Screamscape reports...Forbidden Mountain!?!?!

[norestneeded]

Screamscape has just reported the following Animal Kingdom rumor. I keep myself pretty abreast of the rumor wires but this one is news to me. Any of our moles know anything more?

"2004 / 2005 - Forbidden Mountain - (6/26/02) While this may be another big nail in Beastly Kingdom’s coffin, Screamscape has just heard a major rumor that may form into a press release in the near future. We don’t know much at this point, but it seems that this will be the first “Mountain” attraction outside of a Magic Kingdom park. To be more specific, it sounds like this ride will be plopped down somewhere in the Asia area of the park and sounds as if it will be a heavily themed Mine Train coaster ride in and out of a giant mountain. We were also told that it sounds as if this ride may even have two individual but unique track layouts interwoven with each other, much like the famous Matterhorn at Disneyland. If anyone knows more, please let us know!"

 

[April76]

I've never seen the Indiana Jones attraction, but it's the first thing I thought of from this description... wasn't "Temple of Doom" in an Asia type setting? I would love to see that type of attraction in any of the WDW parks!

 

[Lesley]

Taking this slightly OT....but does anyone else feel that Beastly Kingdom is essential to the AK having a cohesive and appealing theme? If this really is the nail in the coffin.....I think they've shot themselves in the foot. AK doesn't get great attendance because its too much like a zoo...yet they are refusing to add the elements that will further define it as something else. The original idea was a park dedicated to "the animals that are, were and will never be" (bad paraphrase,sorry)

As far as the whole Nahtazu campaign....I find it incredibly half assed (sorry to be crude). In defining the park by what its not (though, it is, isn't it?) they've made the whole premise that much weaker.

AK could be awesome...and in some ways it already is.....but they seem to keep throwing good money after bad. Is this only obvious to me?

BTW...AK is my favorite park in many respects....so I'm particularly ticked off at the mismanagement of it!

Oh, and the rumor does sound pretty cool....though as I said...I think its the totally wrong direction!

 

[Another Voice]

Hmmmm……

This sounds very, very, very much like the original coaster planned for the Dinosaur section of Animal Kingdom. It was supposed to be an opening day attraction, then was pushed back in the initial wave of the park’s budget cuts, and then finally replaced by the spreadsheet-friendly Dino-Rama. Just replace the original dinosaur digging site with the mine and you have the “new” rumor.

Of course at WDI projects never die (the graveyard sits at the corporate offices), so someone my be trying to a quick rethemeing and rebudgeting of the attraction for another go at getting approval to build something, anything at all.

Then there all the other rumors about a certain other theme park that actually invests money in attractions and themeing – some say they spend money like sea water. They are supposed to be looking for a second Indiana Jones themed attraction to compliment the one they already have. Hmmm – a roller coaster through a mine with Indiana Jones….why does that sound so familiar?

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Another Voice
Then there all the other rumors about a certain other theme park that actually invests money in attractions and themeing – some say they spend money like sea water. They are supposed to be looking for a second Indiana Jones themed attraction to compliment the one they already have. Hmmm – a roller coaster through a mine with Indiana Jones….why does that sound so familiar?

So Screamscape says it's going to be plopped down somewhere in Asia. Could this ride actually be going to the real Asia, not the Asia at AK?

 

[d-r]

AV - you are about to go to 1,000.

And, yeah, I agree with you - when I read this, it sounded like a re-themed excavater, which always sounded to me like a re-themed indiana jones coaster from Paris. I was still sort of hoping that maybe, somehow, someday a roller coaster would show up at dinoland, because I always thought the idea was for a "grown up" and "kiddie" version, so I sort of secretly hoped that primevil whirl was the kiddie one with a big one to follow.

I wonder if this is a back-up or alternative plan to Beastly Kingdom - maybe if reign of fire isn't a big box office, why should they build an e-ticket for it? So how to re-theme this coaster, without the dragon? Well, without the dragon, you wouldn't need beastly kingdom anymore....why not just put it one of the other lands.

If this uses the same RIDE that was supposed to be in fire mountain without the dragon (and not an older coaster like paris indiana jones, even if it is backwards) I still think it would be pretty cool, and instead of beastly kingdom they could build another continent - that wouldn't bother me too much. I think that AK's success hinges on more and better attractions, and not neccessarily only on beastly kingdom - if they do some well-themed really good attractions I wouldn't miss it. I mean really, everything besides fire mt. sounds pretty lame anyway (a unicorn maze?) and I've said for a while that Beastly Kingdom has already been build, it is just at ioa. So why bother? If you must have a mythical creature, put back in the allusion to a dragon or a unicorn on the boat ride over from AKL -

- you know, honestly, I'd rather have the same quality of a coaster as fire MT. in Asia, a new S. America or Australia with new animals and an e-ticket (even a soarin clone, or put forbidden MT. here instead of Asia for that matter), and a boat from AKL with a view of a dragon or unicorn than Beastly Kingdom with fire Mt. and the unicorn maze.

DR

 

[All Aboard]

A mine train ride in and out of a mountain. All seems somewhat familiar.Click Here

 

[raidermatt]

gcurling- That was my first thought as well. But if its a Temple of Doom kind of thing, it could be very different. But if AV's right, we might have to dust off the old passport to actually ride it (if it even ends up being built at all).

Not to change the subject, (never happens around here), but doesn't the Cave of Wonders seem like a natural for a coaster/thrill ride of some type? (Maybe not for AK...).

It could even be a Soarin' type of ride, where the magic carpet has picked us up from above...

 

[rocketman23]

I think this would not be a good move for Disney. Animal Kingdom needs a thrilling new land, Beastly Kingdom, then a rehash of Thunder Mountain. You see dragons and unicorns all over the park for petessake! It's about time they built Beastly Kingdom, ended the bad reputation of AK, and not be afraid to take on IOA's Lost Continent! Go for it Disney...

 

[tuck]

I think this may be the next thing after BK. ASia was rumored to get a new attaction after BK a while back.

Even if this Mt. is built... Screamscape had one thing wrong..IT won't be the first Mt. attaction outside a magic Kingdom/disneyland

1. Grizzly River - Cali Adv.
2. Journey to the center of the Earth - Disney sea

 

[Bob O]

A mine train ride doesnt sound like a e-ticket attraction IMHO.
They do need to build BK!!!! The park was advertised from the beginning concepts of having as part of the park a land for mythical animals, it would be sad if the only myth was the building of BK in the first place. And who will build the ride mechanism for this new attraction??

 

[Peter Pirate]

I no longer think BK is needed at AK (apparantely a good thing if Scoop's scoop is correct - and I know that it is).

I think AK needs another 'E' ticket to be sure, but I personally would rather see them develop and cultivate the current demographic that seems to really like the AK philosophy as given us (no it wasn't a large as they'd hoped, but then they cut back on the initial development also). I think the AK fan base is growing and more of the same type of entertainment would be preferable to a 'weenie' for the excitement crowd (a 'weenie' that would only serve to draw the excitement seekers to that one attraction anyway - see TT at Epcot).

I would love to see Austrailia become a reality. The Soarin' clone would be great and I'd like to see one more top-notch Australian animal enconter ride/attraction...Maybe they can get that croc hunter guy to risk his life six times a day or smething!

 

[Bstanley]

Well Scoop,

From a picture that I snatched from the web, it would appear that the distance from the present bus 'depot' at the AKL to a small lake that borders AK is only 300 yards or so. But that lake doesn't approach the front entrance.

The lake wraps around an area in the picture that has been cleared and if I remember my bus ride from AKL to AK it is a 'backstage area'. I suppose they could relocate whatever is there today, or even dig a canal nearer to the front entrance...

Personally I still wish that the Steam Train that goes to Rafiki's Plant Watch (nee' Conservation Station) went to AKL also.

 

[daannzzz]

A mine train through a mountain could easily be an E-ticket ride depending on what's in the mountain!!! This sure wouldn't be my first choice to add to AK. Wouldn't be my second, third or fourth choice either, though I am sure it would be fun. I really would like to se BK built as long as it wasn't just a dragon coaster. if they decide not to do BK I will still be happy if the continue to creat exaotic locals AND put in some real E-ticket attractions not just rides.

 

[Another Voice]

“…really like the AK philosophy as given us…”

“As given us”?

Hmmm…… I just had a flash about some a scene from an old C.B. DeMile Biblical Epic where this giant tree appears in the wilderness and a booming voice from the clouds tells a group of shepards to “rejoice for a Great Gift has been given unto thee”.

Disney built AK as a business, not a private hang-out for the people who “get the concept”. And while it’s good that some people can still lower, er, I mean change their expectations, I’d really like to hear how ‘Primeval Whirl’ is not just a spreadsheet friendly weenie for the excitement crowd.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hmmmmm AV..... a little literal this am aren't we?

As for AK and expectations, all I have to say is.....

.......'you spin me right round, baby right round, like a record, baby right round round round'

Do we really want to go round in circles on this one again so soon ?

 

[Lesley]

If AK isn't getting Beastly Kingdom....then what is the theme of the park? It seems to be turning into World Showcase plus animals.....oh, but then again we have this Dinoland (with a tacky carnival?) and Camp Minnie-Mickey....which don't fit. The element AK needs to keep its original theme cohesive is BK. That does't necessarily mean a dragon coaster and unicorn maze...it could be a Pegasus coaster/dark ride through Mt. Olympus...or whatever. I'm not the imagineer.

There is so much that could be done with the orginal concept for the park....but they seem to just want to water it down and weaken it. Big rides (or not so big rides) with no cohesive story do not make a Disney park......that makes a Six Flags...or maybe Busch Gardens?

Camp Minnie Mickey could be better fleshed out as a tribute to animated animals.....how about a Bambi dark ride along the lines of Pooh or Peter Pan? Dinoland seems pretty much finished (unless they come to their senses and bulldoze that awful carnival) and the continent areas give us animals as they are now as well as some nice attractions....the missing link to pull it all together is BK.

AK could be as good as TDS, if they were willing to put a real effort into developing what they started with. But it seems they've written that idea off as a failure before ever finishing it. Kind of like building half a grocery store....no bakery, dairy or meat departments...with the promise of bringing those in later...and then declaring the whole concept of a grocery store a failure because people stop visiting it. The failure isn't in the concept, but in the fact that it wasn't completed. But no, lets just bring in more frozen foods....yeah, that'll do it.

 

[Another Voice]

The big question to be resolved is a fundamental issue with the place’s theme: is Animal Kingdom supposed to be ABOUT animals, or is Animal Kingdom an amusement park THEMED around animals.

I have a feeling most people go there expecting to see and learn about animals, something like a zoo or an aquarium. Animal Kingdom should be educational and get its “magic” from real animal in real settings.

Other people go there wanting a theme park; the animals are there just like dressing up a roller coaster like an old western mine train “themes” it Frontierland. The place should be fun just like any other theme park and the rides are the draw.

As it stands now, the place tries to do both and fails. One concept or the other has to be dominate (the other can still exist) to give the place a clear direction and give the guests a clear message. At the moment, you have the safari ride which seems to be educational, but says really nothing new (poaching is bad – not exactly a news flash) and wastes time with a phony storyline about a lost elephant. Surely there are still people at Disney that know how to make a real elephant just as exciting as a fiberglass replica (one hopes).

Answering that question would make the choice between Beastly Kingdom type attractions and Australia type attractions more than just a budget call.

P.S. – Mr. Pirate, please be sure to stop by the Monterey Bay Aquarium on your swing out west. You’ll see the potential that Animal Kingdom had.

P.S.S. – It’s been my observation that the Car 1 crowd views Disney products very much as a gift, something that we must both accept unconditionally and that one must show proper gratitude for. The Car 3 crowd seems to view Disney products as a business transaction, they judge them by value received for the price and how the product matches one’s own taste and desires. I think the vast public tends to see things like the fans in Car 3 does. If Disney wants to continue as a business, they need to give to public want its willing to pay for.

 

[Peter Pirate]

My words do seem to do strange things to your imagination, don't they Voice?

I have been to AK a lot this year and I can tell you it has always been VERY busy, so when the next numbers are 'leaked' I don't believe we will see AK as the dog it has been made out to be.

...not a private hangout for those "who get the concept".

Jeez Louise AV, it's been a number of threads since I flamed most of the (un)civilized world...Can't we let bygones be...Well, you know...

I really do take exception to your continual portrayal of my taste as basically "anything Disney gives us." While it's true that I like PW you must remember that in my 46 year existence on this orbiting hunk or rock, I have never experieiced anything remotely like PW. So should my personal experience be influenced by those many of you who obviuosly have? I can accept that it isn't a great ride and nee definately isn't anywhere near classic Disney standards, but the "weenie" was given to smaller kids (IMO) as an adddition in an area that really needed it. But as to my standards, why is it ok for you to suggest that I had to have "lowered my standards" to like AK but if I suggest that people who don't like AK simply don't get it, I become some evil elitist? Aren't we playing the same game?

Now you've just posted that AK fails on both of is missions, au contraire monfraire! Educationally AK gives us plenty, or does talking to the CM's from the host countries or from animal services not count? We have learned so much more here & at AKL than we ever learned at SeaWorld or Metro Zoo (Miami) or even the SD Zoo....And enough about "Big Red" OK? The story is cute and it's a fun way to get us back to camp, otherwise we'd be out there for two weeks!

As for the Aquarium, well it's not currently in my plans but I'm looking at my itinery for time slots...

 

[Bstanley]

Disney built AK as a business, not a private hang-out for the people who “get the concept”. And while it’s good that some people can still lower, er, I mean change their expectations, I’d really like to hear how ‘Primeval Whirl’ is not just a spreadsheet friendly weenie for the excitement crowd.

Meowr...my, my... we DID have our saucer of milk today, didn't we?

Well now I know what AV wanted AK to be. I've never visited the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but I'll substitute the San Diego Zoo (SDZ) instead in my mind and comment on it.

When my family visits Southern CA I 'take' my family to see the SDZ (in fact the last trip the older one asked to skip it), when we go to WDW they continue to ask to go to AK (next Feb will be the next data point).

When we visit the SDZ I think to myself, wow this is really a great zoo and the shows are pretty kewl, but by 3pm everybody has seen just about all the small furry creatures they want to see and they want to move on. When we vist AK we alternate between attractions - creatures - shows and my band doesn't want to leave until it's time for supper. Especially this last trip with the Jammin' Jungle Parade added in we didn't get out of the place until the CMs ran us off.

The people who work with the animals at SDK are wonderful to talk to, the CMs at AK who work with the animals are wonderful to talk to. The SDK is fairly 'attractive', AK is visually stunning (right down to every last detail). Blah, blah...

To summarize, it may be true that AK is not a SDK class 'zoo', but frankly I and my band of merry travelers have found it to be a much more entertaining and involving mix of entertainment than the SDK, period. So apparently do 5 Million people (the difference between visitors to SDK and visitors to AK).

I think AK would benefit from new things - what Theme park doesn't need new things every so often? I haven't seen PW yet, but Fantasyland has Dumbos going around and around and I've never found that to be particularly Magical, but I think the MK is Magical.


P.S. You're wrong AV - of course AK is a "private hang-out for the people who 'get the concept' ", AK is no different than the MK or Epcot, etc. in that regard. There are MILLIONS of people who don't get the concept of WDW - I've got neighbors across the street in their sixties that have NEVER visited WDW. For crying out loud - I've got a former employee that lives in Orlando who hasn't taken his children to WDW in the 5 years since he moved there! Sheer insanity in my mind...