RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[jnjhuddle]

Whew! That took a loooong time to read through all of these comments and I felt pretty fired up about some of the early comments on the first few pages!

My gut reaction yesterday was...how could they do this? The nerve of them!

Today, I feel differently because it really doesn't affect me all that much. I don't plan on selling down the road either. As for those buying resale today, tomorrow or next week they are going into this without realizing they lost something because it wasn't an option in the first place (ok maybe not those today or tomorrow because they have probably been doing their research and feel a real loss).

I would also like to comment on the pp's (don't feel like going back and quoting) that said that the short less than a week trips are a probem, as this made me cranky. We bought a year ago and went in September, November, end of January and we just left there on Saturday. all trips that were only 2-5 days (mostly when we could get a cheap flight). I'd love to know why you think your 1 week stay should take precedence over my every other month getaway? Both should be viewed as equal. The one thing that does irritate me with short stays is when an owner snags a premium holiday reservation at the 11 month window and then posts it here to rent out to non owners. THAT is taking away from availability of other owners, not those of us that already own and like to do short stays.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

This pretty much ends any and all desire we have ever had to buy in. Been looking again at resale, trying to see if it's worth it or not. Came to the conclusion it's an even wash considering the deals we normally get for vacations. Learning that they are taking away these perks, especially the season pass discount, makes buying in of absolute zero value for us. It would be more expensive to own DVC than to simply go every year on a package\deal\discount.

Kind of feels like a big relief actually.

For sure DVC is not for everyone, and losing the AP discount can be significant if you use that perk.

I will say though that DVC is still a great deal for some people, especially if you want 1 or 2 bedrooms (I haven't done the math on studios).

Assumptions:
- BLT contract 300 pts at $120 per point to rent 2 bedroom Villa 1 week each year
- 4% increase in maintenance fees each year
- 4% increase in cash price of hotels each year

The ultimate price you are paying for a room at Bay Lake Towers 2 bedroom Villa is roughly equivalent to a $270 per night room by today's prices. No matter how many perks they take away, that's a pretty good deal for any hotel, not even considering this is an on-site resort.

There are some caveats to that, of course, mainly that you are locked in to staying at DVC, and that you need to take regular trips (although at the present, renting out points is a good alternative, this may change in the future). I also did didn't include the opportunity cost of investing the money you paid upfront.

 

[dsnydaddy]

I'm a sandwicher (bought resale after 2011 and before 2016) so this doesn't directly affect me. But I'm thinking that overall this change still does not mean much.

1. For Disney it may mean more direct sales. But if it severely affects resale values then it will turn off those who might buy directly. (Who wants to spend that much money for something that will be valueless almost immediately after you buy?) Yeah, I know buying direct makes you part of the "in" crowd but realistically how much do you lose.
2. When I bought resale, I was warned by many "old-timers" to not count the benefits as a part of the membership because they come and go. And since I've been an owner, I've seen some good deals come and go on tickets. But they're nearly always temporary. I did not make my decision based upon this at all.
3. The "discounts" aren't that big a deal. I can still get a Disney Visa Discount. So, that mitigates the merchandise and dining discounts. Ticket Discounts come and go so that's not anything that is a big deal. And as far as the AP discount, I'd venture to guess that I'm probably in the minority here, but I've stopped buying AP's long ago. Too many other vacations to take and AP's tend to make me take them all at Disney.
4. Others have done the math here. It would take a long time to recoup the added cost of the direct contract in discounts as they are currently offered.

Now if DVC started offering greater discounts than the currently offer then maybe this perk would be worth paying more for. But then again, they could still take them all away again.

So I say...

Meh.

 

[msjprincess]

Whew! That took a loooong time to read through all of these comments and I felt pretty fired up about some of the early comments on the first few pages!

My gut reaction yesterday was...how could they do this? The nerve of them!

Today, I feel differently because it really doesn't affect me all that much. I don't plan on selling down the road either. As for those buying resale today, tomorrow or next week they are going into this without realizing they lost something because it wasn't an option in the first place (ok maybe not those today or tomorrow because they have probably been doing their research and feel a real loss).

I would also like to comment on the pp's (don't feel like going back and quoting) that said that the short less than a week trips are a probem, as this made me cranky. We bought a year ago and went in September, November, end of January and we just left there on Saturday. all trips that were only 2-5 days (mostly when we could get a cheap flight). I'd love to know why you think your 1 week stay should take precedence over my every other month getaway? Both should be viewed as equal. The one thing that does irritate me with short stays is when an owner snags a premium holiday reservation at the 11 month window and then posts it here to rent out to non owners. THAT is taking away from availability of other owners, not those of us that already own and like to do short stays.

How dare you.

One of the reasons we bought DVC is because we're planning on retiring to Florida. The idea is for us to buy APs and go for a bunch of long weekends during the year.

 

[Tunseeker1]

My take on those comments is how often one can try to book a longer rez (say, longer than 5 or 6 nights) and have a "hole" in the middle. I daresay many of us members here have had that happen. I have a W/L right now that has been in place for months because I have a "hole" in the middle of my November rez. Whether it is because members have booked shorter stays or not, I do not know. But because DVC is a points based TS with no minimum nights, this kind of problem is far more common than any traditional TS that has full week stays ONLY with only weekend day check-in days. I own a few traditional TS and that is how they work. You can only check in on Fri, Sat or Sunday and your rez is automatically 7 nights.

Do you have a hole at your home report?

 

[disneynutz]

I'm a sandwicher (bought resale after 2011 and before 2016) so this doesn't directly affect me. But I'm thinking that overall this change still does not mean much.

1. For Disney it may mean more direct sales. But if it severely affects resale values then it will turn off those who might buy directly. (Who wants to spend that much money for something that will be valueless almost immediately after you buy?) Yeah, I know buying direct makes you part of the "in" crowd but realistically how much do you lose.
2. When I bought resale, I was warned by many "old-timers" to not count the benefits as a part of the membership because they come and go. And since I've been an owner, I've seen some good deals come and go on tickets. But they're nearly always temporary. I did not make my decision based upon this at all.
3. The "discounts" aren't that big a deal. I can still get a Disney Visa Discount. So, that mitigates the merchandise and dining discounts. Ticket Discounts come and go so that's not anything that is a big deal. And as far as the AP discount, I'd venture to guess that I'm probably in the minority here, but I've stopped buying AP's long ago. Too many other vacations to take and AP's tend to make me take them all at Disney.
4. Others have done the math here. It would take a long time to recoup the added cost of the direct contract in discounts as they are currently offered.

Now if DVC started offering greater discounts than the currently offer then maybe this perk would be worth paying more for. But then again, they could still take them all away again.

So I say...

Meh.

Your forgetting that 55% plus of direct buyers don't know about resale, if they did, they wouldn't buy direct.

Bill

 

[Snurk71]

I think I might be the only one whose reaction was - wow, that might drive down the resale market a little giving me another buying opportunity to add to my stash.

For the record, I've bought direct, resale before 2011, and resale after 2011. So the changes don't impact me and as a business person I think I like direction.

 

[Opie100]

If I have been a resale owner for the past X years, and I buy more resale points in August, will I continue to have the same benefits I had before the announcement? In other words, do resale owners prior to 4/4/16 retain full DVC benefits in the future regardless of how many resale points we may purchase going forward (assuming we retain points purchased prior to 4/4/16)?

 

[jnjhuddle]

Your very right that everyone is different. The size of your group along with the rooms you need make it worth it for you. (Although I'd be factoring in the initial point purchase). My issue outside of this last cut is that nothing is guaranteed even with DVC. Sure, your point requirements are, but not ticket\pass costs, food costs, maintenance fees etc. etc. The fact that they made this change, and I was able to once again book a two week stay at the Poly with park tickets for 4 people at $3600, makes DVC a total no go at this point.

While I said it was a relief, it's also sad. We love Disney, but every year they take and take without ever giving anything to those truly loyal fans.

Ok, please share how you got this deal because it looks like you got a sweet deal!! Assuming you just did a 10 day pass for your 2 week trip (approx $400 each x4) vs an AP, that leaves only ~$2000 for 14 nights at the poly. That would be $6.45 pp if you were renting or $143/night for a cash reservation!! I know you can get some really good discounts on cheaptickets/Orbitz, but I don't see anything in that price range currently (I honestly haven't needed to search this out since we bought DVC, but I have seen up to 30% off disneys discounted rate in the past).

 

[disneynutz]

I was told a few years ago by a DVC insider that DVC would try to have member dues pay for all activities, mingles, parities, anything that they could.

Now with restricting resale buyers does this mean that Disney/DVD is paying for everything other than the paid for events or are restricted owners paying for events that they can't attend?

Bill

 

[DizzyStitch]

I've been reading thru all these comments. My gut reaction was how horrible to lose the perks for new buyers! And how can Disney imagine people will not eventually sell. These contracts are long and life takes some very unexpected turns. But I still remember as I posted my first questions about what does DVC offer me and I was hot on an AP discount and someone told me don't count on it, that it's not guaranteed. I finally realized that I was going to buy DVC so I could stop trying to chasing discounts only be able to book my vacations when a discount came up. Yes the perks are nice when you get them, but if you buy points on the resale market I think you still get some great value for your buck on room prices. And my kids have thanked my over and over for buying DVC, they love the bigger rooms and nicer resorts for not very much more than we paid at the Values. And we go when we want, not when the discounts are there.

 

[jerseyduke]

says the person who owns direct. why should it be that way. Disney property is Disney property just as dvc property is dvc property.

I would not worry about this. It seems like it would be a penalty to those buying resale. And it certainly would be. It would also be a penalty to those buying direct.

The theory of 7 months is that a person did not elect to make a reservation at their home resort, they booked a different resort. In effect, a trade was made. Person A passed on their booking of a week at BCV, and instead booked a week at BWV. They traded their week at BCV with someone at BWV. (All behind the scenes of course...and maybe the BWV person, went to BLT, and the BLT person is the person that went to BCV).

Restricting resale points to home resorts would KILL 7 month booking at non home resorts for people who purchased directly from Disney.

 

[jerseyduke]

The idea of giving something extra rather than taking something away would have been a much, much better approach. I wonder if it was ever considered. And if not, which is likely the case, it reiterates the fact that DVC is solely in it for the money and not for the customer experience.

Giving something extra costs money, taking something away saves it. Of course they are all about the money. They, like every other public company have an obligation to shareholders. They are going to provide the lowest level of service that they can get away with. Just so happens that in the case of Disney, that level is still pretty high, as we have high expectations of them.

Not saying this is right or wrong, just saying it IS.

I do agree, giving something extra would have been a nice thing. Then again, maybe they can in the future. If they subsidize a lot fewer APs, maybe they can have a budget for more for direct members. Not holding my breath however.

 

[Opie100]

It seems to me that this is good news for those who are already grandfathered in that plan to buy more points, as it will likely drive resale prices down without losing benefits (due to being grandfathered). On the other hand, this will impact overall demand for DVC, because you'll get less for the points when it's time to sell, which is something buyers consider.

 

[ell13]

Giving something extra costs money, taking something away saves it. Of course they are all about the money. They, like every other public company have an obligation to shareholders. They are going to provide the lowest level of service that they can get away with. Just so happens that in the case of Disney, that level is still pretty high, as we have high expectations of them.

Not saying this is right or wrong, just saying it IS.

I do agree, giving something extra would have been a nice thing. Then again, maybe they can in the future. If they subsidize a lot fewer APs, maybe they can have a budget for more for direct members. Not holding my breath however.

And how long before they create a 4th tier? New Direct Members could get benefits all other members don't. And I don't mean the one-time incentives.

 

[suebeelin]

I'm still ambivalent about this sudden change. We bought in March 2011 just to avoid the restrictions, although we've never used nor wanted the perks.

In fact, I wish we bought in fall 2011 bc the resale prices plunged precipitously.... Those restrictions meant naught in retrospect.

We bought again in 2014 bc we were starting to borrow. Will I kick myself again? If prices plunge, I'll be bummed.

 

[jrpeterson5]

So if I already own and purchase points resale after 4/2016 - Will I still have membership perks on the prior owned points or do I effectively loose all perks after a resale purchase from this day forward? What am I missing here? Can't I just use membership perks on my old ownerships from this day forward? Thanks for clarifying!

 

[dsnydaddy]

I was told a few years ago by a DVC insider that DVC would try to have member dues pay for all activities, mingles, parities, anything that they could.

Now with restricting resale buyers does this mean that Disney/DVD is paying for everything other than the paid for events or are restricted owners paying for events that they can't attend?

Bill

That is the $24,000 Question!

 

[newdeal]

when I bought DVC I factored in the DVC annual pass discount as why it made more sense to own DVC than it did to just stay at a resort. The maintenance fees were basically offset by the savings on annual passes for my family. I was already thinking of selling my DVC contract but now I am reconsidering because if I buy back in in the future I will lose my benefits that I have right now. So it goes both ways, will fewer people sell their DVC contracts now that they will lose their benefits if they buy back in in the future? If fewer people sell that will certainly stabilize resale prices. Also if prices go down and Disney starts buying points back with ROFR that will also stabilize the resale prices

 

[DVC Mike]

As usual, a change like this will fire up the boards for a few days, but longer term I don't think DVC sales will be harmed by this change. True, DVC will lose the goodwill of some existing members who think this is yet another of the changes that are making DVC more like a typical timeshare and less of how they envisioned DVC.

I don't think DVC would make such a business decision without considering the pros and cons that would result. Disney obviously feels that this will help their direct sales more than hurt them. We can argue about whether they are right or wrong, but only time will tell.


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