So what gives with 2000 Disney Californian employees being transferred to Florida?

[TiggerBouncy]

Those are the, and there may be more, issues but there isn't a direct, sizable concrete thing - they weren't literally forced out or given orders to move, is my point. There was no Prop 10 banning Disney from working in Burbank. They, as a company, made a choice. Wanting to cut overhead by consolidating is a real thing for a business - but it's not as though all similar jobs in the field around the country are moving to another country because of a huge shift in labor or production costs, right? That's what I mean. From what I've read, this will affect their bottom line - but absolutely none of the articles I've read suggested that without this move happening imminently, the Walt Disney Company would shut down in 6-12 months (I haven't even seen articles that say without this move, they'd have to shut down). So, I think it then seems clear that there was a cost/benefit analysis and choice made. Is there a thing you've seen that said Disney's hand was forced and if they hadn't ____ in ___ days, they'd have to close?

I guess I am confused about where you are going with this. Are you saying because they didn't have to do it RIGHT NOW, they shouldn't have done it? When should they do it? If it's a decision that's made and in the best interests of the company, why delay?

As far as the original post is concerned, I think others have said it. There is a mass exodus of company's from CA. It's not very business friendly right now and Newsom has screwed the state. I do not think the people there know just how bad it's going to get yet. I certainly wouldn't want to be living in CA right now. Between Tesla and Disney, you would think CA would get the message, but....

I have had my headquarters move a couple of times. One time I moved with them. Another I did not. It's not a matter of laying people off, although certainly there is an expectation of management that a certain percentage of the workforce will not elect to take the move. But if Disney did not WANT those people to move, they wouldn't give them the option. They do not have to offer to move EVERYONE. They can certainly pick and choose by being creative. Workforce reduction? Possibly. But not a layoff per se.

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

Besides business related concerns with California, Disney World is just so much bigger. So having imagineering closer to that rather than Disney Land makes a lot of sense too.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Besides business related concerns with California, Disney World is just so much bigger. So having imagineering closer to that rather than Disney Land makes a lot of sense too.

Not to mention, they have a lot more land in FL that they can do things with. Land in CA is expensive, and difficult to work with. In Florida, they can do just about anything on their land; and that includes building and utilities.

As a side note, I really, really miss when HS was a functioning studio and you could see them working. I would be really happy if they brought that back.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

As far as the original post is concerned, I think others have said it. There is a mass exodus of company's from CA. It's not very business friendly right now and Newsom has screwed the state. I do not think the people there know just how bad it's going to get yet. I certainly wouldn't want to be living in CA right now. Between Tesla and Disney, you would think CA would get the message, but....

This is largely overblown by vocal billionaires who want to pay less in income taxes. For every company that moves out, more are created to take their place.

I say this as someone who lives in the midwest and secretly hopes enough people move out of California that I can buy a cheap property and retire there. People aren't moving out fast enough to cause any meaningful change in the economics of the state though from what I've seen.

 

[CarolynFH]

As a side note, I really, really miss when HS was a functioning studio and you could see them working. I would be really happy if they brought that back.

Hear, hear!

 

[TiggerBouncy]

This is largely overblown by vocal billionaires who want to pay less in income taxes. For every company that moves out, more are created to take their place.

I say this as someone who lives in the midwest and secretly hopes enough people move out of California that I can buy a cheap property and retire there. People aren't moving out fast enough to cause any meaningful change in the economics of the state though from what I've seen.

The facts do not back up your assertions based on the surveys by the US Census and other studies.

California back in the 90's had a gain of over 25%. while in 2010 that was down to 10% and 2020 down to just 6.1%. For domestic migration, CA had a loss of over 173K in 2019. Compare this to Florida (a company friendly state) which had a net gain of over 200K and Texas also over 200K. In fact, CA lost a congressional seat due to population loss.

But you were talking companies and not citizens. It should be understood that one is connected to the other. It's a given fact that citizens are leaving CA. Lets talk about companies then.

According to the Hoover Institute of Stanford, CA lost 74 (national) businesses over the first half of 2021. Since 2018, CA has lost over 265 (national) companies with 114 of those moving to Texas (these are not companies shutting down, but companies moving).

Do you know some of the bigger names that left? They include Apple, HP, Oracle, Tesla, Nestle... These are not small events. Silicon Valley is no longer the tech capital of the US, and Hollywood is no longer the movie powerhouse (it's being overtaken by Georgia).

Citation:
https://californiaglobe.com/article...y-other-year-prior-according-to-new-analysis/
Citation:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammi...t-biden-should-pay-attention/?sh=580526602327
Here is another study for you...
https://www.southstarcommunities.com/blog/companies-leave-california-bound-for-texas"The study estimates that 1,800 relocation or "disinvestment events" occurred in 2016, the most recent year available, setting a record yearly high going back to 2008. About 13,000 companies left the state during that nine-year period. "

"During the study period, 275,000 jobs and $76.7 billion in capital funds were diverted out of California. "

Note that those 275,000 jobs are tax losses. Those Capital Funds are tax losses. The people doing these studies? Not billionaires who are overstating cases. These are research firms.

And all of them state the same things. High taxes, and an unfriendly business environment are causing jobs and companies to shift out of the state into more business friendly states.

Bottom line, if companies continue to leave the state in breakneck paces and the people follow the companies, CA's economy will continue to suffer more and more. They have not realized how bad it is yet, but the tree's roots are rotting and it's only a matter of time before the foliage follows.

 

[AvidDisReader]

The facts do not back up your assertions based on the surveys by the US Census and other studies.

California back in the 90's had a gain of over 25%. while in 2010 that was down to 10% and 2020 down to just 6.1%. For domestic migration, CA had a loss of over 173K in 2019. Compare this to Florida (a company friendly state) which had a net gain of over 200K and Texas also over 200K. In fact, CA lost a congressional seat due to population loss.

But you were talking companies and not citizens. It should be understood that one is connected to the other. It's a given fact that citizens are leaving CA. Lets talk about companies then.

According to the Hoover Institute of Stanford, CA lost 74 (national) businesses over the first half of 2021. Since 2018, CA has lost over 265 (national) companies with 114 of those moving to Texas (these are not companies shutting down, but companies moving).

Do you know some of the bigger names that left? They include Apple, HP, Oracle, Tesla, Nestle... These are not small events. Silicon Valley is no longer the tech capital of the US, and Hollywood is no longer the movie powerhouse (it's being overtaken by Georgia).

Citation:
https://californiaglobe.com/article...y-other-year-prior-according-to-new-analysis/
Citation:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammi...t-biden-should-pay-attention/?sh=580526602327
Here is another study for you...
https://www.southstarcommunities.com/blog/companies-leave-california-bound-for-texas"The study estimates that 1,800 relocation or "disinvestment events" occurred in 2016, the most recent year available, setting a record yearly high going back to 2008. About 13,000 companies left the state during that nine-year period. "

"During the study period, 275,000 jobs and $76.7 billion in capital funds were diverted out of California. "

Note that those 275,000 jobs are tax losses. Those Capital Funds are tax losses. The people doing these studies? Not billionaires who are overstating cases. These are research firms.

And all of them state the same things. High taxes, and an unfriendly business environment are causing jobs and companies to shift out of the state into more business friendly states.

Bottom line, if companies continue to leave the state in breakneck paces and the people follow the companies, CA's economy will continue to suffer more and more. They have not realized how bad it is yet, but the tree's roots are rotting and it's only a matter of time before the foliage follows.

Yes, all you have to do is see the budget deficits in New York that has been seeing mass migration that started before California current migration. Sooner or later, if you continue to tax the heck out of everything, business leaders are going to look around. This is still a mostly capitalistic nation and businesses are required to do what is best for their stock holders. So if you can relocate to a more business friendly state (meaning less taxes). it would be negligence not to consider.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Yes, all you have to do is see the budget deficits in New York that has been seeing mass migration that started before California current migration. Sooner or later, if you continue to tax the heck out of everything, business leaders are going to look around. This is still a mostly capitalistic nation and businesses are required to do what is best for their stock holders. So if you can relocate to a more business friendly state (meaning less taxes). it would be negligence not to consider.

Exactly. And those big businesses are not being replaced by other national businesses because they do not want to move into the unfriendly area. They are being replaced by local retailers (like Best Buy and Walmart) which replace those high income earners with low income wages.

The long term effect of that is on the states budget. When the states budget collapses, that means no more investment in things like infrastructure and it goes into a tailspin.

In short, if CA continues it's self-detrimental policies, they will catch up to it sooner or later (and the writing on the wall is sooner).

 

[TinkAgainU]

Yes, the cost of living combined with no state income tax means those moving would be sitting pretty well even with no additional incentives like moving expenses etc.

Pretty sure what Florida misses in state income tax, they collect in property taxes. California does have decent property taxes.

 

[MMSM]

Yes, all you have to do is see the budget deficits in New York that has been seeing mass migration that started before California current migration. Sooner or later, if you continue to tax the heck out of everything, business leaders are going to look around. This is still a mostly capitalistic nation and businesses are required to do what is best for their stock holders. So if you can relocate to a more business friendly state (meaning less taxes). it would be negligence not to consider.

I am a teacher in NY. Love my job but hate all of the nonsense the govt has done to this state. Every day I think : Is it time I just go to Florida. But my aging parents and in laws live here. I have 12 years to retire. I will then live in Florida for 7 months and live in NY for 5 months (summer time) and be a Florida resident for the majority of the year. And if the govt continues to tax and tax, and place more guidelines on us, I will permantly move. It’s sad to see what NYC has become. NY and Ca have to look at what they are doing.

 

[Tigger's ally]

I am a teacher in NY. Love my job but hate all of the nonsense the govt has done to this state. Every day I think : Is it time I just go to Florida. But my aging parents and in laws live here. I have 12 years to retire. I will then live in Florida for 7 months and live in NY for 5 months (summer time) and be a Florida resident for the majority of the year. And if the govt continues to tax and tax, and place more guidelines on us, I will permantly move. It’s sad to see what NYC has become. NY and Ca have to look at what they are doing.

Throw Illinois in there while you are at it. There is a common theme. More people leaving these states all the time.

 

[PepperjackDragon]

Actually I have a feeling that bankruptcy was closer than any of us know. With their income reduced so dramatically at least the parks were bleeding a significant amount of money. Also consolidating their resources closest to their biggest asset makes great sense. For all we know they may be actually looking at developing the 5th gate at WDW and it certainly would require a lot of Imagineering resources.

Of course, this also helps the bottom line which as we all know has been the focus of many recent moves.

with epic universe officially under construction and how well received universals Nintendo land has been in Japan it certainly seems plausible that part of the decision is centered around pepping a major expansion-be it a new area or a new gate.

 

[mom2rtk]

with epic universe officially under construction and how well received universals Nintendo land has been in Japan it certainly seems plausible that part of the decision is centered around pepping a major expansion-be it a new area or a new gate.

A new gate? No chance.

 

[BrianL]

A new gate? No chance.

I think we're getting close to that happening, but by close I think we're still a few years out. Once they have "finished" Epcot and used some of their other extra space, I think it is inevetible. It's still going to be a little while though.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think we're getting close to that happening, but by close I think we're still a few years out. Once they have "finished" Epcot and used some of their other extra space, I think it is inevetible. It's still going to be a little while though.

I don't think Disney will want to staff another park for a very long time. And only one of the 4 parks is flushed out enough to warrant another any time in at least the next decade (or two).

 

[Kestryl]

I have been reading some takes on Twitter about how this move will benefit WDW. There’s a lot of thought that with so many Imagineers based around and going to DL, they’re generally more inspired to and find ways to improve DL. If they shift to Florida, their home park becomes WDW, and hopefully those personal improvements come with them.

(One of the snarkier comments was on how Imagineers are upset with the relocation because they’re being forced to leave the park they put all their time in and getting stuck with the one they neglected.)

I’m sensitive to moving away from a community. A few years ago I moved away from my home state, and it’s incredibly hard to be somewhere without family to help. I would love to move back. And while the Imagineering move may push out those who don’t want to leave California, it could pick up those who don’t want to leave Florida or the east coast.

 

[BrianL]

I don't think Disney will want to staff another park for a very long time. And only one of the 4 parks is flushed out enough to warrant another any time in at least the next decade (or two).

Well, I don't think it will be a decade or two, but it won't be too soon either. Obviously staffing is a huge issue right now, but we'll have to see if that lasts. I think they announce within 5 years, though it may not open for another 5 after that knowing how slow Disney is with construction, so maybe.

 

[mom2rtk]

Well, I don't think it will be a decade or two, but it won't be too soon either. Obviously staffing is a huge issue right now, but we'll have to see if that lasts. I think they announce within 5 years, though it may not open for another 5 after that knowing how slow Disney is with construction, so maybe.

Disney didn't want to staff the parks they had pre-Covid. I'm sure that's a much stronger feeling now.

 

[BrianL]

Disney didn't want to staff the parks they had pre-Covid. I'm sure that's a much stronger feeling now.

Yeah, but there's a difference in wanting to and needing to. If demand continues to increase then they will need to increase bandwidth. There is a limited amount of build space left in the current parks. We are on the trajectory for it - not too soon, but closer than it has been.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yeah, but there's a difference in wanting to and needing to. If demand continues to increase then they will need to increase bandwidth. There is a limited amount of build space left in the current parks. We are on the trajectory for it - not too soon, but closer than it has been.

We'll have to agree to meet back here in a decade and see.