School districts punishing parents for taking kids out for Disney!

[DawnM]

I find teacher salaries interesting when you compare salaries.

In CA I was making $64,500 as my base. That was with 2 Masters' degrees and 15 years of experience.

Here in NC, if I worked in the Charlotte school district I could make $49,000 and added $$ if I work in an inner-city school or a hard to place field.

Now, that does not include any added work (intersession or summer school). I made more in CA when I did those.

Now, noone has even mentioned benefits....those are vastly different in CA than in NC! I think it is mostly because there are no unions in NC and boy do I get reamed for even mentioning unions around here!

Dawn

You didn't offend me, but I wouldn't go back. My great grandfather worked fourteen hour days six days a week in a stockyard. Many of his coworkers lost hands (he only had three fingers). His first wife died in a stockyard accident. His wife (my great grandmother) also worked in the stockyard. My grandmother was home alone from the time she was four years old. Watching her two younger sisters. The half blind neighborlady who spoke a different language than they did was home if there were problems.

Yes they worked - and I wouldn't wish their life on anyone.

My mother in law works integrating Somali women into the community. Their sons and husbands drive cab, work as security guards - most hold two jobs and work six days a week. They are less likely to lose fingers - but they work too. The women clean office buildings or work retail. These are hard working, very nice and very generous people who fled a war and famine - some who do not speak English well enough to teach it to their children. They are also proud to be "Americans" - and grateful for the opportunity to recreate lives here.

Next time - smaller brush.

 

[Tiger926]

Very interesting to see the state of education in the U.S. I am a Canadian teacher (province of Ontario). The teachers in my city are some of the highest paid in the province - most of us have a minimum of 5 years university (many of us have multiple degrees - 7 or 8 years of university), plus continual teacher education courses that cost $900.00 per course. I work extremely hard (work at night, on weekends, in summer) as do many of my colleagues. I teach at an at risk highschool and we only have 2 P.A. days in my city per year - that's it. We do NOT have snow days, ever!! Buses are cancelled as we have some very treacherous county roads, all teachers, staff and board personnel are expected at work and it is up to parents whether to send their kids to school on bad weather days and believe me, we have some seriously dangerous weather around here.

It is illegal in my province to tie marking, teacher performance or daily attendance to funding. We have 2 reporting periods during the year, where we have to send in numbers that the Ministry of Education uses in helping them decide on next year's funding - this reporting includes: full/part time students, ESL students, special education students, etc. as well as a ton of other factors that go into determining the funding formula. By the way, we also have standardized tests as well - they mean nothing to us educators as we know that teachers and parents teach to the test. Passing a test does not mean that one is competent in that area. eg. I just thread through this entire thread, of which I am assuming all or most of the posters are highschool graduates, yet I see a ridiculously high amount of grammer and spelling errors on here. Obviously testing didn't do some of you any good in the structural area of writing, yet you may be very proficient in other areas. Would it be fair of me to make a judgment about your intelligence based on these posts? Nope! Same with standardized tests scores - they should not be used to pit teachers, schools and social classes against one another for funding and enrollment purposes, nor should they be used to wholly determine people's cognitive abilities as there are many factors at play here (eg. test environment, amount of preparation, individual student levels, etc.)

As a teacher, I am so tired of reading all of the teacher bashing that goes on here on the DISboards. Contrary to what many of you think, teaching is an extremely hard job - it is rewarding, but very challenging. Especially when dealing with parent mentalities such as I read about on the DIS - you complain that there is a teacher P.A. day in which teachers in my province are at school (don't show up, docked a day's pay), or snow day for safety reasons, yet you take your kids out of school for a week to go on vacation? Totally hypocritical - if student absence is important to you, then ALL student absences should be important.

Very interesting discussion, but the biggest problem of all of this is that school funding and teacher performance is tied to attendance - totally ridiculous. The fact of the matter is, the parents are in charge in my province for both monetary reasons and political reasons (they elect the trustees and education representatives who determine the policies - as well, parents determine whether kids are failed or not).

Tiger

 

[ameraumi]

The other thing to think about is that the schools are technically not losing money for the days missed. It should read they only receive funding for when the child is present. Some will say "Lose", but schools also do not receive funding when a child is home sick. If you are going to send a "bill" home for missed days, it should be to everyone missing, not just those on vacation.

So I find it wrong to "charge" parents who have to take a family vacation during the school year. Some families have no choice! I know if I was still working at the bank, I would have no choice but to take my vacation during the school year. It was based on a Senority system, the person with the highest senority had first dibs on vacation time (and some had 5-6 weeks of vacation!).

 

[crisi]

The other thing to think about is that the schools are technically not losing money for the days missed. It should read they only receive funding for when the child is present. Some will say "Lose", but schools also do not receive funding when a child is home sick. If you are going to send a "bill" home for missed days, it should be to everyone missing, not just those on vacation.

So I find it wrong to "charge" parents who have to take a family vacation during the school year. Some families have no choice! I know if I was still working at the bank, I would have no choice but to take my vacation during the school year. It was based on a Senority system, the person with the highest senority had first dibs on vacation time (and some had 5-6 weeks of vacation!).

Depends on the state you are in. Some states will pay schools for excused absenses, but not unexcused absenses.

And you do have a choice. Growing up we went on ONE vacation. Vacations are not a right, they aren't a need. We pull our kids as well, but it is a choice to do so. On the other hand, no one choses to run a 101 degree fever or get chicken pox.

I'd like to point out that the school district in the article isn't forcing parents to pay, they are suggesting they reimburse the school for lost dollars.

 

[Starr W.]

In Ohio, the "official" count days are in October and Feb. Unfortunately the Feb "count" week was when we had bad weather and missed school for 2 days. Most districts were lobbying Columbus to average the 3 days or pick another week.

Our district has started the week before Labor Day for about 28 yrs(when I was in school). One of those once a century storms, ended up cancelling spring break to help make up days and added on in June. Problem was Ohio required the school year to be done by a certain date and it was rather close. The district moved the start of school up one week to give them a cushion in case they needed to make up 5+ days again.

Well, so this has been going on longer than most residents have lived here, but according to some of the school's secretaries we have kids that regularly miss the first 4 days of school because "their parents believe school shouldn't start till after Labor Day." These are the types that yell at board meetings and if the super. said something was white, they would say it was black.

 

[Georgia]

not trying to be a jerk about it, but they do work 9 months out of the year vs other folks who work 12 months out of the year such as above poster doing social work for 12 months out of the year getting paid less....I dont feel sorry for teachers claiming XXX amount of salary they need to factor in 9 months out of the year.

Let me help you not be a "jerk" in the future...my 3 free summer months over the last 13 years is down to 9 (UNPAID!) weeks. Two of those I'm spending at UNPAID seminars in order to improve the way I teach. Generally, teachers don't ask you to feel sorry for them, we want fair compensation for the time we work. In addition, I will spend about an hour a day all summer long going over all my old lesson plans/materials assessing what worked and didn't work...did I mention that time will be UNPAID. In terms of benefits, they have gotten increasing worse since I started teaching (a problem in most all jobs!).

Also, if teachers take on extra service positions like dept. chair, coaching etc...the pay for these positions is a joke. I coached middle school cheerleading one year. I made $585 dollars. The county required us to track our hours on this position (not sure why?). At 250 hours, I stopped counting! That equals 2.34 an hour. I have a BA, a Masters and 21 hours over my masters.



I agree that teaching and coaching are not about the money, but a fair wage is important...where else can you employ a Masters degree professional for 2.34 an hour!

 

[Tiger926]

Georgia - Excellent post!

I live in a factory town where most factory workers make more than: teachers (and as I said, we get paid well), social workers, police officers, nurses, etc. Need I continue? My neighbour has off more weeks per year than I do, has a grade 12 diploma and makes more than I do. The potential for overtime puts him at well over $100,000.00 per year - that is as much as our superintendents and a little bit less than our Director whom all have at least a minimum of a master's degree (some with PhD) and endless hours of professional teaching qualifications courses as well.

People who use salary as an argument to put us teachers down really show their ignorance. Most teachers work so many extra hours that we don't get paid for, we also feed your kids, clothe your kids and provide them with school supplies out of our own pockets! I do anyway as I teach at an at-risk school - my staff and I are always paying for this stuff out of our own pockets as we use our very small school budget to keep our very specialized, successful program going each year.

No factory worker I know (and I know lots) does anything out of their pockets, whatsoever - if they work overtime, they are paid for it. Most of us teachers don't think twice about doing what "our kids" need, but many times the extras (whether it be time, energy or finances) are hard on our families.

Just something for people to think about - wouldn't want anyone to continue to be a 'jerk' if I can help it, as I would have missed a great teachable moment!

Tiger

 

[mom2alix]

I guess I don't think the OP is that big of a deal. They aren't forcing anyone to pay. It's seems a lot more realistic than the school districts where people were getting letters threatening to take them to truancy court for taking their kids on vacation for a week. That was ridiculous!

 

[Iott Family]

Well, so far we do not have to pay $$$ for missed school days but our corporation does enforce the 50% rule. Meaning every day our children have an unexcused absence, an absence not excused by a doctors note, our children's grades are docked 50% for each day they are absent. So out of 100% our child will only earn 50% on that/those day(s) class work, quiz, test, homework, etc.
THAT p*sses me off. Their tardy rule is just as screwey. If your kid is late to school due to an early morning appt. they are still considered tardy even with a doctors note. Its just an excused tardy.
And yes, I still take my children out of school for WDW vacations, doctor appt's, etc.

My 2cents!

 

[rhiannonwales]

Well, so far we do not have to pay $$$ for missed school days but our corporation does enforce the 50% rule. Meaning every day our children have an unexcused absence, an absence not excused by a doctors note, our children's grades are docked 50% for each day they are absent. So out of 100% our child will only earn 50% on that/those day(s) class work, quiz, test, homework, etc.
THAT p*sses me off. Their tardy rule is just as screwey. If your kid is late to school due to an early morning appt. they are still considered tardy even with a doctors note. Its just an excused tardy.
And yes, I still take my children out of school for WDW vacations, doctor appt's, etc.

My 2cents!

OMG! How is that legal????

 

[dfarner]

Well, so far we do not have to pay $$$ for missed school days but our corporation does enforce the 50% rule. Meaning every day our children have an unexcused absence, an absence not excused by a doctors note, our children's grades are docked 50% for each day they are absent. So out of 100% our child will only earn 50% on that/those day(s) class work, quiz, test, homework, etc.
My 2cents!

WHAT?

My husband grew up in Lafayette, Indiana and I've never heard of anything like that in that area. How long has that been in effect?

 

[leighe]

So out of 100% our child will only earn 50% on that/those day(s) class work, quiz, test, homework, etc.
THAT p*sses me off.
My 2cents!

How does that policy bother you if the absence is unexcused? There have to be some penalties for an unexcused absence or there would be no point in excused/unexcused.


I know that most parents (especially here on the Dis) are very responsible and supportive/encouraging of their children's education/behavior at school/etc. However, I think people would be surprised by the number of parents who are not. The rules are not there to give you (no one in specific) a hard time about taking your kids out of school - they are there becacuse there really are parents out there who on one hand want to say "My kid can't read. What are you going to do about it?" and on the other hand say, "I'm not going to send my kid to school if I'm too tired to put them on the bus in the morning." We have so many kids at my school that are "3-4 day a weekers" meaning that they will literally show up three of four days out of five EVERY SINGLE WEEK. That's why schools are getting so strict with attendance. We (schools/teachers) are forced by law to be responsible for kids whose parents refuse to be. And then those parents turn around and say, "Don't tell me how to raise my kids."

 

[rhiannonwales]

Here's why it makes me mad:
AN unexcused absence is any day that does not have a Dr.'s note.Now i dont know about you, but sometimes my kids are too sick to go to school but not sick enough to go to the Dr. So by that logic they are now unexcused.

I know you are a teacher so your perspective is a little biased.But makeing a child fail and potentially repeat a grade because they have a high absence rate is only making school cost more for residents in the long run. That helps no one.

 

[leighe]

Here's why it makes me mad:
AN unexcused absence is any day that does not have a Dr.'s note.Now i dont know about you, but sometimes my kids are too sick to go to school but not sick enough to go to the Dr. So by that logic they are now unexcused.
QUOTE]

I agree that that policy is way too strict. In our district a kid can miss up to 7 days excused with just a parent note or phone call and after that they require a dr's note.

 

[treboats]

Originally Posted by dfarner
Very well said Leighe. I would be anxious to see how many of the public school parents that have posted on this thread have actually been to a school board meeting. Several posters mentioned snow days-this is for the safety of all students in your district, whether they ride a bus, walk, or a transported by parents. I live within walking distance of my daughter's school and we could have gotten her to school every day thus far. However, in other areas of our district children are subject to longer commutes and unsafe road conditions. Some of you that have posted sound like the school districts are punishing you by keeping your kids out of school on days they deem unsafe.

Good point....how many of these parents who complain about the schools being closed due to weather conditions would like to take on the responsibility for hundreds of students' safety? Imagine that school NOT being closed due to the ONE INCH of snow and a bus wrecking and killing or injuring children! Just imagine that! Tough job, IMO!

I complained and I have been to school board meetings, I have done the door to door thing to get a needed tax levy passed, I have donated my time, supplies and money. I save the school money by taking a vacation day when my sons class goes on a field trip because he is special needs they would have to get a bus just for him, pay an aide's way on the trip and get a substitue aide for his classroom. So yes I think this gives me the right to complain.

When they forcasted snow for late in the day so they called of school and we got nothing not one flake, that is needless how about calling it when we actually get snow. A grade day what the heck is that I thought it was for the teachers to get ready for parent teacher conferences but no it's just a day off.

I have 5 friends who teach in our district and one family member and believe me they are all very well paid. One makes $55,000 and he leaves 15 minutes after the kids do and gets there 15 minutes before school starts. So if you stretch it out to 8 hours a day and there is no way he works 8 hours a day he makes $38.19 an hour if he works 180 days I believe our district is in school 174 days so that is adding on 6 extra days and giving an hour a day for planning and stuff. He doesn't bring work home with him at night so he gets everything done at school. They all also see how ridiculous some of these days off are but they aren't going to complain because they are the ones that benefit.

It may not be daycare but when I budget so much for expenses and am hit with an extra day of daycare or taking the day off without pay I think it gives me the right to complain if my school thought I should pay them when I take my child on vacation. Especially when our district has so many "Superintendent's"... straight from the district website,

Superintendent
Associate Superintendent, Special Services
Assistant Superintendent, Elementary Education
Assistant Superintendent, Secondary Education
Assistant Superintendent, School Services
Assistant Superintendent, Finance
Assistant Superintendent, Curriculum & Instruction
Assistant Superintendent for Technology
Director of Safety & Security

All of these people make over $100,000 that is $900,000-$1,000,000 just in these 9 positions. Do we not see any waste here and see why I think it would be ridiculous for them to expect me to pay them to take my child on vacation.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Let me help you not be a "jerk" in the future...my 3 free summer months over the last 13 years is down to 9 (UNPAID!) weeks. Two of those I'm spending at UNPAID seminars in order to improve the way I teach. Generally, teachers don't ask you to feel sorry for them, we want fair compensation for the time we work. In addition, I will spend about an hour a day all summer long going over all my old lesson plans/materials assessing what worked and didn't work...did I mention that time will be UNPAID. In terms of benefits, they have gotten increasing worse since I started teaching (a problem in most all jobs!).

Also, if teachers take on extra service positions like dept. chair, coaching etc...the pay for these positions is a joke. I coached middle school cheerleading one year. I made $585 dollars. The county required us to track our hours on this position (not sure why?). At 250 hours, I stopped counting! That equals 2.34 an hour. I have a BA, a Masters and 21 hours over my masters.



I agree that teaching and coaching are not about the money, but a fair wage is important...where else can you employ a Masters degree professional for 2.34 an hour!

Lets see... Social Workers/Case-managers with a master's degree. A real one, not an M.Ed., working for the same county that pays novice, unskilled teachers 1/3 more. No paid training...it isn't in the budget... Work year round, two weeks paid vacation. No guaranteed holidays, no paperwork days, no paid overtime, plus on-call beeper duty (also unpaid.) No special benefits, no retirement plan. If teachers didn't act like virgin sacrifices, I think people would feel more sympathetic for a job that isn't always easy. They want to be treated like professionals, but choose to belong to trade unions, and will STRIKE. They teach fads rather than facts. And they dawdle in psychology, where they hav no business.

As far as coaching, well, my husband isn't paid to coach basketball. It is a volunteer position for most of the population. You are lucky to be compensated at all, if you volunteered for this. If they made, you coach cheerleaders, then I see your point.

And tiger...no one feeds and clothes my children. And the teachers here, give no less than those donating to Community Action, GoodWilll, Coats for Kids, CSB, and the Women's Shelter. There are all kinds of good charitable people out there, who do what is right. Not just teachers.

Treboats, a list very similar to our very small community's.

 

[dis-happy]

I find teacher salaries interesting when you compare salaries.

In CA I was making $64,500 as my base. That was with 2 Masters' degrees and 15 years of experience.

Here in NC, if I worked in the Charlotte school district I could make $49,000 and added $$ if I work in an inner-city school or a hard to place field.

Now, that does not include any added work (intersession or summer school). I made more in CA when I did those.

Now, noone has even mentioned benefits....those are vastly different in CA than in NC! I think it is mostly because there are no unions in NC and boy do I get reamed for even mentioning unions around here!
Dawn

I've live in CA and NC. What about the cost difference of living in CA vs. NC? Houses here (Charlotte) cost way, way, way less than CA. If you look at the very bottom of the market, you can get a very basic older 3 b/r house in a neighhborhood for $100k, compared to $300k in CA if you are lucky (and the neighborhood will be scarier). $180-200k will get you a very livable house in a very livable neighborhood.

Move on to electricity costs, Duke power is reasonable---they were the ones selling power to CA during the last crisis and the CA power companies were jacking up the price even more to the consumer.

Gasoline: my friend in CA is always lamenting her prices vs. mine when we talk on the phone, again we pay about $.25 less per gallon here.

Driver's Ed: free here, you have to pay in CA.

The difference in salary is more than made up for by the cost of living. Just asked my friend who moved back to CA after living in Charlotte. Here she had the choice to be a SAHM. now she has to work full time.

 

[Starr W.]

How does that policy bother you if the absence is unexcused? There have to be some penalties for an unexcused absence or there would be no point in excused/unexcused.


I know that most parents (especially here on the Dis) are very responsible and supportive/encouraging of their children's education/behavior at school/etc. However, I think people would be surprised by the number of parents who are not. The rules are not there to give you (no one in specific) a hard time about taking your kids out of school - they are there becacuse there really are parents out there who on one hand want to say "My kid can't read. What are you going to do about it?" and on the other hand say, "I'm not going to send my kid to school if I'm too tired to put them on the bus in the morning." We have so many kids at my school that are "3-4 day a weekers" meaning that they will literally show up three of four days out of five EVERY SINGLE WEEK. That's why schools are getting so strict with attendance. We (schools/teachers) are forced by law to be responsible for kids whose parents refuse to be. And then those parents turn around and say, "Don't tell me how to raise my kids."

You are right about the number of parents that are not supportive, I was rather shocked to see this in our schools. 3rd grade if you turned in what little homework(Mon & Wed spelling, Tues & Thurs math) they had over the quarter you got to see the movie. Now if you were sick, you could turn it in when you got back and the teachers gave 3 "oops I forgot" days, 1/3 of the class didn't get to see the movie.

Now in 4th grade this year, co-teaching, both send home a joint letter about assignments not being turned in on time! I know one mother thinks it's too much, so she writes on sheets. "He's done enough". It bugs me as my son is an Aspie and it takes him longer(depending 45 minutes on a heavy night,plus 15 minutes of reading) but he does all his work(he hates not to follow the rules and possibly have his teachers mad at him or send notes home.)

He was really worried that about a note that came home Friday. It was 3 dollars as they overcharged everyone in the Jr. Great Book program for the book. Much relief on his part.

 

[perdidochas]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/03/08/pay.for.play.ap/index.html

What punishment? Basically, it was voluntary, as there is no legal basis for it. Please be more specific in thread titles. A more accurate one would be "School districts asking for money from parents taking kids out for Disney." I didn't see one word about punishment in that article.

 

[perdidochas]

Im not sure how I feel about that. Our public schools in Louisiana are in horrible shape and the teachers are about the lowest paid in the country.
Im ok with giving the schools extra money, but I didnt realize they lose money when kids are absent.

It varies state by state. In FL, for instance, there are one or two time periods during the year when daily attendance is measured for purposes of funding. Only absences during those time periods (which are a week or two weeks long) count towards it.