Question regarding the term 'modern American history' referred to in discussions of mass shootings

[Dan Murphy]

With the most recent mass shooting in Las Vegas (so sad we can place chronological timelines with so many of these shootings ), I keep hearing the subject term, "most killed in modern American history". Were there other large mass shootings/killings in early historical America? I have never heard of mass killings way back in American history.

I guess if you said the Civil War was able to be counted, maybe. But can't think of anything else.

Just a question I keep thinking of when listening to the news.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[HarperLeigh]

With the most recent mass shooting in Las Vegas (so sad we can place chronological timelines with so many of these shootings ), I keep hearing the subject term, "most killed in modern American history". Were there other large mass shootings/killings in early historical America? I have never heard of mass killings way back in American history.

I guess if you said the Civil War was able to be counted, maybe. But can't think of anything else.

Just a question I keep thinking of when listening to the news.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks.

Wounded Knee. Tulsa Race Riots. There were a lot of large killings in our country's history. I believe when they say modern US history, it is since 1900, but I am not sure.

 

[sam_gordon]

Here you go...
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/10/2/16401510/las-vegas-shooting-deadliest

1873 Louisiana: 153 people killed
1917 St Louis: Possibly as many as 100+ killed over three days

 

[smiths02]

Also 1927 Bath school disaster (It is the deadliest mass murder to take place at a school in United States history.) It was bombs.

 

[Colleen27]

Wounded Knee. Tulsa Race Riots. There were a lot of large killings in our country's history. I believe when they say modern US history, it is since 1900, but I am not sure.

I think the line is drawn a little later than that. Mid-1900s maybe? The lists always include Charles Whitman at UT in 1966, but never the race riots and urban conflicts of the early part of the century.

I never quite got the need to make the distinction, though, since when we talk about mass shootings now it is in a very particular context - one or two individuals carrying out indiscriminate violence against a group of victims. The earlier incidents that the distinction is meant to exclude were riots, racial conflicts, and slaughter carried out by military, militia, or vigilante groups. They don't really fit the modern conception of a mass shooting.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

With the most recent mass shooting in Las Vegas (so sad we can place chronological timelines with so many of these shootings ), I keep hearing the subject term, "most killed in modern American history". Were there other large mass shootings/killings in early historical America? I have never heard of mass killings way back in American history.

I guess if you said the Civil War was able to be counted, maybe. But can't think of anything else.

Just a question I keep thinking of when listening to the news.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks.

Not sure how accurate this is, and it's only listed as mass murder because more than 4 people died at the time. History lists one in 1760:
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ss-murder-changes-common-perceptions-of-crime

Wiki (again, quick and easy, can't verify accuracy) lists 1863
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Americas)

 

[Dan Murphy]

I think the line is drawn a little later than that. Mid-1900s maybe? The lists always include Charles Whitman at UT in 1966, but never the race riots and urban conflicts of the early part of the century.

I never quite got the need to make the distinction, though, since when we talk about mass shootings now it is in a very particular context - one or two individuals carrying out indiscriminate violence against a group of victims. The earlier incidents that the distinction is meant to include were riots, racial conflicts, and slaughter carried out by military, militia, or vigilante groups. They don't really fit the modern conception of a mass shooting.

I am thinking along these lines also, Colleen. That's what makes it confusing to me.

The Vox link from Sam touches on this also.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

 

[smiths02]

I think the line is drawn a little later than that. Mid-1900s maybe? The lists always include Charles Whitman at UT in 1966, but never the race riots and urban conflicts of the early part of the century.

I never quite got the need to make the distinction, though, since when we talk about mass shootings now it is in a very particular context - one or two individuals carrying out indiscriminate violence against a group of victims. The earlier incidents that the distinction is meant to exclude were riots, racial conflicts, and slaughter carried out by military, militia, or vigilante groups. They don't really fit the modern conception of a mass shooting.

Also, the terms mass shooting, mass murder, massacre are not well defined in general. Mass shooting is generally four or more people shot (but that can be shot and not necessarily killed and it can include the perp)

But I agree that the Bath Massacre (although, not a shooting) and things like the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre are not brought up. So it must be later when they say "modern."

 

[BLAZEY]

Not sure how accurate this is, and it's only listed as mass murder because more than 4 people died at the time. History lists one in 1760:
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ss-murder-changes-common-perceptions-of-crime

Wiki (again, quick and easy, can't verify accuracy) lists 1863
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Americas)

The main thing I see from that wiki link is that most of incidents are in the US. And in it's disclaimer it says it doesn't include shootings in schools, places of worship, homes (domestic violence ), or for political/ racial motives, so the list is even larger.

Reading other boards where pro gun people claim the US doesn't have more killings than other countries or regions, Norway keeps coming up as having more killings per capita than the US. The numbers are manipulated in a way that that they see that Norway had more deaths as a percentage of the population. The numbers in Norway stem from ONE incident in 2011 where a man went to a small island with a youth camp on it. One incident with a large number of deaths. In the US it is nearly a daily occurrence to have shootings in which 4+ people die. Other countries go YEARS between shootings like this, some even decades.

 

[Dan Murphy]

In the US it is nearly a daily occurrence to have shootings in which 4+ people die. Other countries go YEARS between shootings like this, some even decades.

A day or 2 ago, the statement was made that that day was the 275th day of the year, and there had been 273 definitional mass shootings here in the US up until then this year. Sad

 

[BLAZEY]

A day or 2 ago, the statement was made that that day was the 275th day of the year, and there had been 273 definitional mass shootings here in the US up until then this year. Sad

Sad and scary.

 

[NotUrsula]

I believe that the reasoning has to do largely with the shame associated with mistreatment of minorities in the US. There were some very ugly incidents perpetrated on Americans by our own government before the notion of racial equality was adapted as the law of the land. Saying "modern history" alludes to that. Generally speaking, the UT Tower shooting in 1966 is often taken as the first "mass shooting" of the modern historical era, which, incidentally, coincides with the television news era.

This week's Time Magazine has an article discussing the distinction: http://time.com/4968108/las-vegas-deadliest-shooting-modern-us-history/

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A day or 2 ago, the statement was made that that day was the 275th day of the year, and there had been 273 definitional mass shootings here in the US up until then this year. Sad

You really do have to be careful whose definition you are using. Media has a habit of latching onto the "mass shooting" and applying it to all incidents where it doesn't apply.

Heck even Jimmy Kimmel decided to use a shooting that occurred in my alma mater's town saying that basically shootings in our culture were so commonplace this was skipped over.....the truth is the shooting was a verbal altercation that turned into a shooting where 3 people died (none of which attended the University)..in other words not a mass shooting...but it's easy to slap on a label and further the whole mass shootings.

Here is a good article going over things but the most important one is: "The point is: There is no universally accepted definition of mass shooting."

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...s-vegas-mass-shooting-273rd-year-or-seventh-/

BTW their fact check is "Baldwin says the Las Vegas shooting was the "273rd mass shooting" in the United States so far in 2017. She cites a source that arrived at that figure using a very broad definition of mass shooting. Other sources use narrower definitions that yield much lower counts. For a statement that is partially accurate but takes things out of context, our rating is Half True."