Poll: When do you think Europe will open again?

[_auroraborealis_]

The reality is that even if travel within Europe is okay, DCL doesn't operate without a healthy influx of Americans. If countries are requiring quarantine and enforcing, that will be a huge issue.

 

[bavaria]

Yes, many countries (including all in the EU) have banned US citizens. If you have dual citizenship, you're exempt from that ban. I believe there are some other exemptions like military, etc. And some non EU countries will allow US citizens with a 2 week quarantine upon arrival.

Somehow, the celebrities still seem to be able to make it into the EU without restrictions.

Again, the information posted is not correct. As just one example, Croatia, an EU member state, permits US citizens to enter without quarantine. A negative test is required, and proof of accommodation. There are many countries which are now 'open' around the world, including to Americans, without quarantine on arrival.

This website is not the right place to obtain accurate information, nor has it ever been, in regards to specific travel policies.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Again, the information posted is not correct. As just one example, Croatia, an EU member state, permits US citizens to enter without quarantine. A negative test is required, and proof of accommodation. There are many countries which are now 'open' around the world, including to Americans, without quarantine on arrival.

This website is not the right place to obtain accurate information, nor has it ever been, in regards to specific travel policies.

And how many DCL itineraries for rnext summer embark from Croatia?

The first hurdle is embark/disembark countries. You need Barcelona (Spain), Citavecchia (Italy), Dover (England), Copenhagen (Denmark). Not even talking ports of call.

• Denmark: Closed to US travelers. Only U.S. residents who qualify for a travel exception (called a “worthy purpose” by the Danish government) can enter Denmark.
• Spain: US travelers cannot enter without specific permission from the Spanish government. On top of that, public or private gatherings are limited to six people, which seems to make port ops an issue.
• England: US nationals need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival, the states are not on the approved travel corridor list: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...f-isolation-requirement-on-arrival-in-england
• Italy: No US travel entry. They also have travel corridor requirements, and the US is most certainly not on it.

It really doesn't matter if Croatia is cool with Americans for the purposes of discussing DCL restarting. They need Spain, Italy, England and Denmark.

 

[bavaria]

And how many DCL itineraries for rnext summer embark from Croatia?

Croatia is in fact a cruise destination. I doubt that current restrictions will be in place months from now, but in theory there could be cruises embarking and disembarking in Croatia.

I'm only referring however to the amount of misinformation in this thread regarding current conditions in Europe. Several posts have information which is simply incorrect, and someone reading may well believe that Americans are unable to travel to the entire continent of 'Europe' right now, which simply isn't the case.

 

[pjacobi]

At the moment Irish people are only allowed to travel to 4 countries

• Cyprus
• Finland
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein

How do you get from Ireland to Liechtenstein without transiting another country? Liechtenstein is too small to have an airport!


-Paul

 

[scottishclover]

Ok, so there’s maybe not a ban on US citizens but if you need to quarantine for 14 days then travelling for the purpose of a holiday is pointless.

 

[bavaria]

How do you get from Ireland to Liechtenstein without transiting another country? Liechtenstein is too small to have an airport!


-Paul

Easy. Many Irish are allowed in Germany, and Liechtenstein is an easy drive from MUC over Bregenz (they are also allowed in Austria. Otherwise fly into an Austrian airport, but MUC is an easy drive. (I suppose if coming from Dublin, then the Austrian route is the better option)

And Liechtenstein is pretty much the least restrictive place I've been since April. They even request in many places that you remove your mask.

Ok, so there’s maybe not a ban on US citizens but if you need to quarantine for 14 days then travelling for the purpose of a holiday is pointless.

But Americans CAN fly today to places without having to quarantine on arrival.

 

[Geomom]

Again, the information posted is not correct. As just one example, Croatia, an EU member state, permits US citizens to enter without quarantine. A negative test is required, and proof of accommodation. There are many countries which are now 'open' around the world, including to Americans, without quarantine on arrival.

This website is not the right place to obtain accurate information, nor has it ever been, in regards to specific travel policies.

Sorry for any misinformation. I got the info from this CNN article that stated that the EU had banned US travellers and I didn't read through the list of countries accepting US citizens.. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/us-international-travel-covid-19/index.html. It does say that Croatia has ignored the EU ban and is allowing US tourists as of July.

 

[bavaria]

There is really good information on the Flyertalk thread I recommended. I know that it's really tough to keep up with changes (The German RKI does a daily list, but I think most places do not)

As you can imagine, many Americans want to travel, so that is a good source to see current conditions. I don't think that anyone posts with malice or intent to mislead, but the reality is that the media doesn't do a good job of presenting facts these days.

The IATA site is also good, but they cannot keep up either so always good to double check!
https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Croatia is in fact a cruise destination. I doubt that current restrictions will be in place months from now, but in theory there could be cruises embarking and disembarking in Croatia.

Zero DCL sailings embark or end in Croatia, which makes their willingness to welcome Americans not useful.

Spain is in he midst of new restrictions right now. They will be one of the last countries to reopen to Americans, I think, and they are a key hub for DCL's European ops.

 

[Jim Libasci]

Even if we get a change in leadership in the next few months, did everything the scientists want, I would not surprised if takes at least this time next year before it's safe for other countries to let the US travel.

 

[otten]

Uggghhhh... say it aint so... but sadly you're right.
Europe needs to be open by Spring otherwise no DCL sailings in 2021.

Yea we are booked on a Northern European on August so I hope I’m wrong but realistically I don’t see them doing either Alaska or Europe this summer

 

[bcwife76]

I think it will be summer. That being said I think if Europe isn’t open by early spring DCL will cancel the Europe season

I hope so. Not that I hope it's cancelled but if it IS cancelled, I hope it's by early spring as our PIF date for the 10 night Northern Europe cruise is late April and we will cancel rather than PIF.

 

[tvguy]

Travel continues around much of Europe, with few restrictions. I can vouch for that. And there are Americans travelling in Europe, as several countries do allow them entry. I can vouch for that as well. (And there are many, many more Canadians than usual or they stand out more right now, as Canada is welcomed to much of Europe)

Based on today's news that may be changing. https://news.trust.org/item/20201008165852-2v4l2

 

[T & R]

Based on today's news that may be changing. https://news.trust.org/item/20201008165852-2v4l2

That's strange because the media narrative here in the U.S. is that Europe is handling the virus so much better than us. Meanwhile, that article states that Europe currently has the highest positivity rate than any single region in the world and has almost 100K positive cases just on 10/08 alone. Europe is 1/10th of the world's population but they are currently 1/3 of all new Covid positive cases in the world. Even in the U.S., we have never had a single day positive number that high during the entirety of the pandemic. Also, Europe has a much higher mortality rate from Covid than the U.S., although Europe has had half the number of positive cases the U.S. has had (3.88 million), they have roughly the same number of Covid deaths we do (195,000), over 5% Covid mortality rate in Europe compared to ours which is half that. So you are more likely to die from Covid contracted while in Europe than Covid contracted while in the U.S.. I wonder what went wrong over there?

 

[ladyofthetramp]

I see my Italy/Greece cruise that I booked to replace this year's slipping away. I thought things would be better in a year, but perhaps not. I am signed up for alerts through the state department that Italy has extended their state of emergency to the end of January (On October 7, 2020, the Italian government issued a new decree extending the COVID-19 state of emergency to January 31, 2021), not to mention our own level 3 travel ban. That decree ends, if it ends on that date, really close to my PIF for my cruise. Not going to PIF again and wait for a refund. If things are looking better and DCL extends the time to PIF until close to the cruise, I might wait it out a bit. But if DCL is not cruising by the beginning of Feb and the world does not seem to be in a better place, just going to cancel. And that makes me sad, sad, sad....

 

[braysmommy]

I see my Italy/Greece cruise that I booked to replace this year's slipping away. I thought things would be better in a year, but perhaps not. I am signed up for alerts through the state department that Italy has extended their state of emergency to the end of January (On October 7, 2020, the Italian government issued a new decree extending the COVID-19 state of emergency to January 31, 2021), not to mention our own level 3 travel ban. That decree ends, if it ends on that date, really close to my PIF for my cruise. Not going to PIF again and wait for a refund. If things are looking better and DCL extends the time to PIF until close to the cruise, I might wait it out a bit. But if DCL is not cruising by the beginning of Feb and the world does not seem to be in a better place, just going to cancel. And that makes me sad, sad, sad....

We are in the same boat, pun intended, as we are booked for June 11th Italy/Greece and I seriously doubt it will happen and if it does it won't look anything like DCL cruises of the past. So much uncertainty and my outlook changes daily but I have yet to look at excursions, hotels in Rome pre-cruise or plan our week after the cruise. I hate to think what airfare will be if we end up going!

 

[Karin1984]

I'm going for Summer, but maybe sooner with vaccines and proper treatments.
I'm in NL and we're a hotspot now! Amsterdam is always the worst, too many people on a small piece of land. Amsterdam is new to cruising, the city is not on many routes, and there are so many tourists coming to Amsterdam already under normal circumstances, a cruise ship will not add that much more congestion.

 

[bavaria]

That's strange because the media narrative here in the U.S. is that Europe is handling the virus so much better than us. Meanwhile, that article states that Europe currently has the highest positivity rate than any single region in the world and has almost 100K positive cases just on 10/08 alone. Europe is 1/10th of the world's population but they are currently 1/3 of all new Covid positive cases in the world. Even in the U.S., we have never had a single day positive number that high during the entirety of the pandemic. Also, Europe has a much higher mortality rate from Covid than the U.S., although Europe has had half the number of positive cases the U.S. has had (3.88 million), they have roughly the same number of Covid deaths we do (195,000), over 5% Covid mortality rate in Europe compared to ours which is half that. So you are more likely to die from Covid contracted while in Europe than Covid contracted while in the U.S.. I wonder what went wrong over there?

Well, I will try and keep it brief, but it is a 'long answer'. Two things are very important to remember
- 'Europe' is a group of countries, all have very different health care systems, and all have reacted differently to the virus. If you look at Spain vs Germany the results of deaths/million are very, very different
- the news media, especially the American news media, has an agenda, and doesn't present facts or encourage critical thinking. Their role is to sell a product, not to provide factual information

So, having said that, over the summer the general trend in most of 'Europe' was that the death rate uncoupled from the case rate. That meant that even as cases rose, deaths remained flat. Even now, with the case rate increasing in Germany, the death rate is still about 12 per 85 million on a daily average in the last week (was much lower all summer) with an average death age above the normal mortality age.

In much of 'Europe', the restrictions were lifted and life was pretty normal from May onwards, probably much more so than in the US, and certainly more so than in Canada, Australia, etc. But some countries, like Ireland, remained much more restrictive.

Even in the DACH countries, the reaction varied. Austria was the first 'official' area of spread, and has the youngest world leader ever, but over the summer there were very low cases and almost no deaths. Almost everything was open, gatherings of thousands were permitted, hotels had conventions, no masks were required except in banks and grocery stores, etc. Germany was a bit more restriction, Liechtenstein was even less restrictive. Cases did not rise significantly, and deaths remained flat.

Testing in many countries was abundant and fast. We went twice in the last few weeks to public testing centres for returned travellers, which are at every airport, major train stations, and border crossings. Total time to be tested from arrival to departure was about 7 minutes, cost was zero even for non-citizens/residents, and results came in under 12 hours. (We had no symptoms, this is just a free service open to returning travellers with no symptoms, whilst those who need a test for abroad can be tested for a fee)

Testing and contact tracing were key in keeping cases lowered, even with borders opened to the EU and to other countries such as Canada, etc.

Now cases are rising, mostly due to group gatherings in party athmosphere. Yet so far the death rate has not risen, even after a few weeks of rising cases. Nor is the healthcare system taxed (again, this varies by country in 'Europe') We had a great holiday in Italy, by the way, which was pretty open. Mask wearing is more prominent in the south, with the Nordic countries rarely wearing masks (I've been all over western/central/southern Europe this year, throughout the pandemic)

To give you a few facts:

3,3 percent of all ICU beds are full of COVID patients in Berlin. Germany has a system of green/yellow/red lights when cases per million increase. Then they implement local restrictions, for a 2 week period, which are pretty light. (No alcohol sales after a certain hour, Munich required masks in the pedestrian zone for 2 weeks, etc)

Deaths in Berlin? 4 in October, 2 in September, 3 in August, 9 in July, 16 in June, 49 in May, 134 in April, and 15 in March. Not the shocking figures the English language media reports. (Surging, soaring, etc)
https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/art...n-Die-Hauptstadt-vor-dem-Kontrollverlust.html

The German RKI does a daily report (even weekends) in German and in English, with facts. Here is their recent statement on the current conditions:

Since calendar week 30, the proportion of deaths among COVID-19 cases has been consistently below 1% and is thus markedly lower than among cases in the spring, particularly in April. It is unlikely that the virus has changed to become less pathogenic. Rather, the low proportion of deaths can be explained as follows: On the one hand, recent infections have occurred mainly among young people, who rarely experience a severe course of disease. On the other hand there is also broader testing, which means more milder cases are identified.

So, long post, apologies, but my main takeaway is to avoid especially the US television news, apply critical thinking, look at the death rate vs the case rate, consider how restrictions are implemented, and don't think of 'Europe' as one entity.

I hope that helps, if you managed to get through to the end!

 

[tvguy]

That's strange because the media narrative here in the U.S. is that Europe is handling the virus so much better than us. Meanwhile, that article states that Europe currently has the highest positivity rate than any single region in the world and has almost 100K positive cases just on 10/08 alone. Europe is 1/10th of the world's population but they are currently 1/3 of all new Covid positive cases in the world. Even in the U.S., we have never had a single day positive number that high during the entirety of the pandemic. Also, Europe has a much higher mortality rate from Covid than the U.S., although Europe has had half the number of positive cases the U.S. has had (3.88 million), they have roughly the same number of Covid deaths we do (195,000), over 5% Covid mortality rate in Europe compared to ours which is half that. So you are more likely to die from Covid contracted while in Europe than Covid contracted while in the U.S.. I wonder what went wrong over there?

When a virus is running things, it isn't strange. That's how viruses work.