Paying for home owners insurance in Florida

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I tried to mention to y'all that replacing of roofs isn't necessarily location dependent. With the insurance company I worked on roofs approaching 20 years were often targeted for letters sent to replace, this was nationwide not particular to one place or another (roofing material dependent of course). You may not have hail damage like some parts of the U.S. but you can have sun damage. Granular loss is a big one between sun and wind. Flat roofs and tar materials, etc need constant attention as well. It's just about the realistic expected lifespan. Insurance companies are trying to in essence use preventative tactics. An older roof can be prone to leaks as just an example. My mom's roof wasn't too too old but she had some damage that caused a leak, the insurance company paid for repair not replacement (as it didn't need a full replacement yet) and then they paid for water damage repair to the inside of the house. Repairs can still cost a pretty penny. While wood roofs are not nearly as common curling of the shingles is a known problem with those.

People may not realize but insurance companies from time to time also reinspect homes. That is one way you can cancel a policy once you're past discovery period too. I dealt with that a lot in underwriting. And it doesn't take a claim to do that reinspection either.

 

[greeneyedchick]

It's not even just the taxes. It's the upkeep and maintenance too. A house is a liability. It pulls money out of your wallet every year, even after you have paid off the loan (for which you also paid tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars extra in interest).

People like to look at what their house is "worth" after so many years and forget to add in all the interest, taxes, and maintenance they paid along the way. If you eventually sell the house, you MIGHT recoup some of that, but usually you will break even, if that, on the total cost of ownership over the time you lived there (when adding in all the taxes, maintenance, etc). It's not just about the price tag on the house when you bought it. This is the biggest financial mistake people make when they buy a house: ignoring the total cost to own it.

That's a great point! Each time we've bought and sold, we've compared the cost was paid for the house versus how much we sold it for. We never factored in the mortgage interest, property taxes and insurance. We did factor in major renovations.

 

[georgina]

Well, but if you only break even in overall costs when selling a home, you had somewhere to live for 20 or 30 years while not paying rent. I get it, buying vs renting is an individual situation, it's definitely not one size fits all.

 

[greeneyedchick]

I asked this before, but you expected your insurance to replace your roof? To me that's a normal wear item, other than a hurricane damaging a fairly new room.

I read that as they had to replace the roof because of how old it was (the insurance company required them to replace it) even though there wasn't anything wrong with the roof. Insurance companies here are forcing people to replace perfectly fine roofs or roofs that could be repaired. That's a huge ask for a lot of us. It will cost us over $100,000 to replace mine.

 

[greeneyedchick]

2 cars here. $789/year. I was surprised when we got rid of DH’s 15 year old Buick SUV and leased an EV in the last few weeks, our annual car premium went up by $1. We don’t drive a lot though, so low mileage. Homeowners on our townhouse a little less than $1000 per year and we also have an umbrella policy with the same insurer, I think it’s about $400.

(but then our property taxes are about 11,000/year)

May I ask what state you live in? Those numbers sound wonderfully affordable...

 

[tvguy]

I read that as they had to replace the roof because of how old it was (the insurance company required them to replace it) even though there wasn't anything wrong with the roof. Insurance companies here are forcing people to replace perfectly fine roofs or roofs that could be repaired. That's a huge ask for a lot of us. It will cost us over $100,000 to replace mine.

Yeah, and I still fail to see in normal circumstances why the insurance company would care. A reasonable person is going to fix or replace a roof at the first sign of a leak, when damage isn't likely to even meet the insurance deductible.

 

[georgina]

May I ask what state you live in? Those numbers sound wonderfully affordable...

If you hover over the name on the side it will tell you we live in Alexandria, VA. Not a low cost area by any means. Our insurance agent was recommended to our DD by her real estate agent, he represents Travelers but seems to do more business insurance overall than individuals.

I'm not sure if the cost has much to do with the fact that we are older and retired. It was surprising to me when we moved here 2 years ago that the insured value of the townhouse is only about half of what we paid for it. When we lived in single family homes the insured value was more in line with the actual cost of the house. The roof area is small, but 4 stories off the ground, it cost us less than $9000 to replace last year. The same roofer has done almost all the roofs in the community, a specific brand and color of shingle is required by the HOA, so there may have been a volume discount!

 

[SL6827]

Heard that the prices of a new roof is now skyrocketing just because they can. They know they can do this because of the situation.

 

[tarheel618]

To give you an idea of how insane the rates are: we live in north central florida (about 2 hours north of Disney) I 75 corridor in a 1196 square foot house, no where near a beach and not in a flood zone. My renewal for this year is 5200.00 Last year it was right under 4200.00. My car insurance 3 cars (with 2 teen drivers (20 year old and 17 year old) is 600 a month). Insurance in Florida is insane. We have about 10 years till we retire and we are considering moving north as Fl has become to expensive to live in.

 

[shh]

I had 30 yr warranty Shingles on my roof prior to being forced to replace. My roof was 17 yrs old. I had several estimates and they all said the same, it was ashamed what insurance companies were doing to us with older roofs that were in good shape. If I did not replace my roof, my insurance company was going to drop me. They forced me to purchase and pay for something I did not need just to keep my insurance

I empathize - but one tiny silver lining. That 30 year shingle warranty is not applicable to intense climates like Florida. Most inspectors and construction folks (and I'm not talking about biased insurers or roofers) say the average lifespan of an asphalt shingle roof is closer to 18-20 years in Florida. So honestly, yours was likely nearing end of life in the next couple of years anyway. I know that doesn't help all that much - as I'm annoyed by all this as well. But honestly, it's rare to get more than 20 years lifespan.

You know what really blows? (Ha - no pun intended.) Read the fine print on your shingle warranty. You get a brand new roof with a 5 , 7 or 10 year leak/damage warranty. BUT if a tropical storm or something stronger hits - even weeks later -, the warranty is void at that point. At least that's what every shingle warranty stated that I reviewed when I was getting roofing quotes.

 

[shh]

As I posted upthread, I have never heard of an insurance company dictating a new roof.

That's because you don't live in Florida. It's absolutely true here - listen to the residents.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I empathize - but one tiny silver lining. That 30 year shingle warranty is not applicable to intense climates like Florida. Most inspectors and construction folks (and I'm not talking about biased insurers or roofers) say the average lifespan of an asphalt shingle roof is closer to 18-20 years in Florida. So honestly, yours was likely nearing end of life in the next couple of years anyway. I know that doesn't help all that much - as I'm annoyed by all this as well. But honestly, it's rare to get more than 20 years lifespan.

It's even less, like usually only a few years, in Oklahoma due to tornadoes and storms. When I was at the insurance company and looked at OK policies it wasn't as common to have higher grade roofs because they'd be replacing them in several years.

I sympathize with y'all but I just want y'all to understand while some things are unique to FL not everything is. 20 years as I have stated several times in this thread was about the limit for the insurance company I worked for nationwide (they didn't write their preferred insurance company in FL for a reason). So yes you'll have some issues that some places aren't experiencing as much but it's not as if FL is the only place that has frequent roof replacement requests from the insurance company or unscrupulous fly by night roofing companies who swoop in after storms to scam people. IME it happens in plenty of other places. And other states have insurance companies that pull out. My state and the one next to me years ago for one AAA actually opted to not have anymore independent agents (going the route of captive agents) and so I actually had to switch insurance companies entirely as they pulled out for independent agents (which mine was my step-father-in-law who was an independent agent). AAA is still around here but you can only get it through agents only writing exclusively for AAA (captive agents).

 

[tvguy]

That's because you don't live in Florida. It's absolutely true here - listen to the residents.

No, I see that. I just don't see why they have any say in your roof since they won't replace a roof if it leaks.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No, I see that. I just don't see why they have any say in your roof since they won't replace a roof if it leaks.

Well that's not true, didn't you see my comment about my mom's roof? She had damage due to the roof (caused by a storm) which caused an interior leak and yes the insurance paid for it.

A claims adjustor is going to go look for if the leak is caused due to wear and tear and it's not always the case that it's that way. As roofs age they are more susceptible to the elements and that's primarily what they are trying to prevent.

I saw many homes cancelled usually during the initial discovery period but sometimes due to reinspections (so done as a decline legal notice or a non-renewal). for needing to paint siding due to exposed wood, sometimes full on wood rot sometimes not. Painting fascia was another one as well. Replace stucco,, etc. It's all about the insurance company attempting to lessen by preventative care your chance of filing a claim. I couldn't tell you how many photos I looked at of people having stuff like this that they needed to repair in order to have the insurance company cover them. It was a lot

 

[barkley]

It will cost us over $100,000 to replace mine.

if you don't mind sharing-what in the world kind of single family home costs $100K to replace a roof? i have some insanely nice (and large) custom homes in my neighborhood, some with slate roofs but none would cost 6 figures for the roof alone.

 

[tvguy]

Well that's not true, didn't you see my comment about my mom's roof? She had damage due to the roof (caused by a storm) which caused an interior leak and yes the insurance paid for it.

A claims adjustor is going to go look for if the leak is caused due to wear and tear and it's not always the case that it's that way. As roofs age they are more susceptible to the elements and that's primarily what they are trying to prevent.

I saw many homes cancelled usually during the initial discovery period but sometimes due to reinspections (so done as a decline legal notice or a non-renewal). for needing to paint siding due to exposed wood, sometimes full on wood rot sometimes not. Painting fascia was another one as well. Replace stucco,, etc. It's all about the insurance company attempting to lessen by preventative care your chance of filing a claim. I couldn't tell you how many photos I looked at of people having stuff like this that they needed to repair in order to have the insurance company cover them. It was a lot

Yes, I understand that if the roof is damage by a storm that it would be covered and interior damage. I just don't see the logic in throwing away a sound roof when a brand new roof would likely suffer the same damage.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, I understand that if the roof is damage by a storm that it would be covered and interior damage. I just don't see the logic in throwing away a sound roof when a brand new roof would likely suffer the same damage.

Well I already explained that in prior comments

It's not guaranteed it'd suffer the same damage. Granular loss, heat damage, wind damage, curling (for wood roofs), hail damage which weakens shingles even cracking them and many more things can affect your roof. And as they age there's an increased risk of these and the severity of it.

I gave the example of Oklahoma where homeowners that I saw were less likely to put in upgraded roofing materials because they had a higher chance of damage such that it wasn't the most financial decision depending on where you live.

Each insurance company has their own guidelines to follow based on their own CAT losses over the years, their own stats, their own customer bases.

"sound roof" is not what the insurance company can look at, that's like your mechanic saying "yeah your breaks are fine....now that is". They have to look at the usable life left in a roof and try to catch it before you make that claim, it's their job to do this, to mitigate the losses. And you as an insured need insurance companies to do this because if no insurance company ever cared about this stuff you'd be paying even more in insurance costs than you already do.

 

[tvguy]

Well I already explained that in prior comments

It's not guaranteed it'd suffer the same damage. Granular loss, heat damage, wind damage, curling (for wood roofs), hail damage which weakens shingles even cracking them and many more things can affect your roof. And as they age there's an increased risk of these and the severity of it.

I gave the example of Oklahoma where homeowners that I saw were less likely to put in upgraded roofing materials because they had a higher chance of damage such that it wasn't the most financial decision depending on where you live.

Each insurance company has their own guidelines to follow based on their own CAT losses over the years, their own stats, their own customer bases.

"sound roof" is not what the insurance company can look at, that's like your mechanic saying "yeah your breaks are fine....now that is". They have to look at the usable life left in a roof and try to catch it before you make that claim, it's their job to do this, to mitigate the losses. And you as an insured need insurance companies to do this because if no insurance company ever cared about this stuff you'd be paying even more in insurance costs than you already do.

Sorry, missed that in the 137 posts.
Only casual exposure I have to this is with my in laws house in Southeast Texas when Rita blew the roof off. It was 20 years old and insurance covered it fully after the deductible. HOWEVER, I believe they said the adjuster determined the winds came under the eaves and lifted the underlayment with the roof attached off. That could be the difference.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sorry, missed that in the 137 posts.
Only casual exposure I have to this is with my in laws house in Southeast Texas when Rita blew the roof off. It was 20 years old and insurance covered it fully after the deductible. HOWEVER, I believe they said the adjuster determined the winds came under the eaves and lifted the underlayment with the roof attached off. That could be the difference.

There's two different topics. For the immediate conversation an insurance company isn't refusing to cover a loss if your roof is X years old just on the basis of its age and age alone but rather with the immediate topic of conversation they reserve the right (well adhering to DOI--Department of Insurance--regulations) to review someone's policy and determine if a roof is near the end of it's life and take action on that.

So a homeowner could say "well my roof is fine" and the insurance company may agree with that but also be saying "yes but the roof is nearing the end of its lifespan" If you think about it it's going to be pretty rare that someone's roof is in pristine condition. So take my mechanic/breaks scenario your breaks are fine, they don't need to be replaced quite yet according to the mechanic but you may realistically only have 6 months to a year left on them (random numbers).

I've got a 40 or 50 year roof (can't remember) and I do not expect it to last that long nor is it meant to, that's not what the term means. But it is made of more durable material than a more standard roof. And the HOA requires the 40 or 50 year roof. I can tell you even though the oldest homes in this neighborhood date back to only 2005 people have needed repairs and replacements in our neighborhood even on newer homes primarily due to the weather. I did hear of one home that needed repairs due to incorrect valley construction by the roofers who initially installed it though.

Just for kicks I did a tad bit of research and this is what I revisited from my insurance days "In the past, a 3 tab shingle had an estimated lifetime of around 20 years. Sometimes, you could hold out and avoid replacing your roof until it was as old as 25-years. But, in general, contractors knew that when your roof was between 15 to 20 years old, you should have it inspected for potential replacement." This is still going to be the case for a lot of homeowners who either haven't replaced their existing roofs with newer more durable materials as technologies have improved or didn't pay for the higher rated ones. And depending on someone's area it's possible that a higher rated roof still needs replacement quicker than one thinks after repeated exposures to things.

 

[tvguy]

There's two different topics. For the immediate conversation an insurance company isn't refusing to cover a loss if your roof is X years old just on the basis of its age and age alone but rather with the immediate topic of conversation they reserve the right (well adhering to DOI--Department of Insurance--regulations) to review someone's policy and determine if a roof is near the end of it's life and take action on that.

So a homeowner could say "well my roof is fine" and the insurance company may agree with that but also be saying "yes but the roof is nearing the end of its lifespan" If you think about it it's going to be pretty rare that someone's roof is in pristine condition. So take my mechanic/breaks scenario your breaks are fine, they don't need to be replaced quite yet according to the mechanic but you may realistically only have 6 months to a year left on them (random numbers).

I've got a 40 or 50 year roof (can't remember) and I do not expect it to last that long nor is it meant to, that's not what the term means. But it is made of more durable material than a more standard roof. And the HOA requires the 40 or 50 year roof. I can tell you even though the oldest homes in this neighborhood date back to only 2005 people have needed repairs and replacements in our neighborhood even on newer homes primarily due to the weather. I did hear of one home that needed repairs due to incorrect valley construction by the roofers who initially installed it though.

Just for kicks I did a tad bit of research and this is what I revisited from my insurance days "In the past, a 3 tab shingle had an estimated lifetime of around 20 years. Sometimes, you could hold out and avoid replacing your roof until it was as old as 25-years. But, in general, contractors knew that when your roof was between 15 to 20 years old, you should have it inspected for potential replacement." This is still going to be the case for a lot of homeowners who either haven't replaced their existing roofs with newer more durable materials as technologies have improved or didn't pay for the higher rated ones. And depending on someone's area it's possible that a higher rated roof still needs replacement quicker than one thinks after repeated exposures to things.

My subdivision was built 1977-1979. Some houses with wood shingle roofs like mine. I've replaced my roof twice in the 40 years I've owned the house, the house is 44 years old. I have asphalt shingles now. The other houses all have tile roofs. All but one still have their original roofs. The one that doesn't was just sold and the new owner thought the tile was ugly and put an asphalt shingles.