So many resorts, so many members now...

[CanadaDisney05]

Honestly, I think online booking has had a bigger impact as well. It is so easy to book a reservation..and cancel if needed.l.than having to call. Therefore, people, like myself, book things even when not 100% sure I am going. And the easier it is to book, the harder it will be to change resorts at 7 months

Not even sure if they can, but what if they put in a cancellation fee? For example, everyone gets one free modification per trip (so that you can book home resort at 11 months and trade at 7 months without penalty). After that, any modifications would be charged a $20 fee. Not exactly sure what the mechanics would have to be for those who book multiple stays in a year.

 

[Sandisw]

Not even sure if they can, but what if they put in a cancellation fee? For example, everyone gets one free modification per trip (so that you can book home resort at 11 months and trade at 7 months without penalty). After that, any modifications would be charged a $20 fee. Not exactly sure what the mechanics would have to be for those who book multiple stays in a year.

I would hope they never do that. It would mean that if plans change, etc. it would cost you, Sometimes, at 11 months, people done know what airfare will be, or who will always be coming,

I think the change would be worse. I just retired and plan to go at least 8 times a year and can be flexible with the days that I go. My original March trip was going to be mid month. But, when 7 months came around, I ended up adjusting things later because I was able to get the trip at CCV.

So, forcing people to pay a change feel or even cancel fee would probably not help as much as one thinks. People do have the right to book points so yeah, competition is going to be tougher now that the systems is so much larger,

 

[thegales]

After I posted above I really started to think about this. With the addition of RR and the next new DVC Reflections coming on line that will add a lot of new members, great for Disney. The problem is that with the last restriction placed on DVC resales people buy in after that change can only book at the original 14 but the new members at the new DVCs can book at all DVCs. IMHO this will definitely have a negative impact on the original 14 DVCs and cause more frustrations especially to those who have been members for many years.

The concept of your point may still be correct, but I don't think your statement is 100% correct. Anyone buying direct from Disney at the original 14 can book both the original 14 and the new DVC resorts. Anyone buying direct at the new DVC resorts can also book the original 14 and the new DVC resorts.

Any one buying resale is limited to either the original 14 or the new resort(s?) depending on where they bought resale.

With these Riviera and Reflections being new, there will be limited folks buying resale at those resorts. So your point of all the direct buyers at these resorts competing for the original 14 is very valid. But as these resorts get more resale, the competition will lessen. Although, Disney will create new resorts starting the cycle over again.
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My thought on why availability is so tough is that resorts are being built that have units with un-proportionately high number of points compared to other units (Bungalows at Poly for example). Since the Bungalows remain vacant a lot, those Poly owners are taking units at other resorts.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

Not even sure if they can, but what if they put in a cancellation fee? For example, everyone gets one free modification per trip (so that you can book home resort at 11 months and trade at 7 months without penalty). After that, any modifications would be charged a $20 fee. Not exactly sure what the mechanics would have to be for those who book multiple stays in a year.

I don't like this idea at all. This year we were going to do a family trip for everybody but unfortunately those plans had to be changed. My DDIL fell down a set of steps and shattered her ankle and broke her leg, she had two surgery's with metal plates and rod being inserted in her leg. That part of our family decided it would be better to wait a year giving DDIL more time to heal consequently I had to cancel the GV I had reserved and change to two bedroom. I wouldn't want to have to pay a fee if it became necessary to make changes to original plans.

I know you said your idea was for any changes past one, on the end of our trip we are going to VB, I made the reservation but later decided to add a day. This would result in another change causing the charge to kick in. No I wouldn't like that at all.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I don't like this idea at all. This year we were going to do a family trip for everybody but unfortunately those plans had to be changed. My DDIL fell down a set of steps and shattered her ankle and broke her leg, she had two surgery's with metal plates and rod being inserted in her leg. That part of our family decided it would be better to wait a year giving DDIL more time to heal consequently I had to cancel the GV I had reserved and change to two bedroom. I wouldn't want to have to pay a fee if it became necessary to make changes to original plans.

I know you said your idea was for any changes past one, on the end of our trip we are going to VB, I made the reservation but later decided to add a day. This would result in another change causing the charge to kick in. No I wouldn't like that at all.

I'm not really suggesting it. Just spit balling ideas. It would have to be a minimal fee that's annoying, but not really that big of a deal. That's why I suggested something like $20. If you lost $20 on a 6K vacation, its pretty minor. But atleast it prevents things like walking, and constant room modifications. I guess my thought process is to implement something similar to the restaurant cancellation policy.

 

[Madame]

I'm not really suggesting it. Just spit balling ideas. It would have to be a minimal fee that's annoying, but not really that big of a deal. That's why I suggested something like $20. If you lost $20 on a 6K vacation, its pretty minor. But atleast it prevents things like walking, and constant room modifications. I guess my thought process is to implement something similar to the restaurant cancellation policy.

It would also prevent last minute bookers like myself from picking up days in order to try to piece together a stay where we don't change rooms every night. This not only is beneficial to the late booker but the membership as a whole - split stays cost more money due to room turnover. I have pieced together an early Aug stay from 1.5 months out (ended up in one room), a late Aug stay from 4 days out (2 resort split) and a NYE stay (ended up in a 2 resort split after MANY changes) 2 weeks out. $20 per change would have cost ME hundreds and the membership a lot of fees in room turnover.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

I'm not really suggesting it. Just spit balling ideas. It would have to be a minimal fee that's annoying, but not really that big of a deal. That's why I suggested something like $20. If you lost $20 on a 6K vacation, its pretty minor. But atleast it prevents things like walking, and constant room modifications. I guess my thought process is to implement something similar to the restaurant cancellation policy.

I get your point, kind of like the policy of charging you cc for no shows on dining reservations. They didn't use to charge, I think this was a good idea to prevent people from making more then one reservation for dining knowing full well they were only going to one place.

If you idea worked the way the charge on dining worked it could possible help the situation. Members wouldn't have to walk their reservation if they knew there would be availability when their 11 month window opened. I just don't know that everybody would be on board with this, you would loose a lot of flexibility if this were implemented.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

It would also prevent last minute bookers like myself from picking up days in order to try to piece together a stay where we don't change rooms every night. This not only is beneficial to the late booker but the membership as a whole - split stays cost more money due to room turnover. I have pieced together an early Aug stay from 1.5 months out (ended up in one room), a late Aug stay from 4 days out (2 resort split) and a NYE stay (ended up in a 2 resort split after MANY changes) 2 weeks out. $20 per change would have cost ME hundreds and the membership a lot of fees in room turnover.

I haven't worked out all of the mechanics. I'm sure there could be some stipulations that could be put in place to allow for certain situations.

On a positive note, the "fees" would go back into the resort, therefore lowering membership dues. In theory it would work similar to taxes on drugs, alcohol, and carbon tax.... ( he brought up a contentious issue the night after the election!) Yes they technically increase taxes paid for certain items, but they reduce the required taxes to be pulled from other sources. It's one way governments control the population's behavior.

 

[Geomom]

I haven't worked out all of the mechanics. I'm sure there could be some stipulations that could be put in place to allow for certain situations.

On a positive note, the "fees" would go back into the resort, therefore lowering membership dues. In theory it would work similar to taxes on drugs, alcohol, and carbon tax.... ( he brought up a contentious issue the night after the election!) Yes they technically increase taxes paid for certain items, but they reduce the required taxes to be pulled from other sources. It's one way governments control the population's behavior.

Maybe 5 changes/reservation for free--leaving enough room to make actual changes to your reservation and to discourage walking more than 4-5 days.

 

[Sandisw]

I haven't worked out all of the mechanics. I'm sure there could be some stipulations that could be put in place to allow for certain situations.

On a positive note, the "fees" would go back into the resort, therefore lowering membership dues. In theory it would work similar to taxes on drugs, alcohol, and carbon tax.... ( he brought up a contentious issue the night after the election!) Yes they technically increase taxes paid for certain items, but they reduce the required taxes to be pulled from other sources. It's one way governments control the population's behavior.

But aren’t people who are booking and making changes other owners? It means they are using their points. Adding a change fee would cause more problems in the long run,

My son just decided he wanted to go to WDW for February break last week. When I went on, there wasn’t much so I booked what I could. Throughout the week, I modified several times to get them in one room type for all 3 days.

Yes, the window to change out at 7 months is getting more difficult, but I don’t think penalizing Owners who want or need flexibility is the answer,

Granted DVC Is making changes for resale buyers and things are not the same as they once were, but trying to micromanage everyone’s booking needs would not be the answer,, at least in my opinion.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

But aren’t people who are booking and making changes other owners? It means they are using their points. Adding a change fee would cause more problems in the long run,

My son just decided he wanted to go to WDW for February break last week. When I went on, there wasn’t much so I booked what I could. Throughout the week, I modified several times to get them in one room type for all 3 days.

Yes, the window to change out at 7 months is getting more difficult, but I don’t think penalizing Owners who want or need flexibility is the answer,

Granted DVC Is making changes for resale buyers and things are not the same as they once were, but trying to micromanage everyone’s booking needs would not be the answer,, at least in my opinion.

It's a chicken and egg scenario. You need to modify the reservation several times because there's no availability immediately. There's no availability because members are walking, and booking just in case reservations.

 

[Sandisw]

It's a chicken and egg scenario. You need to modify the reservation several times because there's no availability immediately. There's no availability because members are walking, and booking just in case reservations.

You are right. But I’d rather have that then not having the flexibility to use DVC to meet my needs and be able to modify then not.

But, I realize other members don’t. The good news is one can always book home resort and if changing out doesn’t happen, at least one can be happy there!

 

[Madame]

It's a chicken and egg scenario. You need to modify the reservation several times because there's no availability immediately. There's no availability because members are walking, and booking just in case reservations.

Not really. In all of my reservations we were well within the 30 day holding penalty period when I finished modifying. The freed up rooms were people canceling last minute no doubt due to unforseeable circumstances (illness, death,etc). Members don't cancel within 30 days without reason, generally speaking. The flexibility in the system is what sold many ON the system. The cure here is worse than the disease.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

You are right. But I’d rather have that then not having the flexibility to use DVC to meet my needs and be able to modify then not.

But, I realize other members don’t. The good news is one can always book home resort and if changing out doesn’t happen, at least one can be happy there!

Again, I'm not actually suggesting implementing a policy like this exactly how I described it. But I do think it's a worthwhile exercise to at least see if a policy that sort of looks like this would cure a lot of the availability issues. The thought process would be that there would become much more availability in the system so you wouldn't need to cancel that many times to get what you want.

Keep in mind, a policy like this doesn't actually limit your flexibility. You can still cancel as much as you want. You would just pay a price. Honest question, if DVC offered you a deal where you can pay an extra $100, but guarantee your reservation at your resort of choice for your given dates, would you do it?

Not really. In all of my reservations we were well within the 30 day holding penalty period when I finished modifying. The freed up rooms were people canceling last minute no doubt due to unforseeable circumstances (illness, death,etc). Members don't cancel within 30 days without reason, generally speaking. The flexibility in the system is what sold many ON the system. The cure here is worse than the disease.

I haven't thought out all of the logistics, but perhaps you put a time frame on it. All reservations cancelled more than 2 months out are subject to this fee. Maybe you allow 3 cancellations per year for free. I don't know exactly. But there are ways around it

 

[Madame]

Again, I'm not actually suggesting implementing a policy like this exactly how I described it. But I do think it's a worthwhile exercise to at least see if a policy that sort of looks like this would cure a lot of the availability issues. The thought process would be that there would become much more availability in the system so you wouldn't need to cancel that many times to get what you want.

Keep in mind, a policy like this doesn't actually limit your flexibility. You can still cancel as much as you want. You would just pay a price. Honest question, if DVC offered you a deal where you can pay an extra $100, but guarantee your reservation at your resort of choice for your given dates, would you do it?



I haven't thought out all of the logistics, but perhaps you put a time frame on it. All reservations cancelled more than 2 months out are subject to this fee. Maybe you allow 3 cancellations per year for free. I don't know exactly. But there are ways around it

I actually agree with you that it would be helpful, but unfortunately it's not just a timeshare, it's a Disney timeshare. This means people expect that exceptions apply to them (because Disney sets up those expectations). In the last few months I have seen the following on FB: My husband is getting deployed, my kid broke his clavical (I think that was the bone, but some bone) and there is a hurricane coming. The general response of the membership (not here) was, "call Disney," "contact Disney" "Disney will help." I am not against this sort of thing, but people forget that this is a timeshare. It's Disney culture and has been promoted as such by the company and so not easy to change.

 

[Sandisw]

Again, I'm not actually suggesting implementing a policy like this exactly how I described it. But I do think it's a worthwhile exercise to at least see if a policy that sort of looks like this would cure a lot of the availability issues. The thought process would be that there would become much more availability in the system so you wouldn't need to cancel that many times to get what you want.

Keep in mind, a policy like this doesn't actually limit your flexibility. You can still cancel as much as you want. You would just pay a price. Honest question, if DVC offered you a deal where you can pay an extra $100, but guarantee your reservation at your resort of choice for your given dates, would you do it?



I haven't thought out all of the logistics, but perhaps you put a time frame on it. All reservations cancelled more than 2 months out are subject to this fee. Maybe you allow 3 cancellations per year for free. I don't know exactly. But there are ways around it

Charging would limit flexibility in the sense that you would be penalized for needing/wanting to change.

What you are suggesting is making it so that owners have to be locked into vacations simply so someone else who wants to stay at a resort other than their own, or who don’t plan in advance, have a chance to get what they want?

There is already a penalty for cancellation. 31 days or less,the points are in holding.

The more owners in the DVC system, the harder it will be to get reservations with short term planning. Obviously, someone who goes to Disney not too often doesn’t see the change as a big deal. For me, it would be because I do plan to visit often. I think more people than not would object to the fee, but again, my opinion!

However, if you want to do a fee, then it applies to everyone for any change..names, dates, etc. Because that would be the only fair way to do it so it impacts all members, regardless of how many trips they decide to take.

Back to the original point, It is busy now to book and the best solution is to recognize that as an owner and plan for it.

 

[jbh275]

SSR was the tipping point. It was huge.

I'm really disappointed with the SSR refurbishment they didn't upgrade the studios to sleep 5. I really feel it would have pulled more reservations towards that resort. I'm a family of 5, we only stay where studios sleep 5.

On another point, I think the tipping point was Aulani. They created 11,500,000 points for that resort, they've probably sold 60% of those points. I searched this morning, 2 and 3 Bed Villas had full availability for the next 6 weeks. Meaning, every night that those rooms sit empty, is a member who didn't use their points there and is planning on using them at WDW at the 7 month mark.

 

[crvetter]

Honest question, if DVC offered you a deal where you can pay an extra $100, but guarantee your reservation at your resort of choice for your given dates, would you do it?

They do this and have since Aulani. They offer Guaranteed Weeks and by all indications only VGF had any real interest in buying Guaranteed Weeks. I do think Riviera has sold a few Guaranteed Weeks for the first 2 weeks of December. But overall it seems most direct owners (and seasoned DIS members adding on) aren't too interested. Though we could say first time direct buyers are unaware of the booking issues, in fact DVC guides are very reluctant to give you availability information during a sales meeting.

 

[granmanh603]

And probably not just SSR, but Vero as well. I think the whole concept of buy here, stay elsewhere is not in the best interest of the purchaser or other owners, it is a drag on the system as a whole...and yes, I know DVC was marketed that way, unlike OKW. Early purchasers, like us in 1992, were never promised new resorts, or a right to trade into them, OKW was the only DVC resort at the time...with Newport Beach announced in 1994, and Vero quietly rumored and opened in 1995. I think DVC thought Vero would be a different type of draw, and members would by both...OKW for the park vacations and Vero for the beach vacations, and expected fairly minimal trading between the two, except for the Holidays (remember the Lottery system). So far, I have stayed at OKW for every trip, except for one stay in a Poly studio. That is not to say I don't want to try BLT sometime, but I do love my OKW. Boardwalk and Beach Club just aren't that appealing to me...and mostly for those owners, OKW doesn't appeal to them.

See we are all different. I bought BWV in 2000 only one selling. Love it there would stay only there in a heartbeat but love OKW too. Own add ons at SSR. Staying there end of week because I could get my home resort BWV thanks to walkers. As someone stated earlier you can’t even get a studio at 11 month 8AM at BWV in Oct my preferred time. Oh and the SSR room I got is a 1br for 2 for only 5 days. Actually with all what I read about new tram thing I’m glad I’m not staying at my once peaceful resort.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

They do this and have since Aulani. They offer Guaranteed Weeks and by all indications only VGF had any real interest in buying Guaranteed Weeks. I do think Riviera has sold a few Guaranteed Weeks for the first 2 weeks of December. But overall it seems most direct owners (and seasoned DIS members adding on) aren't too interested. Though we could say first time direct buyers are unaware of the booking issues, in fact DVC guides are very reluctant to give you availability information during a sales meeting.

IMO, I was thinking more along the lines of an added fee when actually booking, so that you still maintain flexibility. The problem with the "guaranteed" week program is that it's the same time period every single year for 50 years. I wasn't actually thinking this was a practical application, but more curious of how much people are willing to pay for added flexibility.