at singing), but I understood why I had to do it - how else could the teacher grade my ability? The full mark wasn't based on this, but it definitely made sense to judge singing ability in music class (which was all based on vocal music, not instruments which were separate).

 

[sunshinehighway]

Yes, it is a required class and the teacher DOES single them out and makes them get in front of the class to sing solo if she suspects the student isn't paying attention or lip syncing. All I can do is hope my daughter doesn't become one of her victims.

It just struck me as wrong when I heard about it.

One of her victims? I think you should think about it in a different way. Would you feel the same way about a reading teacher asking a child to read aloud in front of the class? How about a math teacher calling up that kid who had his head on his desk to the board to do a math problem?

 

[bdcp]

It is a music class. She and the rest of her peers will have to get up in front of many classes and do things they aren't comfortable with. It's part of life and 5th grade is a good time to learn that before they develop too many fears of public speaking, etc. As another poster said, I'd tell her don't lip-sync

And, BTW, I can't carry a tune, but had to participate in music classes up through elementary school because it was required. Back when we all sucked it up and did what was required without complaining to our parents because they would just tell us to listen to our teachers.

I can understand the teacher's viewpoint with some kids today who think they don't have to listen to the teacher because mom and dad have told their child that. There's always a few in every class.

The teacher needs to be able to evaluate each child's progress. They can't grade on ability in a class that requires an ability that not everyone is born with but they can evaluate progress and effort.

 

[Poohforyou]

1st off I wouldn't take the word of my child to be the gospel truth. Not that I would think my child would necessarily lie to be about something like this but rather that she wouldn't know all the details.

As for what the teacher is doing, I don't see it as any different that a reading teacher asking a not so good reader to read out loud or a math teacher asking a not so good math student to figure out a problem on the board.

I imagine we've all had to deal with situations like this. As parents were doing our children a disservice by not teaching them how to cope in difficult situations but rather run to their aid every time the going gets rough.

A 5th grader should be able to handle themselves. Middle school will be rough if all they know is being coddled.

 

[clarabelle]

I think it depends on the goal. If you are out to punish a child for not participating then this is a way to do it.
If you want them to learn about music, enjoy the class -then I think there might be better ways.

I think the biggest difference between doing this and a math problem is math seems like something you can correct- I am not so sure about singing? Some people are just tone deaf.

Actually if I were a teacher I am not sure I would call a child that I knew was struggling with math to do a problem on the board either. I think you would learn more one on one or some other way where you didn't have the added stress of everyone watching you.

 

[ICF]

It's a music class and the teacher expects kids to sing??? Oh the horror......

What's next, making a kid do math problems in math????

 

[sunshinehighway]

I think it depends on the goal. If you are out to punish a child for not participating then this is a way to do it.
If you want them to learn about music, enjoy the class -then I think there might be better ways.

I think the biggest difference between doing this and a math problem is math seems like something you can correct- I am not so sure about singing? Some people are just tone deaf.

Actually if I were a teacher I am not sure I would call a child that I knew was struggling with math to do a problem on the board either. I think you would learn more one on one or some other way where you didn't have the added stress of everyone watching you.

You're changing the situation. The op says the kids have to sing solo if they are not participating or paying attention. That's much different than calling the kids up because you know they are struggling.

Yeah, if the teacher was just singling out kids who are struggling so everyone can laugh at them, it'd be a totally different situation.

Also, I understand some kids and people are very sensitive but learning to take things in stride and laugh at yourself is a good lesson. Every little awkward moment or embarrassment does not turn into a kid being bullied and tormented by their peers.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think it depends on the goal. If you are out to punish a child for not participating then this is a way to do it.
If you want them to learn about music, enjoy the class -then I think there might be better ways.

I think the biggest difference between doing this and a math problem is math seems like something you can correct- I am not so sure about singing? Some people are just tone deaf.

Actually if I were a teacher I am not sure I would call a child that I knew was struggling with math to do a problem on the board either. I think you would learn more one on one or some other way where you didn't have the added stress of everyone watching you.

Let's abolish gym class then. Think of all the stress these poor kids are under when they have to make a basket playing basketball, hit a ball playing softball or baseball, catch a ball in football, or run around the track. AND everyone else is watching? The horror!

 

[Kogo Shuko]

I look at it from my own childhood experience:

When I was in 6th grade, we were learning to play instruments. I chose the trumpet. But it turned out I couldn't play very well, and so I faked it. I'd just press the proper keys, and silently blow through it because I couldn't actually reach the notes.

Eventually, one day, the trombone player told the music teacher, and I was constantly forced to play by myself.

In order to not be humiliated in class, as I felt at the time I was, I brought the trumpet home every single night and practiced until something finally clicked and I figured out how to change the tone by tightening or loosening my lips.

I later went on to become the lead trumpet of a concert band, stage band, and the cadet marching band. I went to summer-long band courses for two years in a row, where I was second trumpet, and first trumpet, consecutively.

To this day (I've been playing trumpet for about 18 years now), I still play Last Post for Remembrance Day (Veterans' Day), at a school in my hometown. They pay me to do it.

If my teacher had not singled me out back in grade six, I know music would not have become one of my most loved subjects. I would not have excelled in it the way I did.

Quite frankly, as an adult, I'm thankful that my teacher forced me to play while the entire class watched and listened. It gave me the inspiration to prove to everyone that I could actually do it.

***

Music teachers get hit on both sides. Many kids and parents think of music as a "mickey mouse course" as my mother so often called it. A course where no one can fail, because it's not a real class. And yet when the teacher actually tries to practice regular teaching methods, suddenly they're such horrible people.

I don't get it.

 

[elphaba91]

I have to say I disagree with the teacher's method. At school I loved music, played an instrument in a band, was in several (auditioned) choirs and musicals. Music was a big part of my identity and it brought me a lot of happiness and even allowed me to travel the world. However, while music was a necessity for me, it isn't for a lot of kids and certainly isn't as essential to education as reading or maths or to life in general as PE (promoting a healthy lifestyle, etc.). Consequently, I don't see any good reason to force kids to participate, and certainly not to humiliate them in the process. I can only see this making kids hate and fear music, and to see singing a solo as a punishment. While I enjoyed singing and was pretty good at it, I hated singing by myself in front of small groups and this would have put me right off music altogether. I think the teacher needs to find ways to make the kids enjoy singing and actually want to perform - whether it be through having songs the kids enjoy, rewarding good behaviour or allowing kids to perform something of their own choice, either solo or in a small group. If lip synching continues to be a problem, she could get the suspects to stand in front, spreading the kids out further and wandering around the room or getting smaller groups to sing the solo (e.g, just the boys, or just the 2nd row, etc.). I think her current technique is borderline bullying and will put kids off music long term, which would be a real shame.