Reservation Walking Banned by Disney

[CarolynFH]

Oh yea I remember seeing that mentioned before, have done it for like NYE in prior years I think?

Do they still do it?

We were informed of it when touring in 1994 but I can’t remember whether it was still in use by the time we bought in 1997. We didn’t plan to visit at Christmas/NYE so I didn’t pay attention to when they stopped it.

 

[Genie+]

In one way it sort of is…because we are guaranteed to have access to all rooms on a first come, first serve basis, subject to availability

Could saying I can’t grab a certain date because I made a reservation already for dates prior go against that?

Modification rules do need to be consistent and not too complicated depending on the date one books…and I am sure that most owners would want to see that.

First come first serve at 11 months. Not at 13 or 15 months? We are all guaranteed to get access at 11 months. When people are accessing at 13 or 15 months it is arguable against the terms of service but also depriving owners booking at 11 months as the contract states we all have equal access to that availability.

An argument can be made that walking is against the 11 month TOS. An even better argument can be made against commercial renting which is explicitly prohibited in our contracts and we even needed to verbally state understanding that before purchasing direct.

Nothing in DVC protects the ability to start booking at something like 13 months out. Doesn’t bother me much today. The concern is following the ever increasing trajectory of the last 5 years, and ending up unable to ever book the same 50% of home categories without joining in on excessive walking or deploying bot scripts in attempt to outrun commercial renters. Basically those rooms could cease to exist for owners who just want to try their shot at 11 months like their contract implies.

Right now non-walkers are locked out 77% of BWV booking categories, over 60% at BLT, 50% BCV, almost 50% Kidani, 100% of VGF, over 60% of CCV. Ok, understandably this is DVC high season for booking and probably as bas as it gets but it’s already an issue and each year Walking and Commercial Spec Renting keeps increasing significantly.

I get people are wary of DVC making changes. Better the devil you know, right? Is it certain to be a net negative to most owners who just want to use DVC for their personal use and not have 99.9% chance of never getting a bunch of rooms and seasons unless they start booking 13-15 months and playing DVC olympics? I’m not sure.

 

[tx911]

In one way it sort of is…because we are guaranteed to have access to all rooms on a first come, first serve basis, subject to availability

Walkers are booking rooms for dates that they have no intention of actually staying at, well ahead of the 11 month window, to guarantee that they are "first come" at 11 months. This guarantees unequal access for someone who is using the service as intended and not booking until the 11 month window opens.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I would think most people are non walkers at 11months and writing a computer program is not that costly in my opinion as a former IT manager and Disney had the money.

Disney IT is involved. Any program they write to limit walks will probably also shave everyone's head by accident, remove points randomly from future UY, and accidentally destroy the plumbing at Aulani.

 

[tx911]

Disney IT is involved. Any program they write to limit walks will probably also shave everyone's head by accident, remove points randomly from future UY, and accidentally destroy the plumbing at Aulani.

That is hysterically funny!

 

[JETSDAD]

Walkers are booking rooms for dates that they have no intention of actually staying at, well ahead of the 11 month window, to guarantee that they are "first come" at 11 months. This guarantees unequal access for someone who is using the service as intended and not booking until the 11 month window opens.

Walkers still have to make an 11 month reservation at some point and are competing with others to do so. The system is equal, how people choose to use it is their choice.

 

[DonMacGregor]

If you're making a dozen or more changes to a single reservation, you're not doing that to accommodate some change in plans or a hike in airfare, or adding the in-laws to the New Years trip. It doesn't really bother me at this point, but the argument that even changing the system to allow 7 or 8 modifications would adversely affect someone beggars belief.

 

[Tatebeck]

They could get rid of the commercial renters abusing walking by limiting the modification of the guests on a reservation instead of the number of modifications.

Say that after 2 or 3 date modifications, you are limited to editing only 2 of the room's guests for example. After walking 2 or 3 times, the reservation could warn you that the reservation will be locked into your family. You can still edit one or two people if a person or couple drop out of the trip, but cannot sign the whole reservation over to a new family/whole set of new guests. It would limit longer term walking to those who at least know a partial makeup of their actual party who will be staying with the reservation without limiting the number of date modifications.

If something crazy happens you can just cancel the trip like normal (which is what you would probably do if for example 3 out of your 4 family or friends cancel).

 

[tx911]

Walkers still have to make an 11 month reservation at some point and are competing with others to do so. The system is equal, how people choose to use it is their choice.

The moment that the week you are booking overlaps my desired week, you are eliminating a room that I could have booked for my week, even though you have no intention of staying there. The fact that "anyone can do it" is a poor defense.

 

[CarolMN]

If forced to do something, this is what I would do:

During the first two months of the home resort priority booking period, I would not allow any modifications that dropped nights at the beginning of a reservation. To drop a beginning night you would have to cancel & rebook. That would risk losing the reservation to the waitlist.

Adding nights would be allowed to accommodate those who want a stay longer than 7 nights. Allowing all modifications at 9 months would accommodate those who want to adjust a day or so for better airfares.

This would stop the VAST majority of walkers and require only a minimal change to the booking software.

 

[JETSDAD]

The moment that the week you are booking overlaps my desired week, you are eliminating a room that I could have booked for my week, even though you have no intention of staying there. The fact that "anyone can do it" is a poor defense.

In a first come first served system, 'anyone can do it' is the most fair it can be. Once you start adding restrictions then you're going to end up giving someone an advantage over someone else.

 

[tx911]

In one way it sort of is…because we are guaranteed to have access to all rooms on a first come, first serve basis, subject to availability

Could saying I can’t grab a certain date because I made a reservation already for dates prior go against that?

Modification rules do need to be consistent and not too complicated depending on the date one books…and I am sure that most owners would want to see that.

My main gripe is this:

When I make a reservation, I understand that I am in competition for a limited number of rooms with all the other owners of my home resort who want to stay on those dates. And I'm fine with that.

What I don't like is that I have to compete with not only the above owners, but also all the walkers. It effectively decreases my odds of getting the room I want because I'm competing with a larger pool of owners than I normally would be.

Therefore, the system is not working as intended. I am not just competing with owners who want to stay in rooms the same dates I do. Looks wrong, feels wrong, is wrong.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'll say this one thing, and be done with this discussion:

Those who use feel that the POS/contract got everything right the first time and that neither needs nor should be subject to any review or revisions, should spend some time reading the US Constitution. The Constitution, inarguably the greatest single document addressing the governance of a free people in the history of mankind, has been amended twenty-seven times (an additional six were proposed but never ratified, and yes, the 21st repeals the 18th), even though it was written by one of the greatest assemblies of critical thinkers ever.

Now, I'm not saying a DVC POS is on-par with the Constitution, but if we're going to stick with the "if it ain't broke" argument, lets go ahead and repeal a few more of those 27 Amendments. Take your picks.

*ETA: when the original POS was written, and for most of the intervening time, reservations could only be made via a phone call to Member Services, so the possibility of "walking" a reservation didn't even exist when the POS and contracts were originally written.

I'm out.

 

[tom1944]

Is walking only used by people at their home resort or do people walk using SAP?

 

[Tatebeck]

Usually just at 11 months at your home resort. You can try at 7 months but it can be interrupted if a home resort member books close to the 7 month booking window before it becomes available for you

 

[J-Dog]

And I believe they do. Being able to use your points on a first come first serve basis for whatever reservations you want and being able to change reservations as much as one needs to gives members a great program.

Limiting owners from modifications would be a step in the wrong direction and my guess is the majority of owners, if asked, would not want changes to that flexibility.

I’ll go so far to say that the vast majority of owners don’t even know about walking because outside of the fall into the holidays, even when it happens, it’s limited..

Plus, they do have a way to help with very popular rooms and that is the special list. I just believe any limits to modifications would be far worse.

Yes, I agree. That's what I was saying earlier in the thread.

When people on FB groups are still asking multiple times per month "how do I sell my DVC points?/Will Disney buy my points back if I don't want them?", I'm going to guess that those same people have never heard of walking either.

 

[tx911]

Is walking only used by people at their home resort or do people walk using SAP?

See the whole point of walking is to book a week of dates that are NOT in high demand, therefore competing with only a small number of owners 11 months prior to those low-demand dates.

Then, the walker moves the booked dates forward step by step. Eventually, it will partially overlap the high-demand week that is wanted, thereby blocking other owners who want to book the whole week. The walker may walk on through to another high-demand week, or not.

This process won't work at 7 months, at least for a high-demand week, because all the owners who can book at 11 months will have booked the rooms before the walker can.

 

[tom1944]

See the whole point of walking is to book a week of dates that are NOT in high demand, therefore competing with only a small number of owners 11 months prior to those low-demand dates.

Then, the walker moves the booked dates forward step by step. Eventually, it will partially overlap the high-demand week that is wanted, thereby blocking other owners who want to book the whole week. The walker may walk on through to another high-demand week, or not.

This process won't work at 7 months, at least for a high-demand week, because all the owners who can book at 11 months will have booked the rooms before the walker can.

But can’t they just walk 4 months longer?

 

[tx911]

But can’t they just walk 4 months longer?

They have to overlap your week before you get there. If they can't overlap your dates sooner than 7 months from them, you, as an owner, will have already booked them 4 months ago.

Let's say the desired dates are 11/20-27. As a non-owner walking, the soonest you can overlap the 20th is 7 months prior to 11/13, or 4/13.

If I'm an owner at that resort, I've already booked 11/20-27 on 12/20. So you can't block me. I blocked you.

At least, this is how I understand it.

 

[Sandisw]

But can’t they just walk 4 months longer?

Sure you can but the point is that as long as an owner of a resort can jump in and book, you will lose the walk as a non owner

By the time 7 months rolls around you are already going to know up to 11 months what has been booked by owners.

For example, right now a non resort owner already knows what owners have done for August through November at their home resorts so even if one wants November, starting a walk now won’t matter if those are booked even if end of July is not.