So much for the idea of arming teachers

[mnrose]

My concern about the idea comes from the straightforward statistics - accidental shootings are much, much more common than mass shootings. We had a deputy leave a gun unattended in a jacket in a school near here, a prosecutor do the same in the next county over. We've all heard the stories of kids who got Mom's gun out of her purse or Dad's gun out of the drawer and accidentally shot themselves/someone else. And frankly, I'm not sure a gun in the hands of most of the teachers I know would make anyone safer - teaching is a heavily female profession, after all, and virtually all mass shootings are carried out by men. The idea of a troubled student overpowering a smaller teacher doesn't seem all that far fetched, and is a concern I've heard from several teacher friends.

In our area, a third grader in a school setting put his finger on a police officer's trigger (in the school) and pulled it, discharging the weapon. Fortunately, no one was injured. But if teachers everywhere are "armed" how long before there's an accidental shooting that kills someone? I give it a couple of months.

 

[LSUmiss]

Of course you "shouldn't" have to add this burden, but guess what - that's not really up to me OR to you. This is the world in which we live and NOTHING is going to change that in our lifetimes.

You know, this is personal to me too. My wife is a school secretary, my sister a para, both parents retired teachers, and both kids in school - one of whom was targeted by a kid who was thankfully stopped after his social media post. Nobody is asking you to carry a gun. But, are you honestly telling me you wouldn't blast an intruder with pepper spray (for example) if he were to burst into your classroom?

I work at a school too & with some of the ppl I see & know at these schools, I would be much more concerned for my safety if they were armed vs the possibility of a student school shooting.

 

[Colleen27]

Of course you "shouldn't" have to add this burden, but guess what - that's not really up to me OR to you. This is the world in which we live and NOTHING is going to change that in our lifetimes.

You know, this is personal to me too. My wife is a school secretary, my sister a para, both parents retired teachers, and both kids in school - one of whom was targeted by a kid who was thankfully stopped after his social media post. Nobody is asking you to carry a gun. But, are you honestly telling me you wouldn't blast an intruder with pepper spray (for example) if he were to burst into your classroom?

That just seems like such a defeatist attitude. This problem started and became widespread in our lifetimes. Why is it unthinkable that something might change in the other direction?

 

[Hikergirl]

My concern about the idea comes from the straightforward statistics - accidental shootings are much, much more common than mass shootings. We had a deputy leave a gun unattended in a jacket in a school near here, a prosecutor do the same in the next county over. We've all heard the stories of kids who got Mom's gun out of her purse or Dad's gun out of the drawer and accidentally shot themselves/someone else. And frankly, I'm not sure a gun in the hands of most of the teachers I know would make anyone safer - teaching is a heavily female profession, after all, and virtually all mass shootings are carried out by men. The idea of a troubled student overpowering a smaller teacher doesn't seem all that far fetched, and is a concern I've heard from several teacher friends.

I agree with the first part of your post, the only person I truly trust with firearms around my kids is my dh. I know the precautions he takes with his, I don't know what others do.
I really don't know if guns in the hands of teachers would make anyone safer. It isn't something we'll even know unless it happens.

 

[MamaBelle4]

This isn’t an issue in Canada but I have two teachers in the family (sister and future sister in law) and they both say they’d homeschool if this ever came to pass. Not just for their safety, but for their children’s safety too.

Yes, this would be the tipping point that would make me do cyber school for my kids. I love most of my kids' teachers (one was new and yelled A LOT at the first graders because she just couldn't control them), but there is not one that they've had that I would even trust to hold a gun. I'm pretty sure my favorite one would shoot himself in the foot. No way I would be sending my kids to school with armed teachers. Would not happen.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Yet these shooters often choose the same type of weapons.

The worst school shooting in our history was Virginia Tech. Two small caliber handguns were chosen.

The AR-15 is the most popular rifle in this country. And it's the gun of choice in all these 1st person shooter video games. And it's scary looking. And it's a lot of monkey see, monkey do. These nutters see that was the choice last time, they choose it this time. But, it's no more "deadly" than any of hundreds of other potential choices.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I agree with the first part of your post, the only person I truly trust with firearms around my kids is my dh.

100% how I feel too.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I hear this a lot. The difference is 50 years ago, we owned hunting rifles and not assault rifles. Look at Canada, no restrictions on hunting rifles, heavy restrictions on semi automatics, and they have 10% of the shootings we have

It's easier to buy an assault style rifle in most parts of Canada than it is in most Northeastern states. Handguns are another story. And the modern semi-auto has been available in America for 120+ years. The most popular handgun today is the model 1911 (named for the year it debuted). Prior to 1934, one could buy a fully automatic machine gun at Montgomery Wards. Admittedly, semi-autos are more popular today than in years past. But, they've been readily available for a very long time.

 

[BrookieM2001]

There are MANY reasons why arming teachers and expecting them to stop mass shooters is a terrible idea. Most have been discussed here, so i wont beat that dead horse. However, i cant figure out why more people in this discussion (national discussion, not this particular thread) arent discussing the reality that many teachers are women. Especially in high school, the boys can be and often are bigger than their female teachers. How long would it be before a student who cannot get their hands on a gun, because of failing the background check or being too young, whatever, and takes that gun from the teacher...?

I mean, obviously women can fight just as effectively as men and are not weaklings, but physiologically many of these boys are strong and capable of incapacitating their teacher if they so choose. Its a scary reality that most female upper level educators have to deal with, and now we are talking about putting the pressure of potentially providing the weapon that killed her students to the shooter because of her inability to stop him?? This is an absurd suggestion. Day in and day out having to be 1000% vigilant of a firearm during the normal operating of a classroom is impossible. Having the gun accessible makes it too easy for someone else to take and use, but making it less accessible makes is basically worthless in a time of need. There is no solution to these issues, which is why it just isnt a safe or feasible solution to the problem.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Have AR-15s?

AR-15's have been around since the early 1960's. Earlier semi-auto rifles were typically a couple pounds heavier, but also WAY more powerful.

 

[Jennasis]

Arming teachers either voluntarily or mandatory is a terrible idea. That is all.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I work at a school too & with some of the ppl I see & know at these schools, I would be much more concerned for my safety if they were armed vs the possibility of a student school shooting.

I didn't say "armed", in fact I quite specifically gave another alternative.

 

[bcla]

The worst school shooting in our history was Virginia Tech. Two small caliber handguns were chosen.

The AR-15 is the most popular rifle in this country. And it's the gun of choice in all these 1st person shooter video games. And it's scary looking. And it's a lot of monkey see, monkey do. These nutters see that was the choice last time, they choose it this time. But, it's no more "deadly" than any of hundreds of other potential choices.

A long gun is typically more accurate, and .223 is more powerful than most handgun rounds and generally more controllable. Anything could be "deadly", but it's pretty well suited for mass shootings. I don't really see anyone going with a .44 Magnum or .50 AE for any kind of mass shooting. Those look tough in movies, but they're often impractical.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That just seems like such a defeatist attitude. This problem started and became widespread in our lifetimes. Why is it unthinkable that something might change in the other direction?

Sure, the trend might change, but the POSSIBILITY is NOT going away. I'm a here & now kind of guy. There are things we can do NOW irrespective of gun laws, that don't require arming teachers, and don't cost a lot. Maybe these things would help a little, maybe a lot. I think it's worth a try.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

A long gun is typically more accurate, and .223 is more powerful than most handgun rounds and generally more controllable. Anything could be "deadly", but it's pretty well suited for mass shootings. I don't really see anyone going with a .44 Magnum or .50 AE for any kind of mass shooting. Those look tough in movies, but they're often impractical.

At close range though, it's more awkward and doesn't really provide more stopping power than a modern handgun even in 9mm. That's why Special Ops guys often choose handguns or sub-machine guns for "room to room" missions rather than M4's. Plus, you can't readily conceal a rifle. Besides, even if all we're talking about is .223, there a countless options other than the AR.

 

[longboard55]

Would you give an 18 year old with social and depression problems the keys to a maserati and expect he would not speed. Yes its image, that is the problem

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Would you give an 18 year old with social and depression problems the keys to a maserati and expect he would not speed. Yes its image, that is the problem

I don't know if such a kid would be more or less likely to speed than any other 18-year-old in a Maserati. But, I do agree the temptation to speed in a Maserati is much greater than it is in say a Prius even though both cars CAN speed. I think that's true of older drivers too LOL

 

[bcla]

At close range though, it's more awkward and doesn't really provide more stopping power than a modern handgun even in 9mm. That's why Special Ops guys often choose handguns or sub-machine guns for "room to room" missions rather than M4's. Plus, you can't readily conceal a rifle. Besides, even if all we're talking about is .223, there a countless options other than the AR.

He wasn't really looking to conceal anything. 30-round magazines? A rifle is still far easier to control than a handgun.

Granted the Luby's shooting rather gave a reputation for the Glock 17 as a mass-shooting weapon.

 

[luvsJack]

I work on a college campus so different than high school or younger but half our staff is carrying. They all have a conceal carry permit that allows them to have it on campus. From the VP on down. I wouldn’t have a clue which one had a gun on which day and neither would our students. That takes away the accidental shooting danger. If teachers are armed, the students shouldn’t know it.

I don’t think every teacher should be armed. Dd had a teacher in highschool that went into a panic when two boys got into a fight. She kept screaming “call 911” and they kept trying to tell her they couldn’t but they needed the extension to the office. Finally the boy just started punching 0 on the phone on her desk and got someone. While another student ran to the coach’s classroom a few doors down. She definitely does not need to be armed.

But they had several teachers that were retired military, National Guards and a couple of former cops. I can see having them armed.

A school shooting in Pearl MS was stopped by an administrator with a gun. So it can help.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

He wasn't really looking to conceal anything. 30-round magazines? A rifle is still far easier to control than a handgun.

Granted the Luby's shooting rather gave a reputation for the Glock 17 as a mass-shooting weapon.

It's also easier to grab away from a shooter than a handgun because it's harder to make dramatic changes in your aim. It's really just a matter of vicinity. The further the victims are from the shooter, the more a handgun loses effectiveness. The closer you are, the less it matters.