Scathing report from Frommer's on Genie+/LL

Cool! You should consider frequenting boards about things you do like, will probably save you a few years of life. Out of sight out of mind as they say!
You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about me. I've been on this forum for 25 years, I've come and gone at times, I used to be a moderator back in the early days. While I have reasons I will not financially support Disney it doesn't mean that I don't hope and wish that Disney will stop being Di$ney. You can I can disagree and still be in the forums, so you be you.. and I'll be me.
 
You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about me. I've been on this forum for 25 years, I've come and gone at times, I used to be a moderator back in the early days. While I have reasons I will not financially support Disney it doesn't mean that I don't hope and wish that Disney will stop being Di$ney. You can I can disagree and still be in the forums, so you be you.. and I'll be me.
When you say things like, "Seriously try taking a break, there is a whole lot to do that doesn't feed the mouse." you shouldn't be irritated when people "assume" they understand your attitude.
 
Yesterday was a beautiful day in So. California (after some rain we are unaccustomed to lol)... I arrived late in the day and Disneyland was so full it was uncomfortable, and frankly, seemed to be more Security than Cleaning people around - I saw a Lot of trash on the ground.

I moved over to California Adventure and while some rides were still a long wait, did not feel as shoulder-to-shoulder although both Cars ride and Incredicoaster seemed "down" at the same time? If I'd taken a "newbie" with me to Disneyland yesterday, my guess is they'd never return :(

On the plus side - World of Color ONE was awesome, and the Mobile Order system for food makes food lines easy.

Radiator Springs Racers is down for a refurb this week.
 
You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about me. I've been on this forum for 25 years, I've come and gone at times, I used to be a moderator back in the early days. While I have reasons I will not financially support Disney it doesn't mean that I don't hope and wish that Disney will stop being Di$ney. You can I can disagree and still be in the forums, so you be you.. and I'll be me.

So when did you start your Disney boycott and what brought it on? I'm genuinely interested because to me, it feels like the Disney company has pretty much always been about the $$$.
 


Yesterday was a beautiful day in So. California (after some rain we are unaccustomed to lol)... I arrived late in the day and Disneyland was so full it was uncomfortable, and frankly, seemed to be more Security than Cleaning people around - I saw a Lot of trash on the ground.

I moved over to California Adventure and while some rides were still a long wait, did not feel as shoulder-to-shoulder although both Cars ride and Incredicoaster seemed "down" at the same time? If I'd taken a "newbie" with me to Disneyland yesterday, my guess is they'd never return :(

On the plus side - World of Color ONE was awesome, and the Mobile Order system for food makes food lines easy.
Radiator Springs is down for refurbishment I believe. Was incredicoaster down all day?

When I went to Universal as a kid, The Battlestar Galactica part of the tram ride was down. I was so disappointed I've never returned.....

just kidding, it made me eager to go again and harass my parents about going so I could see the attraction. I guess it could happen where someone was so disappointed a ride was down they vowed never to return to a park though it seems a bit extreme.
 
You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about me. I've been on this forum for 25 years, I've come and gone at times, I used to be a moderator back in the early days. While I have reasons I will not financially support Disney it doesn't mean that I don't hope and wish that Disney will stop being Di$ney. You can I can disagree and still be in the forums, so you be you.. and I'll be me.
SteveH has been around a long time and we've had some great discussions. I am sorry this thread has led to some contentious posting, and I think there are valid points to be made about money becoming a more primary focus for the company. Maybe in the past, a family company like Disney had more control over how things were managed, but I think those days are pretty much gone. Today's business is conducted by some mixture of shareholders and executives in a game that is completely outside of my understanding other than that profit is often valued above all and doesn't necessarily have the buffer of the creators' wishes. I had the impression that it was less true in the past when a company like Disney, which began as a family enterprise, had more autonomy. But Disney has often had its ups and downs depending on management and economic pressures, which isn't surprising over the course of almost 7 decades.

Personally, I still love Disneyland. The world has also changed dramatically since I was a kid and I don't like a lot of those changes either, but I'm still going to enjoy the good things while I can.

Oh, and SteveH has some terrific tiki drink recipes! Thanks for passing some of those along to me, Steve!
 
So when did you start your Disney boycott and what brought it on? I'm genuinely interested because to me, it feels like the Disney company has pretty much always been about the $$$.
Fair question, a few things really bothered me...
  • When they changed the evening access to Deluxe guests, that really chapped my hide snubbing the Moderate and Value guests really soured me - plus, know we're big fans of Swan/Dolphin, but to allow S/D guests to use it doesn't make sense. Just one of the many "cash grab" aspect of Disney that has turned me off.
  • Next has been their abysmal run with some awful movies, I could care less how much money they make but the story telling aspect has tanked. Instead of good story telling it's story telling with an agenda. Which would be fine if the story telling was done well, but it hasn't been. The box office results show that a lot of people are unhappy with their movies too. Which is sad, Disney movies always about great stories to our family
  • We joined up for the three year deal with D+ but when it expired it was so easy to walk away and not miss it. What they did during Covid with the Mandalorian was AMAZING, but then things seemed to go down hill year after year, when they put dancing with the stars I knew I was done.
  • Finally, we did our 1999 Disneyland trip and 2000 trip to WDW and we were already booked to go for the 50th Anniversary for our 30ht Anniversary, but Disney failed us, the park reservation change meant we wouldn't be able to be at MK on the 50th, Tron wasn't open and worst of all the railroad was STILL down. We worked with our TA to bail on Disney and to to Hawaii & Maui - that trip is what told us it was time to take a break from our Disney trips. We've since been back the Islands twice - we loved our Disney trips with our kids and as empty nesters, but we don't miss all the preplanning and stress of dealing with G+ and etc.
 


Okay...so I'm getting the vibe that you don't like "woke" Disney. Am I way off base there? Or maybe you just aren't a fan of the female-led movies/shows? I don't know...I guess I haven't seen anything that was solely made with some "agenda" in mind. But, I also haven't seen a lot of the recent stuff so maybe I just missed it.

Also, you make it seem like people either take Disney vacations OR they take non-Disney vacations. But it's not an either/or situation. Many of us take Disney trips and also non-Disney trips too.
 
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I agree. Not only does genie+ make the regular lines longer but the longest lines in the park aren't even included in genie+. You need the more expensive lightening lanes. Keep in mind that when Disney introduced fast passes, it was only for 1 or 2 rides in the park. By adding genie+ to most of the rides, it slows down all lines, creating a worse guest experience.

I appreciate that Universal doesn't include Hagrid's in its Express pass. It's the most popular ride in the park and if they added Express to it, it would make the lines even longer for everyone else. In my book, Universal comes out on top for not decreasing the experience on Hagrid's for those without Express. If Disney got rid of lightning lanes and kept their most popular rides as normal standby lines for everyone, or if Disney offered lightening lanes for their 2 hottest rides per park and got rid of genie+, I think most of the lines would move faster and people would be happier in general. It would also simplify guests' planning.
Unfortunately, Disney currently doesn’t prioritize people being happier in general. They prioritize increasing shareholder value as much as possible, while walking the fine line of not losing too many guests permanently (without being able to replace them). Things like G+ make a lot of money for Disney and cost them very little. This is a win-win from an economic view point for them. I don’t think anything will change until or unless the guest experience is so degraded by these types of financial decisions that guests stop coming and spending money with Disney. If people stop spending (and no others replace them), then Disney may change something here. If not, I personally think they will keep pushing the pricing up, the upcharges up, etc, until they find the inflection point. The executives are charged with (and paid more for) increasing shareholder value year over year, quarter over quarter. If you look at the decisions they make, with this in mind, it will make more sense (not that I agree with it).
 
When you say things like, "Seriously try taking a break, there is a whole lot to do that doesn't feed the mouse." you shouldn't be irritated when people "assume" they understand your attitude.
Right!? I specifically love that phrase and these ones, they sum it up pretty good.

Instead of good story telling it's story telling with an agenda.

Finally, we did our 1999 Disneyland trip and 2000 trip to WDW
yet the Disney addicts can’t seem to see what’s going on and they just keep forking over more and more money.

The condescending attitude about ppl who visit the parks being ignorant fools that just keep throwing money at Disney because apparently we can't understand how awesome it was in 1999 (never mind the fact that I have engaged siblings who hadn't been born yet in 1999). Or how we so dumb we only spend our money "feeding the mouse" instead of going out into the real world. Awesome attitude. The agenda comment above really made the whole thing perfect tbh so thanks for that. :tink:

Anyways Disney makes me happy and I'll keep going as long as that keeps being true, even when I know some things there are expensive and overpriced. Like churros. I love them tho.
 
Cars land is amazing, especially at night/dusk. The little kid who grew up on the original trilogy in me almost cried when I walked around the corner and saw that full size Falcon in Galaxys Edge. ROTR is an amazing ride, and there are lots of cool little Easter eggs throughout galaxys edge but yeah, it could use some more work.

It’s the I haven’t been to DLR/WDW in 5,10 or in a few cases…15 years and don’t plan to ever again crowd….then why come here to pour the negativity when you obviously have no interest in returning unless they turn back the clock 15 years (which ain’t happening). I mean, I used to love the niners. Then they tore down candlestick and moved to Santa Clara and gave the reins of the team to a spoiled rich kid. I enjoyed watching them lose this year as the curse of Santa Clara continues. But I don’t go into the niners discussions and wax nostalgic and sh*t all over them (I only do that if people ask me about them! 😝), I just walked away. But I guess I know the answer…..it’s the internet
Jed York would never be able to make it through a 30-minute Pirates standby line without LL.
 
To me the main reason why Disneyland debuted the Genie+/Lightning Lane system was simply because people who go to Disneyland don't want to wait in long lines to ride popular attractions especially if you are a family with tired crying infants and impatient toddlers who cannot wait in long lines for so long to ride certain rides. But when Fastpass was replaced in Disneyland by the Genie+ system and Lightning Lane system many people thought that this was supposed to be a great new invention of the Disney minds. But when people read about what a pain Genie+ and Lightning Lane worked many people were like me and said "Forget it Our family will have no desire to visit Disneyland due to this invention". And if you are planning a Disneyland trip today you can see why they add new stuff such as Magic Keys and paying to use the Genie+ system for rides that might not be in operation at the time you get there. So in my eyes Frommer's has this article correct. And what I think Disneyland should do is retire Genie+ and offer a ticket wristband system and bring back the free Fastpass system. Because I truly think Genie+/Lightning Lane has ruined Disneyland today and has taken the fun out of the trips
 
Right!? I specifically love that phrase and these ones, they sum it up pretty good.




The condescending attitude about ppl who visit the parks being ignorant fools that just keep throwing money at Disney because apparently we can't understand how awesome it was in 1999 (never mind the fact that I have engaged siblings who hadn't been born yet in 1999). Or how we so dumb we only spend our money "feeding the mouse" instead of going out into the real world. Awesome attitude. The agenda comment above really made the whole thing perfect tbh so thanks for that. :tink:

Anyways Disney makes me happy and I'll keep going as long as that keeps being true, even when I know some things there are expensive and overpriced. Like churros. I love them tho.

That's how I feel too. I've been going to WDW since 1987 and Disneyland since 2004. While I don't love everything that has changed over the years...we will keep going until we decide we're sick of it, I think. I do wish they would get rid of individual lightning lanes though. And some aspects of Genie+ need to be tweaked. Obviously there are things I'm not a fan of but I don't let it ruin my day. As the parks evolve and change, we just try to deal with those changes as best we can. (And if others would rather not...that's perfectly fine too.) It's not realistic to expect things to stay the same, decade after decade.
 
To me the main reason why Disneyland debuted the Genie+/Lightning Lane system was simply because people who go to Disneyland don't want to wait in long lines to ride popular attractions especially if you are a family with tired crying infants and impatient toddlers who cannot wait in long lines for so long to ride certain rides. But when Fastpass was replaced in Disneyland by the Genie+ system and Lightning Lane system many people thought that this was supposed to be a great new invention of the Disney minds. But when people read about what a pain Genie+ and Lightning Lane worked many people were like me and said "Forget it Our family will have no desire to visit Disneyland due to this invention". And if you are planning a Disneyland trip today you can see why they add new stuff such as Magic Keys and paying to use the Genie+ system for rides that might not be in operation at the time you get there. So in my eyes Frommer's has this article correct. And what I think Disneyland should do is retire Genie+ and offer a ticket wristband system and bring back the free Fastpass system. Because I truly think Genie+/Lightning Lane has ruined Disneyland today and has taken the fun out of the trips
You haven’t been (by your own admission) to the parks in 15+ years.

We take multiple trips a year to DLR. We love Genie+. It gives our family more time to spend together doing rides and other things rather than waiting in line for 45+ mins.
 
Thankfully we get to go to the parks enough that we keep and "enforce" a "it will be here next time" mentality for us and our kids that it's rare that G+ totally ruins a day. Plus we have had enough magical experiences in the long lines with the kids meeting new "friends" from all over the world that it makes it worth it. I'm just as happy sitting in a corner tucked away enjoying a snack as I am on most any ride. Vibes > Rides.....

On those moments when G+ does really start to make me upset... I relax and consider that Disney needs to make some money and the parks seem to be where they make it. Would I want my Magic Key or WDW tickets to cost me another 700 to 1000 bucks a year per person to get rid of it? I then look at those people using the program as giving me a small discount on my Magic Key renewal and it makes my churro more enjoyable.
 
And what I think Disneyland should do is retire Genie+ and offer a ticket wristband system and bring back the free Fastpass system. Because I truly think Genie+/Lightning Lane has ruined Disneyland today and has taken the fun out of the trips
I disagree! Due to the steady increase in world population, Genie+ and iLL are the only economical options left to ensure that we have a fun trip. FastPass was good for its time because there was nothing before that. Anything could be considered revolutionary when compared to nothingness.

Why would I want a wristband when I can have a Magic Band? Let's not bring back 1999! I know people speak with fondness of paper FastPasses. But in reality, those booths would not have existed if our Nokia phones had the technology of today.
 
I disagree! Due to the steady increase in world population, Genie+ and iLL are the only economical options left to ensure that we have a fun trip. FastPass was good for its time because there was nothing before that. Anything could be considered revolutionary when compared to nothingness.

Why would I want a wristband when I can have a Magic Band? Let's not bring back 1999! I know people speak with fondness of paper FastPasses. But in reality, those booths would not have existed if our Nokia phones had the technology of today.
The person you're quoting has not been to a Disney park since 2004, so 20 years ago. And yes, that did hurt my soul to type that 2004 was two decades ago.
 
Okay...so I'm getting the vibe that you don't like "woke" Disney. Am I way off base there? Or maybe you just aren't a fan of the female-led movies/shows? I don't know...I guess I haven't seen anything that was solely made with some "agenda" in mind. But, I also haven't seen a lot of the recent stuff so maybe I just missed it.
I never used the term woke at all, and I'll just say in my family I have one child that is gay and one that is trans, so don't assume where I stand on woke stuff. My issue, as I said, is good story telling. For example I loved the MCU Black Widow, even the last installment - great female lead, good characters and script, I'd love to see more. Capt Marvel, IMHO suffered from an average, however I found Brie Larson to be a poor choice to bring that role to life. Then Disney did it's thing and we got the hot mess that was The Marvels. For those that don't know, Captain Marvel was not always a male character, the character changes through the comics, Carol Danvers was the 7th Captain Marvel, so again its not that the character was a woman, its the poor script, poor directing and poor actors. I belive that Disney can and should be doing better.
 
Okay...so I'm getting the vibe that you don't like "woke" Disney. Am I way off base there? Or maybe you just aren't a fan of the female-led movies/shows? I don't know...I guess I haven't seen anything that was solely made with some "agenda" in mind. But, I also haven't seen a lot of the recent stuff so maybe I just missed it.

Also, you make it seem like people either take Disney vacations OR they take non-Disney vacations. But it's not an either/or situation. Many of us take Disney trips and also non-Disney trips too.

Just curious on the "Female-led movies and shows" comment.

I mean hasn't Disney always had a huge amount of female-led shows in it's history? I guess that comment confuses me.
 
The person you're quoting has not been to a Disney park since 2004, so 20 years ago. And yes, that did hurt my soul to type that 2004 was two decades ago.
Yeah. Someone else already said that.

I’m not sure how the recency of a person’s visit qualifies or disqualifies one from having an opinion.
 

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