Spin-off - AP vs Dual Enrollment

[tina.tina]

Don't just court your hs guidance counselor, try to make a good contact in the perspective colleges' admissions offices.

 

[Happy Snowman]

My son did both - 6 AP classes/exams and 28 hours of dual enrollment. He did dual enrollment at a regular university, not a junior college and all of his credit hours transferred to UGA. The dual enrollment hours at his university transferred all around the country - they showcased one kid who went to Harvard and used his dual enrollment credits.

As far as how universities view AP vs. dual enrollment, it just depends on the university. My DS only applied to UGA and GA Tech. UGA does not look at DE credits like they do for AP or IB credits for admission. GA Tech, on the other hand, loved kids who did dual enrollment. They gave you credit for DE just like they did for AP or IB classes when they looked at kids for admission.

Bottom line, we loved the DE experience. My son made all A's in his dual enrollment classes, so he started UGA with a 4.0 grade point average. All of his AP credits also transferred, but they do not count towards your GPA.

He just finished up his first semester at UGA and is already a junior - thanks to AP and dual enrollment credits. He went straight into his major classes his first semester because he handled all of his general/core classes thru AP and dual enrollment.

Dual enrollment also helped him because he already knew how college worked before he got to his "real" university. He knew how to use the online systems, how the university professors have a "hands off" approach, and how to manage his time when he went to UGA.

From the Harvard website

"Not eligible for credit

Unfortunately, we are unable to grant credit for certain accomplishments. Typically you will not receive Harvard credits for:

Online or distance education courses
Night or extension courses, or courses taken on a part-time basis or for less than a full academic year
Technical or vocational courses such as accounting, marketing, journalism, law, agriculture, nursing, business, communications or courses taken in military service
Dual-enrollment courses counted for credit toward a high school diploma"


AP credits helped our kids start as "juniors"--which basically means they can sign up for classes earlier and get better dorm choices. They are not going to graduate early, they are just adding extra majors.

 

[cvjw]

From the Harvard website

"Not eligible for credit

Unfortunately, we are unable to grant credit for certain accomplishments. Typically you will not receive Harvard credits for:


Dual-enrollment courses counted for credit toward a high school diploma"

Maybe the key word here is "typically". I am pretty sure that the university in question would not showcase a kid for using his dual enrollment credits at Harvard if he didn't They showcased this kid and his sister who went to a different, but equally impressive ivy league school.

Probably credits from community colleges aren't transferrable, but this is a university in the State of Georgia university system.

At open house, they provided us a brochure of all of the colleges that would accept dual enrollment credits from them. The list was long and included all of the SEC schools around us that my DS was interested in.

All of my son's dual enrollment credits would have been transferrable to Georgia Tech if he had gone there.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Maybe the key word here is "typically". I am pretty sure that the university in question would not showcase a kid for using his dual enrollment credits at Harvard if he didn't They showcased this kid and his sister who went to a different, but equally impressive ivy league school.

Probably credits from community colleges aren't transferrable, but this is a university in the State of Georgia university system.

At open house, they provided us a brochure of all of the colleges that would accept dual enrollment credits from them. The list was long and included all of the SEC schools around us that my DS was interested in.

All of my son's dual enrollment credits would have been transferrable to Georgia Tech if he had gone there.

and like I said....state schools generally take DE from your state...but outside of that, most schools, especially Ivy level do NOT take DE. They can "highlight" him all they want, doesn't mean it's real or something unusual didn't happen....we were told but every admissions person we talked to that they do not take DE credits...yes, its nice to have them on their transcripts, but the did not take the credits, period. It's great that they do in GA, but its not the case everywhere, and especially when you get into the private schools. The SEC schools are mostly state schools too.

 

[okeydokey]

and like I said....state schools generally take DE from your state...but outside of that, most schools, especially Ivy level do NOT take DE. They can "highlight" him all they want, doesn't mean it's real or something unusual didn't happen....we were told but every admissions person we talked to that they do not take DE credits...yes, its nice to have them on their transcripts, but the did not take the credits, period. It's great that they do in GA, but its not the case everywhere, and especially when you get into the private schools. The SEC schools are mostly state schools too.

Can I ask which schools your kids are attending? My kids may apply to a reach school or two, but will most likely get a good education at a Florida Preeminent University like FSU or UF. They have great programs in the areas they are interested in and will take the DE credits.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Can I ask which schools your kids are attending? My kids may apply to a reach school or two, but will most likely get a good education at a Florida Preeminent University like FSU or UF. They have great programs in the areas they are interested in and will take the DE credits.

Our kids have/are attending private schools.

If your kids want to go to your state schools, yes, take the DE classes, especially when they are huge schools. Not only does it give them potential to graduate early if they want that, registering for classes is SO much easier because you get to register ahead of time and you generally get to pick better dorms. If they want to apply to some reach schools and may end up there, AP is a better way to go. Your state schools will take the AP as well so, all around, it's a better choice.

 

[maleficent32]

and like I said....state schools generally take DE from your state...but outside of that, most schools, especially Ivy level do NOT take DE. They can "highlight" him all they want, doesn't mean it's real or something unusual didn't happen....we were told but every admissions person we talked to that they do not take DE credits...yes, its nice to have them on their transcripts, but the did not take the credits, period. It's great that they do in GA, but its not the case everywhere, and especially when you get into the private schools. The SEC schools are mostly state schools too.

There are many private schools that take DE credits.

 

[Happy Snowman]

There are many private schools that take DE credits.

and a lot that do not, especially the Ivy's which is what was asked about....

 

[tvguy]

My son's college didn't accept AP credit, but said taking the toughest courses is always a plus.

As for community college and transfering credits, I think you have to do you home work and cross your fingers that what you are told will still be the policy when it comes time to graduate.

My daughter couldn't transfer most of her classes from Cal State University Monterey Bay, to Cal State University Sacramento. I couldn't believe that classes take in the same state university system would not transfer.

 

[LisaR]

and like I said....state schools generally take DE from your state...but outside of that, most schools, especially Ivy level do NOT take DE. They can "highlight" him all they want, doesn't mean it's real or something unusual didn't happen....we were told but every admissions person we talked to that they do not take DE credits...yes, its nice to have them on their transcripts, but the did not take the credits, period. It's great that they do in GA, but its not the case everywhere, and especially when you get into the private schools. The SEC schools are mostly state schools too.

My DD applied to a ridiculous number of colleges because DH was entertaining two different job offers in two states. She applied to multiple schools in those two states plus a number of schools in our state. She did about an equal number of private and public. No Ivy schools, though. There wasn't a single university who turned down her DE credit.

 

[maleficent32]

and a lot that do not, especially the Ivy's which is what was asked about....

HHmm, You aren't talking about Ivies here which is why I posted.

None of the schools our kids looked at and very few of the schools their friends looked at would take DE for credit or placement. I agree, in most schools the AP classes are much more difficult than the CC classes. Unless you know for sure your child will go to your state schools, DE classes are not worth it.

and like I said....state schools generally take DE from your state...but outside of that, most schools, especially Ivy level do NOT take DE. They can "highlight" him all they want, doesn't mean it's real or something unusual didn't happen....we were told but every admissions person we talked to that they do not take DE credits...yes, its nice to have them on their transcripts, but the did not take the credits, period. It's great that they do in GA, but its not the case everywhere, and especially when you get into the private schools. The SEC schools are mostly state schools too.

 

[okeydokey]

There is no right answer here. It depends on too many factors to really recommend anything. I figure any course with added rigor will benefit the majority of kids in some way.

For me, our family can't stress about every minute detail. I have confidence that it will all work out in the end.

 

[Happy Snowman]

My DD applied to a ridiculous number of colleges because DH was entertaining two different job offers in two states. She applied to multiple schools in those two states plus a number of schools in our state. She did about an equal number of private and public. No Ivy schools, though. There wasn't a single university who turned down her DE credit.

She enrolled in all of those schools and they did an actual credit transfer to see what credits would and would not transfer??? Don't confuse this with acceptances, it's not the same thing. But most private schools will NOT apply DE credits from a CC that dual counted for high school credits to their actual transcript or place students in a higher level because of a CC class....

 

[Happy Snowman]

My son's college didn't accept AP credit, but said taking the toughest courses is always a plus.

As for community college and transfering credits, I think you have to do you home work and cross your fingers that what you are told will still be the policy when it comes time to graduate.

My daughter couldn't transfer most of her classes from Cal State University Monterey Bay, to Cal State University Sacramento. I couldn't believe that classes take in the same state university system would not transfer.

I believe it. The reality is, most schools do not take transfer credits, or if they do, they go into the gen ed pile and not toward your major. I know way too many kids that ended up going an extra year after transferring because of this. What people think and what is reality is very different. Every college page will say "we will look at transfer credits to see..." but you have to supply a syllabus and if it doesn't match exactly, no credit transfer. Even for the DE credits to state schools, it is only CERTAIN classes that transfer and you have to have a certain grade or better for that to transfer. It's a more complicated process than people think....

 

[Schmeck]

Older daughter took 7 AP classes, MIT accepted only one of them. She got all 5's on the ones they didn't accept, BTW, but those were her science/math ones that were part of her major. They accepted her history one, which she only got a 3 on (she skipped a question, and then realized it too late to make enough corrections).

Younger daughter got all of her AP classes accepted for credit, but wanted to take the entry classes for her major despite that. She's at a smaller, less exclusive college.

 

[Colleen27]

If she has the grades and the test scores to get in, by all means apply to those schools--their need based aid usually makes them the best deal around!! The lack of AP's in her high school will not hurt her admissions though because you can only take what you can take. It will come down to how her GC marks her app, if she took the most rigorous courses available. It's a good time to become very good friends with the GC .

She should also apply broadly and look at places like Alabama, Tufts, any any other meets need school. Alabama gives full-tuition for GPA's above a certain point and SAT and ACT above a certain point. For a while they were giving out full-rides for those but have backed down to the full tuition. Depending on income level, look into the Questbridge program too.

I bookmarked the list you (I think it was you?) posted of the meets-need schools for her to look over going forward. She's got a good idea of what she wants to study and has done enough camps/summer enrichment programs in that area for me to think she's probably aware enough of what it involves to be on the right track. For the last year or so she's been looking at schools that have a good program in her intended field that meet need and that list will be a good jumping off point for her.

For me, our family can't stress about every minute detail. I have confidence that it will all work out in the end.

I need to cultivate that attitude. I keep telling my husband that this would all be easier if we were choosing between a good choice and a bad one; instead we're choosing between a good public school and a great private school, a decision we'd thought we'd made until we got the financial aid offer from the private school. It is significant enough that we're back to weighing whether the access to tougher classes/a more academically-focused environment (and a more savvy guidance counselor) are likely to help with her college plans enough to be worth the smaller-than-expected price tag for the private school.

My daughter is a very.... I don't even know how to say it. She's a planner to the extreme, very organized, very driven and a bit of a worrier. She's so focused on her future and how to live up to the goals she's set for herself that I'm trying to do what I can to help her. But I'm usually very go-with-the-flow, so planning like this doesn't come naturally to me. My own college career is a great example: I decided in Aug. to finish my bachelors and started classes in Sept. (some people get a convertible or have an affair - my midlife crisis is the journalism degree I've always wanted! ).

 

[Happy Snowman]

I'm trying to remember what the list was that showed how much the typical award package was at I think every college across the country. You can sort the list but % of students getting various awards, state, etc. Maybe when my brain wakes up more . Anyway, there are a lot of schools that don't make that "meets need" list that come very close, 90-99% that are worth a look. She would also do well to check the Collegeboards and search by male/female ratio an apply heavily to those schools with fewer females. Notre Dame hits both "meets need" and "we want more females" so she should look there...she's engineering right???

I agree, people do make more out of this process than it really is. Find the school where she fits the best and she will be happy. Also know that most college students change their major at least once so if she picks a school because of X major and not because it's the right place for her to be overall, it gets hard for some to stay and you end up doing this all over again .

 

[Colleen27]

She would also do well to check the Collegeboards and search by male/female ratio an apply heavily to those schools with fewer females. Notre Dame hits both "meets need" and "we want more females" so she should look there...she's engineering right???

Not engineering, biology. She wants to focus on aquatic/marine bio or ecology/environmental science, but I want her to choose a good all-around school in case she does change her mind as she gets into the college-level work. Some of the schools that come up as the best for marine bio aren't schools a strong student would choose for any other program, which would make it much harder to head in a new direction later.

Notre Dame is already one of her top choice schools and the reason she discovered the idea of "meets need" schools in the first place. It is far enough from home that she feels like she'd be on her own, but her godmother lives relatively close to South Bend and I think she likes that 'safety net'. Plus we've been to the campus when visiting her godmother and she loves it, and several alumni and staff at the (Catholic) school she attends now are alumni so she's heard a lot about the university as a whole. On the advice of one of those alumni ("visit early and often" - we talked about this on that other thread too, right?), we're going on our first official campus visit/tour this summer to learn more.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Not engineering, biology. She wants to focus on aquatic/marine bio or ecology/environmental science, but I want her to choose a good all-around school in case she does change her mind as she gets into the college-level work. Some of the schools that come up as the best for marine bio aren't schools a strong student would choose for any other program, which would make it much harder to head in a new direction later.

Notre Dame is already one of her top choice schools and the reason she discovered the idea of "meets need" schools in the first place. It is far enough from home that she feels like she'd be on her own, but her godmother lives relatively close to South Bend and I think she likes that 'safety net'. Plus we've been to the campus when visiting her godmother and she loves it, and several alumni and staff at the (Catholic) school she attends now are alumni so she's heard a lot about the university as a whole. On the advice of one of those alumni ("visit early and often" - we talked about this on that other thread too, right?), we're going on our first official campus visit/tour this summer to learn more.

Yes, ND is all about showing the love...and class rank Being female will help.

Has she looked at any schools in Montana? I have a few friends with kids that are studying environmental science at Mizzoula (which ever Montana state school that is) and love it out there. Lewis and Clark in Portland also has a good program. Starting to get farther from home but worth looking into. U of Alabama has a pretty strong marine biology program too and they like high state/out of state students. The whole southern Sorority thing there might not be to her liking though. For good safety, safety school, Mount Mercy in Iowa should get a look. They have a very strong field biology department.

 

[cabanafrau]

Not engineering, biology. She wants to focus on aquatic/marine bio or ecology/environmental science, but I want her to choose a good all-around school in case she does change her mind as she gets into the college-level work. Some of the schools that come up as the best for marine bio aren't schools a strong student would choose for any other program, which would make it much harder to head in a new direction later.

Notre Dame is already one of her top choice schools and the reason she discovered the idea of "meets need" schools in the first place. It is far enough from home that she feels like she'd be on her own, but her godmother lives relatively close to South Bend and I think she likes that 'safety net'. Plus we've been to the campus when visiting her godmother and she loves it, and several alumni and staff at the (Catholic) school she attends now are alumni so she's heard a lot about the university as a whole. On the advice of one of those alumni ("visit early and often" - we talked about this on that other thread too, right?), we're going on our first official campus visit/tour this summer to learn more.

Your concern about AP v. DE is as it relates to acceptance, not credit transfers, correct? I don't know about biology in particular, but I do know in relation to other science and technology fields that being granted those undergraduate credits may not be all it's cracked up to be. DD walked away from a pile of AP credits because she was advised on several fronts that those same budget and time friendly credits at the undergrad level may come back and bite you in the budget and schedule of the grad school years.

She's now watched friends scrambling to make grad school decisions they never dreamed would be necessary when great grad school offers come in, all requiring the taking of those undergrad credits, on their own dime & at grad school rates no less, in order to receive their graduate degree. They're also in the unpleasant position of figuring out how to squeeze those classes into a schedule already jam packed with grad classes and research hours.

ND will very likely be quite understanding of your daughter's curriculum shortcomings as they have a very good relationship with the Catholic high school system. If she can show a solid academic performance background and perform well on the testing I think they will strongly factor in whatever efforts she made to challenge herself.