Are you using Tailwind for salt/potassium/electrolytes or for fueling/carbs? Or both? 4 scoops in only 4oz of water is pretty highly concentrated. I use 8-10 scoops for a 90km ride in 750ml bike bottles.
Both for electrolytes and for carbs. It ends up being 3 scoops in about 4-5oz in a Hammer Nutrition 5oz bottle. Here's my current marathon (and training run greater than 90 min) nutrition strategy. I will say, when I was indoor cycling my hydration needs were far less than when I'm running outside. I'm also much less versed on the recommend carbs per hr consumption rate of cycling vs running, but I do believe the cycling carb value is much less.
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I consume about 93-96g carbs per hr, but that includes my 17oz Maurten 320 w/ 79g carbs right before the start. During my training runs, I usually do a 4.08 mile loop that includes me going past my house twice in a half mile loop. Once to pick up liquid and once to drop it back off. I do these loops anywhere from 27 min to 37 min depending on the specifics of the training run. Each time I stop to pick up a bottle that contains about 18-24oz. So in an hour, I usually drink about 36-48oz of water. I am on the high side for both water consumption and carb consumption during races.
minus 15 min - Maurten 320
*Needs 0oz water to absorb b/c liquid based
45 min - Tailwind Concentrate
*Needs ~11.0 oz of water to absorb (~1.5oz of water + 1 scoop of tailwind (25g carbs) plus an additional 11.0 oz of water)
60 min - Maurten Caff gel
*Needs 0oz water to absorb b/c isotonic
75 min - Egel
*Needs 18.5oz water to absorb (37g carb)
105 min - Tailwind Concentrate
*Needs ~11.0 oz of water to absorb (~1.5oz of water + 1 scoop of tailwind (25g carbs) plus an additional 11.0 oz of water)
120 min - Maurten Caff gel
*Needs 0oz water to absorb b/c isotonic
135 min - Egel
*Needs 18.5oz water to absorb (37g carb)
165 min - Tailwind Concentrate
*Needs ~11.0 oz of water to absorb (~1.5oz of water + 1 scoop of tailwind (25g carbs) plus an additional 11.0 oz of water)
So during my run, I need 33 oz of water for Tailwind and 37 oz of water for Egels (I need nothing for Maurten 320 or Maurten gels). So a total of 70oz of water minimally to absorb the carbs I consume that are not already isotonic. During a 2.5hr long training run I would drink a bottle at (32, 64, 96, and 128 min). So that's about 84oz of water give or take. I drink somewhat based on how thirsty I am in the process of running. So sometimes on the higher end, and sometimes on the lower end.
During a race, I aim for two water cups per aid station with the assumption they hold about 3oz per. I choose races that have a high aid station per mile ratio. The Madison M is 19 aid stations in 26.2 miles or 0.7 aid stations per mile. If I drink 6oz per aid station X 19 aid stations, then I'll consume about 114oz during the 3.25 hr race. So that's about 35 oz per hr. Compared to my training maximum of 84oz per 2.5hrs equaling 33.6 oz per hr. So about the same. One strategy I have used in the past, but don't these days as often, is carry a small water bottle in my hand that I would refill at aid stations as I ran past while pouring the water into the bottle. But during training runs, I stick to doing loops in my neighborhood so I can keep hitting my house.
The per hour and total consumption of carbs and electrolytes is below.
I've gone with multiple sources for nutrition intake during racing because each have their own set of pros/cons.
Maurten 320
Pro - High carb/oz content.
Con - Requires 17oz per packet dilution, thus requiring me to carry a significant volume. Lacks potassium and Na content at 17oz is lower than Tailwind. Expensive.
Maurten gels
Pro - Isotonic and requires no water to absorb
Con - Lacks meaningful Na and K. Expensive.
Egel
Pro - High Carb per packet. High Na and K content compared to other gels. Cheaper gel than most comparables.
Con - As a sole source would require carrying 7 gels to equal my current protocol.
Tailwind
Pro - Cheap. Cheap. Cheap. Concentrateable up to 1 scoop per 1.5 oz. High Na and K content. Source of carbs.
Con - Still requires 1oz water per 2g carb to absorb. So would need 139 oz water to properly absorb.
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