Reservation Walking Banned by Disney

[starry_solo]

Didn't we already have this conversation within the past few months? Someone posts a title without a question mark, making us think something has happened, etc....

 

[J-Dog]

Didn't we already have this conversation within the past few months? Someone posts a title without a question mark, making us think something has happened, etc....

Lol. Yeah, the title was very click-bait-y.

 

[Sandisw]

Walkers are booking rooms for dates that they have no intention of actually staying at, well ahead of the 11 month window, to guarantee that they are "first come" at 11 months. This guarantees unequal access for someone who is using the service as intended and not booking until the 11 month window opens.

Since it’s the same system for all, it is…I am entitled to book a night with my points and keep it for as many nights as I want and cancel it whenever I want.

So, yes, if I get a room today and release it to tomorrow it’s fair because everyone else who was trying to book it had the same chance as me.

That’s why I am not in favor of stricter modification rules. I’d rather deal with walkers than be forced into penalties for modifying trips later on.

 

[tx911]

Since it’s the same system for all, it is…

So, yes, if I get a room today and release it to tomorrow it’s fair because everyone else who was trying to book it had the same chance as me.

This is only true if everyone walks reservations.

I believe that most DVCers do not walk for one reason or another. I doubt the majority of owners, certainly new owners, even know what walking is.

Therefore, the non-walking majority is forced to compete with more owners at 11 months than they normally would compete with. Owners who legitimately want to stay on particular dates plus the walkers who are just moving through. Plus the fact that the walkers had a head start and overlapped your dates before the 11 month window opened.

I personally do not want every DVC owner out there to have to walk reservations in order for the system to be fair. What a PITA. And the irony is that if everyone did it, there would be no benefit in doing it!

Much better IMO, if no one did it. Then the system would work as I think it was intended to. But, it's probably not going to happen

 

[Sandisw]

Walkers are booking rooms for dates that they have no intention of actually staying at, well ahead of the 11 month window, to guarantee that they are "first come" at 11 months. This guarantees unequal access for someone who is using the service as intended and not booking until the 11 month window opens.

They are still booking a room right at 11 months but they are simply not keeping it for very long.

That is why I said…to change this they have to change the system to penalize people when they modify trips.

How long should someone be forced to keep a trip before changing or canceling then? One month, two month?

Can you add? Is the penalty only for when a trip booked right at 11 months? What happens if the booking starts a few days into the window? Can those be changed?

Lots of situations that can come up that would have to be dealt with unless it’s a cancel and rebook every single time. And that would not be good for anyone.

 

[Genie+]

In a first come first served system, 'anyone can do it' is the most fair it can be. Once you start adding restrictions then you're going to end up giving someone an advantage over someone else.

The contracts say owners get equal access for home booking at 11 months on a first come first serve basis.

First come first serve does not apply beyond 11 months in our contracts for normal DVC bookings.

11 month equal access is the standard within our contracts; ‘anybody can do it [walk]’ is not.

Enforcing the existing contract is not the same as adding restrictions. The contracts are already written in such a way that walking is not a right or reasonable expectation of ownership. Equal access at 11 months is a right and reasonable expectation of ownership, with no time or energy requirement beforehand necessary to get that equal shot.

The practice of walking violates that 11 month equal access. It forces the need to walk on owners wanting to obtain that 11 month equal access, but that is already their right with no strings attached. The contract consistently suggests equal footing at 11 months and never mentions additional hoops needed outside that timeframe to secure those ownership rights. The current disadvantage is to owners who’d prefer their contract honored.

eta - Same if home window changed since still applies across all owners without fixed week.

 

[Sandisw]

This is only true if everyone walks reservations.

I believe that most DVCers do not walk for one reason or another. I doubt the majority of owners, certainly new owners, even know what walking is.

Therefore, the non-walking majority is forced to compete with more owners at 11 months than they normally would compete with. Owners who legitimately want to stay on particular dates plus the walkers who are just moving through. Plus the fact that the walkers had a head start and overlapped your dates before the 11 month window opened.

I personally do not want every DVC owner out there to have to walk reservations in order for the system to be fair. What a PITA. And the irony is that if everyone did it, there would be no benefit in doing it!

Much better IMO, if no one did it. Then the system would work as I think it was intended to. But, it's probably not going to happen

Fair is not the same as equal…It doesn’t matter if everyone chooses to do or not do something but hafe the opportunity.

And, because most owners do not walk and most of the problems are with rooms that would be hard to get even without walking it would be the same. Which is why I believe DVC hasn’t changed the modification rules because to fix this small problem..I consider it small…they might have to make unpopular changes that have nothing to do with the walkers.

If there are a 100 rooms and 1000 people want them, walking or not, 900 are disappointed. Even now, as soon as someone gets locked out of a room it’s walking…when that may not be the case.

AKV CL books every day at 8 am year round, so walking or not, a maximum of 10 reservations can happen and chances of getting a room are still poor.

 

[tx911]

They are still booking a room right at 11 months but they are simply not keeping it for very long.

That is why I said…to change this they have to change the system to penalize people when they modify trips.

How long should someone be forced to keep a trip before changing or canceling then? One month, two month?

Can you add? Is the penalty only for when a trip booked right at 11 months? What happens if the booking starts a few days into the window? Can those be changed?

Lots of situations that can come up that would have to be dealt with unless it’s a cancel and rebook every single time. And that would not be good for anyone.

It is very easy to see when a reservation is being walked. It is moved forward in a stepwise fashion numerous times at regular intervals, and the ultimate reservation is far-removed from the original dates booked.

How often does this happen for legitimate reservations? I would wager virtually never.

Walking looks very different from legitimate modifications to reservations. And if those two can be distinguished, then one can be limited, if someone cares enough to address it, which is doubtful.

 

[JETSDAD]

The contracts say owners get equal access for home booking at 11 months on a first come first serve basis.

First come first serve does not apply beyond 11 months in our contracts for normal DVC bookings.

11 month equal access is the standard within our contracts; ‘anybody can do it [walk]’ is not.

Enforcing the existing contract is not the same as adding restrictions. The contracts are already written in such a way that walking is not a right or reasonable expectation of ownership. Equal access at 11 months is a right and reasonable expectation of ownership, with no time or energy requirement beforehand necessary to get that equal shot.

The practice of walking violates that 11 month equal access. It forces the need to walk on owners wanting to obtain that 11 month equal access, but that is already their right with no strings attached. The contract consistently suggests equal footing at 11 months and never mentions additional hoops needed outside that timeframe to secure those ownership rights. The current disadvantage is to owners who’d prefer their contract honored.

Nobody is making a reservation outside of 11 months. Everybody has access to 11 month bookings and everybody has the ability to modify reservations. We can be blocked when others have reservations that we want....that's the first come first served part.

 

[tx911]

Fair is not the same as quest. . It doesn’t matter if everyone chooses to do or not do something but hafe the opportunity.

And, because most owners do not walk and most of the problems are with rooms that would be hard to get even without walking it would be the same. Which is why I believe DVC hasn’t changed the modification rules because to fix this small problem..I consider it small…they might have to make unpopular changes that have nothing to do with the walkers.

If there are a 100 rooms and 1000 people want them, walking or not, 900 are disappointed. Even now, as soon as someone gets locked out of a room it’s walking…when that may not be the case.

AKV CL books every day at 8 am year round, so walking or not, a maximum of 10 reservations can happen and chances of getting a room are still poor.

As I've said many times, if I'm competing with other owners for a limited number of rooms and I don't get one at 11 months for that reason, I'm fine with it.

That is not what happens with walking.

Anyway, doubtful this will change. Just very unfortunate that the only way for DVC to work as intended is for every owner to walk reservations.

 

[Sandisw]

The contracts say owners get equal access for home booking at 11 months on a first come first serve basis.

First come first serve does not apply beyond 11 months in our contracts for normal DVC bookings.

11 month equal access is the standard within our contracts; ‘anybody can do it [walk]’ is not.

Enforcing the existing contract is not the same as adding restrictions. The contracts are already written in such a way that walking is not a right or reasonable expectation of ownership. Equal access at 11 months is a right and reasonable expectation of ownership, with no time or energy requirement beforehand necessary to get that equal shot.

The practice of walking violates that 11 month equal access. It forces the need to walk on owners wanting to obtain that 11 month equal access, but that is already their right with no strings attached. The contract consistently suggests equal footing at 11 months and never mentions additional hoops needed outside that timeframe to secure those ownership rights. The current disadvantage is to owners who’d prefer their contract honored.

How? It says you can book a room at 11 months?

Where does it say you have to be positive you will travel? I know that sounds snarky, and it’s not meant to be, but that is what it comes down to in the technical sense

I currently have nights booked in the next year that have little chance of being used..but guess what, I might decide to go and want my SV rooms secured in case I do.

So, I won’t cancel until I am 100% sure I am not going.

In the end, I just don’t see how they simply can make a system that is going to penalize walkers without penalizing those who don’t

And, if changes happen , people will find a way around things, especially lsrgrr point owners who might hold rooms longer

 

[tx911]

Nobody is making a reservation outside of 11 months. Everybody has access to 11 month bookings and everybody has the ability to modify reservations. We can be blocked when others have reservations that we want....that's the first come first served part.

You are gaming the system. You are booking rooms at low-demand weeks to avoid honest competition for desirable dates. Then walking that booking forward to eventually block part of the desired week.

 

[tx911]

How? It says you can book a room at 11 months?

Where does it say you have to be positive you will travel? I know that sounds snarky, and it’s not meant to be, but that is what it comes down to in the technical sense

I currently have nights booked in the next year that have little chance of being used..but guess what, I might decide to go and want my SV rooms secured in case I do.

So, I won’t cancel until I am 100% sure I am not going.

In the end, I just don’t see how they simply can make a system that is going to penalize walkers without penalizing those who don’t

And, if changes happen , people will find a way around things, especially lsrgrr point owners who might hold rooms longer

The fact remains, the only way DVC is a fair competition for rooms as things stand is for everyone to walk reservations.

That's a broken system.

You can say, "But we can't try to fix it because the fix might not be right either", but I think that's a cop-out.

 

[Sandisw]

It is very easy to see when a reservation is being walked. It is moved forward in a stepwise fashion numerous times at regular intervals, and the ultimate reservation is far-removed from the original dates booked.

How often does this happen for legitimate reservations? I would wager virtually never.

Walking looks very different from legitimate modifications to reservations. And if those two can be distinguished, then one can be limited, if someone cares enough to address it, which is doubtful.

That’s the thing…the home resort rules have to be consistent and I think it would be very hard to make a system that has vague rules on when and how often you can modify a reservation.

As I mentioned, this isn’t about caring. It’s about setting up a system that is consistent for all owners.

Any change to current rules is adding a penalty and I just don’t believe owners, as a whole would want that and I bet DVC would also view it as a step backward and not forward.

Now, if they want to say trips booked before 10 months can not be modified..all must be cancel and a rebook, then it could help…but they would change the number of total nights from 7 to 21 for those from overseas who book long trips.

But even that could still impact someone who finds out months later they need to adjust and can’t because they booked at 11 months and can not modify it all.

 

[lowlight]

There is nothing fair about walking. Take 10 rooms of a certain category. 9 are walked 13 months out. Twenty people want the last room and log on the day of 11 month booking. 9 are guaranteed the room and have 100 percent chance, and 20 have a 5 percent chance of getting the room. That is fair? You can’t say “most people don’t even know about walking” and “everyone can walk if they want to so it’s fair” in the same breath.

How about when you book a room, you can make unlimited changes like it is now within that 11 month window. So you book a room from 12/15/24 to 12/20/24, you can make unlimited modifications from 12/15/24 back to 1/15/24? But for any date past that initial date you need to cancel and rebook or create a whole new reservation and have them merged at some point. Maybe that won’t work either, but something has to change.

 

[Genie+]

Nobody is making a reservation outside of 11 months. Everybody has access to 11 month bookings and everybody has the ability to modify reservations. We can be blocked when others have reservations that we want....that's the first come first served part.

Over and over and over again because they already know they don’t want to keep it. Fine, just don’t want to be forced to do that otherwise have zero access ever to half our home resort categories and seasons.

If booking reverts back to years ago when walking didn’t work, everyone still gets that 11 month booking too.

 

[Chuck S]

Actually, you know, this isn't just about walking. It is about too many small point contract owners in the system, too.

For instrance, say there are 10 studio rooms for 100 points for the week at a resort, and every owner wants to travel at the same time. Now say there are 5000 points total sold for that resort. If every own had 350 points, that would be 14 owners vying for those 10 rooms. Now say that instead, there are now 50 owners with 100 points at the resort, that is 50 people vying for those rooms instead of 14. The original buy in for DVC was 230 pointsm which also, by default, spreads room usage out to fewer members, cutting down on owner to room ratio. They could have sold small contracts, but stipulated that they are add-ons to the main contract, and not available to be sold seperately, to maintain the owner to room ratio to benefit all owners.

 

[tx911]

Didn't we already have this conversation within the past few months? Someone posts a title without a question mark, making us think something has happened, etc....

I was actually a little giddy for a second when I read the title

 

[Chuck S]

If booking reverts back to years ago when walking didn’t work, everyone still gets that 11 month booking too.

Actually, walking worked almsot the same years ago. Even though we could book based on our check-out date instead of check-in date, you could still change dates.

Say you wanted a stay January 1 to January 5. And on January 5, you booked December 1 to 5, then you changed to December 2 to December 6 and so on until you got January 1 to 5. It only meant you needed to modify the reservation each day, instead of every other day or so. You'd still be blocking out December rooms you had no intention of using, and moving the reservation forward daily.

 

[tx911]

That’s the thing…the home resort rules have to be consistent and I think it would be very hard to make a system that has vague rules on when and how often you can modify a reservation.

As I mentioned, this isn’t about caring. It’s about setting up a system that is consistent for all owners.

Any change to current rules is adding a penalty and I just don’t believe owners, as a whole would want that and I bet DVC would also view it as a step backward and not forward.

Now, if they want to say trips booked before 10 months can not be modified..all must be cancel and a rebook, then it could help…but they would change the number of total nights from 7 to 21 for those from overseas who book long trips.

But even that could still impact someone who finds out months later they need to adjust and can’t because they booked at 11 months and can not modify it all.

I'm just spit-balling, so this may be awful, but how would this work?

What if you could only make modifications within a month of the dates you initially booked?

Anything beyond that would require a complete re-booking?

I guess you could still walk within the month so probably not a great solution....