Real estate question

[Liz]

We are selling our home and filled out the Seller Disclosure form. We answered no to any roof problems because we weren't aware of any. The buyer had a home inspection done and one of the repairs they requested of us was to replace some missing shingles on the ridge of the roof (we weren't aware any shingles were missing) and to install turtle vents on the roof. We had a roofer come out yesterday to give us an estimate on doing these repairs and he told us we actually need a full roof replacement. He showed us how all over the roof he can pull up the shingles and in one part over the porch he said it was extremely weak. He explained the reason why we haven't had any leaks yet, but I didn't really get why.

Now the question. We told our realtor what the roofer found. She said we do not need to disclose this to the buyer of our home. She said they had an inspection done and they didn't ask for a new roof and their inspector should have found it. We asked a second real estate agent and she agreed that we are under no obligation to disclose this. Is there no obligation to update the seller disclosure form if new information comes to light before closing? We want to do the right thing. We have lived in this house since 1995 and believe the roof was new in 1994. Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

 

[sam_gordon]

We are selling our home and filled out the Seller Disclosure form. We answered no to any roof problems because we weren't aware of any. The buyer had a home inspection done and one of the repairs they requested of us was to replace some missing shingles on the ridge of the roof (we weren't aware any shingles were missing) and to install turtle vents on the roof. We had a roofer come out yesterday to give us an estimate on doing these repairs and he told us we actually need a full roof replacement. He showed us how all over the roof he can pull up the shingles and in one part over the porch he said it was extremely weak. He explained the reason why we haven't had any leaks yet, but I didn't really get why.

Now the question. We told our realtor what the roofer found. She said we do not need to disclose this to the buyer of our home. She said they had an inspection done and they didn't ask for a new roof and their inspector should have found it. We asked a second real estate agent and she agreed that we are under no obligation to disclose this. Is there no obligation to update the seller disclosure form if new information comes to light before closing? We want to do the right thing. We have lived in this house since 1995 and believe the roof was new in 1994. Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

I am not a real estate agent nor a lawyer just a random guy on the internet, so take this for what it's worth...

First, I would get a second opinion on the roof. No need to tell him what the first guy said, just bring him out to get prices on the repairs for the buyer. If he says you need a new roof, I feel it should be disclosed to the buyer. But, it's possible the first roofer was just looking for $$. If the second guy doesn't say anything, I think you're off the hook.

I do know when we sold our home, we paid for a warranty that covered a lot of major issues. About 2-3 months after we closed, the AC unit went out on our old house and the buyer had to use the warranty. That extra piece of mind was well worth it (made it easier to sell).

 

[kdonnel]

The roof industry ranks somewhere between cable tv and used car salesman for honesty. I would not trust the first, second, third, or fourth roofer who gave an estimate to be 100% honest in their assessment.

Depending on your roof material it really could be at the end of its life. Asphalt shingle roofs in new construction are typically installed with a shingle that lasts about 20 years, less if the attic is not properly vented.

 

[Kimberle]

You should really ask your Lawyer. You need one to close. Laws vary from state to state.

 

[LilyWDW]

Get a second opinion before you make any fixes.

I would ask a lawyer, not a realtor, the question about disclosure.

 

[Skippy918]

The roof industry ranks somewhere between cable tv and used car salesman for honesty. I would not trust the first, second, third, or fourth roofer who gave an estimate to be 100% honest in their assessment.

Depending on your roof material it really could be at the end of its life. Asphalt shingle roofs in new construction are typically installed with a shingle that lasts about 20 years, less if the attic is not properly vented.

I’ve heard the same thing that roof lifespans are 20 years. I would get a second opinion from another roofer and replace the roof if necessary.

 

[tvguy]

Wow, good luck with that. I would be as concerned that the lender will see that house has a 25 year old roof and just require a new roof as a condition of funding the loan, unless you have a cash buyer. As a buyer, a new roof would be in my purchase offer if the roof was 25 years old.

 

[cobright]

Your roof is 25+ years old. It probably needs to be replaced. But then again, it may not. Get a second opinion. Ideally from an inspector and not from a roofer. Ridge shingles do tend to go early, and that replacement is probably all you really need.

As for your duty to report what the roof salesman tells you... first you must know if your state mandates fiduciary duty in Realtors. I don't know any state that doesn't. A fiduciary duty is a legal requirement to behave in a certain way. the old Realtor fiduciary acronym was OLDCAR, can look it up; but the D stands for Disclosure. Exactly what must be disclosed and when is a point of law that real estate agents study before becoming licensed. If your agent says you don't need to disclose this, most likely the responsibility for that decision is theirs. In which case, take the agent's word on this one.

 

[barkley]

Wow, good luck with that. I would be as concerned that the lender will see that house has a 25 year old roof and just require a new roof as a condition of funding the loan, unless you have a cash buyer. As a buyer, a new roof would be in my purchase offer if the roof was 25 years old.

we never had a lender put conditions on a home we bought. so long as we qualified for the loan, had homeowners insurance lined up and the value we purported was confirmed by their appraiser we were good to go. come to think of it even when we bought a well over 30 year old home the homeowner's insurance company never did anything but a drive by.


op-i would hope your realtor knows the law in your state and if no secondary disclosure is required i wouldn't worry about it. if their inspector didn't report it as an issue i wouldn't worry about it. i would either find someone who is willing to do the fix they requested or offer a credit back in the amount estimated to do the job (i always think that's better with a house sale b/c if there's problems with the repairs it's between the new owner/repair person-not the previous owner as middleman).

 

[tvguy]

we never had a lender put conditions on a home we bought. so long as we qualified for the loan, had homeowners insurance lined up and the value we purported was confirmed by their appraiser we were good to go. come to think of it even when we bought a well over 30 year old home the homeowner's insurance company never did anything but a drive by.

Number two on this list of why lenders refuse to fund. https://mymortgageinsider.com/five-property-appraisal-problems-risk-mortgage-approval-6364/

 

[NYCgrrl]

The average lifespan of most commonly used roof materials no matter what composition excepting slate is between 20 and 30 years. If the roof was new in 1994 your roof has used up quite a bit of it's useful life and the home inspector would/should know that.
I would NOT get another roofer's opinion but simply take the cost of the repair they are requesting off the sales price and be done. No way would I dream of touching a roof of that age as there are way too many issues related to the process.

 

[ronandannette]

We are selling our home and filled out the Seller Disclosure form. We answered no to any roof problems because we weren't aware of any. The buyer had a home inspection done and one of the repairs they requested of us was to replace some missing shingles on the ridge of the roof (we weren't aware any shingles were missing) and to install turtle vents on the roof. We had a roofer come out yesterday to give us an estimate on doing these repairs and he told us we actually need a full roof replacement. He showed us how all over the roof he can pull up the shingles and in one part over the porch he said it was extremely weak. He explained the reason why we haven't had any leaks yet, but I didn't really get why.

Now the question. We told our realtor what the roofer found. She said we do not need to disclose this to the buyer of our home. She said they had an inspection done and they didn't ask for a new roof and their inspector should have found it. We asked a second real estate agent and she agreed that we are under no obligation to disclose this. Is there no obligation to update the seller disclosure form if new information comes to light before closing? We want to do the right thing. We have lived in this house since 1995 and believe the roof was new in 1994. Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

Tough call but to me it depends how how you personally define "doing the right thing". The roof is at or beyond it's expected life-span; don't fool yourself about that. Being in the construction industry and having very little respect for 3rd party home inspectors, I'm shaking my head that their guy didn't bring that up to them and instead focused on a couple of relatively minor issues.

That said, in IMO it's not morally wrong to sell the house as-is-where-is. I'm not sure how strong their offer is but I think what I personally would do is disclose the age of the roof and the expectation it will need to be replaced at some near-future date. Then I'd offer to either have the requested repairs made OR give them a credit in an appropriate amount for them if they want to roll it into the larger job at their own discretion.

From what I understand about duty-to-disclose, you really don't have to do anything more than what's already been done. If you choose to just deal with their request for the repairs (either agree to them or decline), you're not doing anything legally wrong. Follow your own conscience and use the Golden Rule as a guide. Again, IMO, their home inspector failed them.

 

[Southernmiss]

The average lifespan of most commonly used roof materials no matter what composition excepting slate is between 20 and 30 years. If the roof was new in 1994 your roof has used up quite a bit of it's useful life and the home inspector would/should know that.
I would NOT get another roofer's opinion but simply take the cost of the repair they are requesting off the sales price and be done. No way would I dream of touching a roof of that age as there are way too many issues related to the process.

This. You're very fortunate your roof has lasted this long.

Our home was built in 2003, we replaced it 3 years ago.

 

[_19disnA]

I would get a second opinion from a known/reputable roofer that your neighbors and/or friends have successfully used. Various parts of the roof can be subject to more wear/tear due to the design of the roof, where water collects, etc. so the age of the roof alone isn't the only factor. Only a roofer can determine the issues by climbing up on the roof and checking it out. Having some kind of home warranty built into the sale is a good thing for peace of mind since you have no control over how the new owners will maintain the home and/or what may break after you move out. Reducing the selling price for the expected roof cost is another option. I think it is preferable to let the new owners decide the color/style/design/quality of shingles for replacement, since there are so many different choices available. I would do the 'right thing' when selling if you now know of roofing issues, regardless of what your didn't know previously. Lawyers or other third parties might give you just as bad of advice as a dubious roofing company. We have bought/sold many homes over the years and never needed to involve a lawyer (realtor, title company, mortgage lender....etc. handle all of the paperwork).

If you were the one buying the house, wouldn't you want the seller to inform you of newly identified roofing issues since these tend to be expensive to repair?

 

[OneOftheB's]

Personally, I would first get a second opinion from a different roofer. If that one came back as needed to replace the roof, I would contact the seller, offer 1/2 the cost of the new roof and allow them to pay for the vents they want and 1/2 of the new roof.

When my dad sold his house, a home inspection showed old pest damage (not termite but some type of boring beetle) in the basement. It was old, like circa 1970's, when the house was built. The pest guy dad had hired for years was aware of it and had kept an eye on it to verify that it was not active. It was not covered by dad's termite bond, because it was prior to dad's purchase and it wasn't termite damage. My brother and I decided to treat the area and replace the one damaged board (less than $1000) as a good faith gesture. But, a roof is certainly more than a $1000 expense.

 

[Liz]

Thank you for all the replies. We are 100% on board with disclosing this new information, but I don't believe our realtor wants to (because she doesn't think it is required.) Maybe she is afraid the buyer will back out of the purchase and we don't have a back up buyer.

We already know our buyer doesn't want a price reduction to cover repairs. We offered to do that when we first got the list of things to be fixed and the reply came back that she just wanted the repairs done. That was before we got the new roof information.

We don't think the buyer's home inspector did a very good job. We recently had our house painted inside and haven't put our smoke detectors back up. There was no mention on the inspection report to install smoke detectors, which seems like such an obvious thing.

There is a real estate attorney where I work so I am going to talk to him tomorrow if he is in. Thanks again everyone!

 

[NYCgrrl]

I think retaining a real estate attorney to assure a sale is legal and safeguards your interest is a wise decision. I've never not used legal services to buy or sell any investment worthy asset although some do not.
I also do not get emotionally involved in purchasing or selling real property and legal counsel helps to shield me from that most human possibility.

 

[littlejimmy]

there is only one right thing to do. I am pretty sure you know what that is. and it isn't necessarily the legal thing. would you want to buy a house that the seller knew needed a new roof? come on op, do the right thing here. karma can be a real you know what.

 

[disykat]

I honestly find it hard to believe anyone would think it WOULDN'T need a new roof, given that the roof is 25 years old. I think something was really wrong with their inspector if they didn't point out to them that even if it seems like it's in good shape, a 25 yr old roof is living on borrowed time. Our roof is right about that age and we're watching it carefully - along with the water heater and any other appliances that haven't been replaced.

 

[clutter]

Thank you for all the replies. We are 100% on board with disclosing this new information, but I don't believe our realtor wants to (because she doesn't think it is required.) Maybe she is afraid the buyer will back out of the purchase and we don't have a back up buyer.

We already know our buyer doesn't want a price reduction to cover repairs. We offered to do that when we first got the list of things to be fixed and the reply came back that she just wanted the repairs done. That was before we got the new roof information.

We don't think the buyer's home inspector did a very good job. We recently had our house painted inside and haven't put our smoke detectors back up. There was no mention on the inspection report to install smoke detectors, which seems like such an obvious thing.

There is a real estate attorney where I work so I am going to talk to him tomorrow if he is in. Thanks again everyone!

The age of your roof should have been previously disclosed to your buyers. Most MLS listings include the age of the roof and the furnace. So the buyers should have been aware that this could be a problem. (I just had my older roof checked for life because I would like to delay putting a new one on so that it will still be new when I sell in 5 years or so. I'll get every last piece of shingle out of this one, not because I don't want to spend the money, but because I want a young roof when I sell.) So while I get why you might feel bad about this, you likely have no legal obligation to disclose.

I understand how you feel about it. But I also wouldn't trust this roofer. Get some more opinions, and if you decide to replace, find the lowest price you can to fulfill your moral (not legal) obligation. If they buyer wants a nicer roof, have them add the additional cost to the contract price.