Rejected Offers Thread

[CarolynFH]

All of this. I don’t think you should buy DVC expecting capital gains, but having a higher base can be valuable for tax reasons (I guess even in my pessimistic scenario it would also be great for tax loss harvesting to pay more, lol).

Ok, you’ve inspired a tax hypothetical:
If I buy BWV today at $120 loaded and sell it in 2040 for $10 with only 2041 points, can I take that $110 as a long term capital loss?

My understanding is that although we'd have to report a capital-gains profit on a timeshare sale, we can't deduct a capital loss. And the IRS doesn't recognize inflation-adjusted costs, so even though our $62.50 pp for BWV in 1997 is roughly $121 today, we'd still have to pay capital gains taxes if we sold for that!

 

[tom1944]

Yeah I tend to think, though counterintuitive, you may get further with a lower offer on a loaded contract than on a stripped one…although of course it’s always hard to tell. My thinking is always that loaded/double loaded contracts may indicate someone not using their points any more. I wouldn’t be starting in the $90s, if I was patient.

When this was pointed out to me it made a lot of sense.

On the stripped contracts knowing all the low prices gives you information to draw a line in your price and justification to not doubt yourself.

Getting a loaded contract for the low price point is clearly possible but I believe they are called unicorns. In the case of the stripped contracts, it is the seller who needs to get the unicorn not the buyer.

 

[RachStu]

Yeah I tend to think, though counterintuitive, you may get further with a lower offer on a loaded contract than on a stripped one…although of course it’s always hard to tell. My thinking is always that loaded/double loaded contracts may indicate someone not using their points any more. I wouldn’t be starting in the $90s, if I was patient.

That’s also been my experience. All three contracts we’ve bought have had double points (current year and previous year banked in) and we’ve managed to get good prices on all three. I can only think the owners don’t know about rentals.

 

[Rex1993]

Both resa

All of this. I don’t think you should buy DVC expecting capital gains, but having a higher base can be valuable for tax reasons (I guess even in my pessimistic scenario it would also be great for tax loss harvesting to pay more, lol).

Ok, you’ve inspired a tax hypothetical:
If I buy BWV today at $120 loaded and sell it in 2040 for $10 with only 2041 points, can I take that $110 as a long term capital loss?

No. Losses on personal use assets are not deductible. It's a one way street for these assets. You're taxed if there's a gain but you don't get to take the loss.

 

[TCRAIG]

All of this. I don’t think you should buy DVC expecting capital gains, but having a higher base can be valuable for tax reasons (I guess even in my pessimistic scenario it would also be great for tax loss harvesting to pay more, lol).

Ok, you’ve inspired a tax hypothetical:
If I buy BWV today at $120 loaded and sell it in 2040 for $10 with only 2041 points, can I take that $110 as a long term capital loss?

No - evidently, you can’t take capital loss from a timeshare sale as an individual off your taxes - you just won’t have any capital gains to pay taxes on…

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Thanks for all the tax explainers, DVC friends! I guess I’ll just have to hold my DVC forever.

 

[CarolynFH]

Thanks for all the tax explainers, DVC friends! I guess I’ll just have to hold my DVC forever.

That’s our plan, too!

 

[Rex1993]

Thanks for all the tax explainers, DVC friends! I guess I’ll just have to hold my DVC forever.

Until expiration anyway...

 

[AstroBlasters]

Until expiration anyway...

Whichever comes first!

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Whichever comes first!

Haha, I’m in the camp that doesn’t think Disney is going to extend out the other 2042 resorts…but maybe they will at least give us an enhanced discount to buy whatever insanely expensive successor comes next (for BCV/BWV/BRV at least).

 

[Rex1993]

Haha, I’m in the camp that doesn’t think Disney is going to extend out the other 2042 resorts…but maybe they will at least give us an enhanced discount to buy whatever insanely expensive successor comes next (for BCV/BWV/BRV at least).

I think there's hope for some sort of discounted buy in. If I'm DVD and have a resort coming back to me, I'd rather have people bought in prior to the change over to reduce the cash outlay for supporting an entire resort. There are significant costs associated with maintaining the resorts and steep marketing costs associated with selling new points for them. I doubt that DVD would launder the points so that everyone becomes direct. I would think that if they offered a new contract at expiration, you would retain your status as resale or direct. But who knows?

 

[RachStu]

I think it would make sense for the BRV villas to be brought into line with the expiration date for CCV by offering existing owners an extension, but that’s probably just wishful thinking on my part. Of all of our homes, this is the one I love the most and unfortunately is the one that will expire first

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I think there's hope for some sort of discounted buy in. If I'm DVD and have a resort coming back to me, I'd rather have people bought in prior to the change over to reduce the cash outlay for supporting an entire resort. There are significant costs associated with maintaining the resorts and steep marketing costs associated with selling new points for them. I doubt that DVD would launder the points so that everyone becomes direct. I would think that if they offered a new contract at expiration, you would retain your status as resale or direct. But who knows?

I would re-up my resale BCV (acquired last year) in a heartbeat for a short term extension, as long as the price was substantially better than just booking hotel rooms— but I would be surprised to see them go that way. I believe I’ve read on this board that there’s a min 40 year duration on timeshare sales in FL, which is why they made CCV a new association—but I’ve never independently verified.

Honestly, a 10 year DVC contract that’s only 25% as expensive as the 50 year contracts upfront (or a 20 year contract that is 50% as expensive) would probably be wildly popular and encourage some of us to buy a lot more points. I keep saying I’ll buy more BCV/BWV if it dips another 20-25% and part of the reason I don’t mind the extra dues is because I know it’s a 2 decade commitment. I don’t want to be committed to more than 350 points a year after our kids are done with college. We love DVC but don’t mind studios and want to spend a decent chunk of our vacations outside Disney club locations.

As recently as last Jan, I felt that way about all DVC contracts but with ROFR mostly dead, fewer and fewer properties that will accept resale points, and rumors of a DVC 2.0 that might further hurt SAP, I am reluctant to commit to more direct points that run for 40 years that could drop 80-100% in resale.

 

[CVG]

It was pointed out to me though that stripped contracts may be listed by a more experienced owner who rents out their points and will only sell for a set price while loaded contracts may be listed by inexperienced owners who just are not using their points and want to sell to get out of the yearly cost.

For "experienced owner" frequently read "board sponsor". You won't get much joy trying to negotiate with them, but they'll probably offer to educate you some.

 

[CarolynFH]

Until expiration anyway...

LOL, for us it will be a question of who expires first, us or BWV! I don’t think they’ll extend 2042 contracts either, and we wouldn’t want an extension if they did. Neither will our kids.

 

[ClaraOswald]

I think it would make sense for the BRV villas to be brought into line with the expiration date for CCV by offering existing owners an extension, but that’s probably just wishful thinking on my part. Of all of our homes, this is the one I love the most and unfortunately is the one that will expire first

I sometimes wonder what we'll do in 2042 if we decide we want to keep visiting WDW. Maybe by then, we will have purchased a contract at one of the other resorts. But if not, I would consider extending BRV, if the price was right. And if it would have some sort of resale value (since I know we wouldn't keep it forever.)

 

[BuzzLightyr]

The economy works in cycles - growth to recession. There are times where dvd can sell dvc contracts for record prices, and then there are the fire sales where Disney is trying to raise cash.

I don't think we'll get a 2008 financial crisis again, but when (not if) tough times hit Disney, contract extensions for 2042 resorts will be a great source to raise cash.

 

[AstroBlasters]

The economy works in cycles - growth to recession. There are times where dvd can sell dvc contracts for record prices, and then there are the fire sales where Disney is trying to raise cash.

I don't think we'll get a 2008 financial crisis again, but when (not if) tough times hit Disney, contract extensions for 2042 resorts will be a great source to raise cash.

No chance after the cluster at OKW. They’ll let them expire, rent out the rooms for cash while they raise the point chart 40%+ and put the points up for sale again.

 

[Chili327]

contract extensions for 2042 resorts will be a great source to raise cash.

No chance after the cluster at OKW. They’ll let them expire, rent out the rooms for cash while they raise the point chart 40%+ and put the points up for sale again.

Unfortunate truth. They won’t be extending any contracts, but maybe they can buy points back and put them in a trust that goes beyond the expiration date.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Unfortunate truth. They won’t be extending any contracts, but maybe they can buy points back and put them in a trust that goes beyond the expiration date.

If everyone that didn’t want to extend would have signed the quit claim deed and acknowledged that their claim ends at the date they originally signed up for then this wouldn’t be an issue.

But a large number of people are trying to free ride on the extension and it ruined it for all of the other resorts.