Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[Krandor]

Is there anything you can point to on the ride that’s racist? I don’t remember Uncle Remus in the ride.

If Disney wants to change it, then make it better.

The ride was carreful not to use any racist element but the IP it is based on is still a problem and unfortunatly the two can't be sepaated.

 

[MegaraWink]

I hope they give the bears a nice refurb and some new music. It is showing its age. And they have plenty of additional animatronics they can use if they need them, or if they want to add more bears, since they had two Country Bear theaters at Disneyland. Plus when they shortened the show, it really didn't improve it...its just a few minutes shorter. They need to give Buff, Max and Melvin more to do, since part of shortening the show was removing some of their slightly un-PC dialog.

I have seen it. The movie was regarded as racist even during its time. That’s why Disney tucked it away, removed it from Disney+, etc. Even the music has deeply racist roots. I studied this music in one of my PhD courses and it was eye opening.

To the pure, all things are pure. But I'm not anti-racist and I don't agree with anti-racist thought; just seems to propogate more racism.

 

[Mit88]

Yes same. I 100% understand the need for the change and support it, but I am worried that Disney won’t do it right. I hope it goes without saying that those worries don’t trump the need to change it.

My worry is the exact same. I have faith in the two imagineers heading the project. But we all know how much Chapek loves to slash budget’s. And the further we get from the announcement the better the chance we see this project get changed. And if they’re not even starting construction until 2022? That scares me

 

[SaintsManiac]

I’d take Soarin’ 2.0, wonky Eiffel Tower and all, if they had just kept Test Track an actual Test Track .

Why does Epcot house so many bad refurbs? Test Track, Journey into Imagination, Spaceship Earth, and Soarin’. I know some people would include FEA in that too. And Mission Space lol. Almost everything they’ve touched in that park.

Epcot was about to get the love and boom! Pandemic! The cast off will remain in 4th place a bit longer.

 

[mmackeymouse]

Does modifying a 30-year-old ride themed to a 75-year-old racist movie take away from the park's "charm" or "character"? If so, why? How? Do we just never want the parks to change? Or are we okay with certain changes but not this one? To me it's all a balance.

So, this is off-topic, unrelated, but I will bring it back around .

My parents live in a 120 year old home that has been in my family since it was built. It will be my home eventually, so I do think it's fair that I have at least SOME say in changes made to the house because those changes will be forever...or a long time at least.

Now, for me, and this may be shocking to some of you who have been reading my comments (sarc), love the old. The old cabinets, the old woodwork, the old wallpaper. I want to keep as much original about the house as I can. I don't care for change (clearly)

Now, every other year or so, my parents get the itch to re-do something. And, usually, what this ends up as is covering up or removing old, original details...the ones I love with all my heart. And, I beg them not to paint the trim. And I beg them not to take an old window out. But, inevitably they do. And as always, it looks great. But, still deep in my heart, I wish I still had the original stuff.

The list of untouched things have become increasingly slim. And, I ask..."Isn't there ANYTHING you can save of the original house? Anything sacred? Anything untouchable?" And for them, the answer is no. For me, I would save all of it. But, if I can't save all of it, I would at least want to save SOME of it.

So, I am not comparing this to Splash Mountain directly. But, what I am trying to say is....this isn't Monsters Inc Laugh Floor. This isn't Aladdin's Flying Carpets. This is a major, major attraction. So, if this one is on the table, if this one isn't "untouchable," doesn't that essentially mean that all of it is on the table?

I say this to answer your question about do we never want the parks to change? And, for the people like me, who are change-averse....I don't think it's the change in and of itself. I think we, and I am speaking for myself, are okay with changes. But...we crave at least some sort of stability. We want to know there is at least SOME attractions/restaurants/shops/landmarks that are going to stay the way they are forever. But, when a biggie like Splash Mountain happens, it makes us realize nothing is safe. Everything is on the table. And, those things we really, REALLY love...Main Street, the Castle, PeopleMover, Haunted Mansion. I would hope that they are safe, but...when one big thing falls, who is to say others won't either?

So, for me, it's a lot less about Splash Mountain. And more about what it may imply about the future of the park and resort as a whole. Of course, I know Walt didn't want WDW to be a museum, and he wanted things to constantly progress....but I'd like to believe that the Marcelline side of him would also have certain things that were not to be touched. Certain things that were intrinsically crucial to the Disney experience.

 

[OppR2nist]

My conspiracy brain (do understand, I'm not really a conspiracy theorist) tells me that the petition and the concept art leak were both an intentional and calculated move by Disney. It seems funny to me that they were working on this, there was a leak, then a petition, then they announced that they were already working on it after hearing enough of a positive response. I personally think it's a great move. It hits a lot of buttons:

- Get Tiana into the parks? Check.
- Push out elements that celebrate some of Disney's more questionable past ventures? Big Check.
- Re-theme a ride to make it more relevent to modern guests? Check.
- etc.

The downsides? Not many:

- Nostalgia. I get it. People love the ride in its current form. Hopefully that means that people are already primed to like it, since it will be more or less the same ride, only with an arguably better theme. The only thing in this world that never changes is the fact that things will change.
- New Orleans isn't a great fit for Frontierland. OK, that's valid, but I would put out there that perhaps Caribbean pirates, magic carpets, and a cruise through the jungle aren't geographically close and that's never been a problem.

All that being said, I just want to circle back to my original point that the whole hullabaloo over changing the ride came from Disney itself in a viral marketing move that would gauge the response moving forward, as they've had a spotty history with re-themes. (I'm looking at YOU, Tiki Room Under New Management!)

 

[MegaraWink]

Great point @mmackeymouse. This is a worrying change. I don't think the reasons for changing it are very solid either, so it doesn't bode well for future classics.

 

[cjlong88]

To the pure, all things are pure. But I'm not anti-racist and I don't agree with anti-racist thought; just seems to propogate more racism.

I highly recommend reading “How to be Antiracist” by Ibram X. Kendi.

He clearly articulates what it means to be anti racist, and how it’s clearly different from non-racist. I will admit, I didn’t know what anti-racist actually meant or stood for until I read the literature of those who know better than me. Im sure my viewpoints will continue to evolve and change as I digest and take in new information.

 

[MegaraWink]

I highly recommend reading “How to be Antiracist” by Ibram X. Kendi.

Ge clearly articulates what it means to be anti racist, and how it’s clearly different from non-racist. I will admit, I didn’t know what anti-racist actually meant or stood for until I read the literature of those who know better than me.

I don't agree with it because I'm familiar with it. Benjamin Boyce is a journalist I dig, on YouTube, who makes good points against it.

 

[BrianL]

The ride was carreful not to use any racist element but the IP it is based on is still a problem and unfortunatly the two can't be sepaated.

Just an honest question though - could it ever actually be seperated? I don't think most people even know about those connections. At what point is something its own thing? This is just an honest line of thought becuase almost anything can be linked to something unsavory.

 

[BrianL]

- New Orleans isn't a great fit for Frontierland. OK, that's valid, but I would put out there that perhaps Caribbean pirates, magic carpets, and a cruise through the jungle aren't geographically close and that's never been a problem.

I've addressed this a few times, but I think it's that Adventureland has different internal rules than Frontierland and other areas. I do think they can make it work, but they will need to be thoughtful about it as they were when they originally put in Splash.

 

[cjlong88]

I don't agree with it because I'm familiar with it. Benjamin Boyce is a journalist I dig, on YouTube, who makes good points against it.

I definitely don’t subscribe to Boyce’s stance or arguments. But I’m glad you have taken time to do research both sides of the argument. This is exactly what grad school taught me to do.

 

[YesterDark]

WDWMagic has had a poll up since yesterday asking "Do you agree with the decision to re-theme Splash Mountain?" as of this moment 33% are stating yes and 67% are stating no out of 510 people who responded to the poll.

Disney Fanatics mostly like to hold on to nostalgia and memories with an Iron Fist. It doesn't matter what it is; a ride, a sidewalk, a menu item, an ice cream flavor whatever. It's their default stance.

Disney does an aaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing job triggering memories and nostalgia for generations of families (obviously) but this is probably the largest "drawback" to that, is when they need to change/update something there will always be a bit of a response to it.

 

[ThornXBL]

Just an honest question though - could it ever actually be seperated? I don't think most people even know about those connections. At what point is something its own thing? This is just an honest line of thought becuase almost anything can be linked to something unsavory.

I don't expect Disney to ever do this, but I think it would help if they did a new set of Br'er Rabbit animation shorts in a modern way that respects their African folklore roots (There have been a few other recent modern re-tellings of these tales). Give those characters a better foundational context than only coming from a very problematic old film.

 

[MegaraWink]

I definitely don’t subscribe to Boyce’s stance or arguments. But I’m glad you have taken time to do research both sides of the argument. This is exactly what grad school taught me to do.

Yeah I went to grad school too, but tbh I think I learned that more in my undergrad.

 

[mmackeymouse]

Disney Fanatics mostly like to hold on to nostalgia and memories with an Iron Fist. It doesn't matter what it is; a ride, a sidewalk, a menu item, an ice cream flavor whatever. It's their default stance.

Disney does an aaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing job triggering memories and nostalgia for generations of families (obviously) but this is probably the largest "drawback" to that, is when they need to change/update something there will always be a bit of a response to it.

My sister and I were talking about this the other day...not about Splash, but about the whole planning process.

YOU (Disney) are the ones who made us planners. And now you are telling us not to plan. That we can't plan. YOU are the one that made us this way. You did this.

This is very much the same thing you are referring to. YOU are the one that gave us a sense of nostalgia, of time-gone-by, of love for things of old. Remember the very first words you see as you enter the Magic Kingdom starts with "Here you leave today, and enter the world of yesterday..." You did this to us, Disney. You fostered our nostalgic, sentimental spirit. And now here we are.

 

[Mit88]

Disney Fanatics mostly like to hold on to nostalgia and memories with an Iron Fist. It doesn't matter what it is; a ride, a sidewalk, a menu item, an ice cream flavor whatever. It's their default stance.

Disney does an aaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing job triggering memories and nostalgia for generations of families (obviously) but this is probably the largest "drawback" to that, is when they need to change/update something there will always be a bit of a response to it.

I remember a better time when the sidewalk’s at Magic Kingdom were a slightly brighter shade of red. I’ll never forgive them for changing that

 

[BrianL]

I don't expect Disney to ever do this, but I think it would help if they did a new set of Br'er Rabbit animation shorts in a modern way that respects their African folklore roots (There have been a few other recent modern re-tellings of these tales). Give those characters a better foundational context than only coming from a very problematic old film.

Yes, I've been calling for this for a while now. Get some great African American actors involved and do a very cool, culturally appropriate version of it. I don't expect to see it either, but it's long been something I would like.

 

[Helvetica]

I’m not disagreeing that this needed to be done. But if you look at the people opposed to the ride change, its not that people want a ride that is based on a racist IP to stick around, they’re upset because of the ride itself being changed. People dont like change, especially when it impacts their memories from childhood. Every ride that has closed to become something new has had people argue that it just needed to be updated, not re-themed. This is all just initial reaction. Once construction actually begins, more people will be fine with the change. They’re just going through the stages of grief right now, and they havent yet gotten to acceptance

I understand that people don't like change, especially at Disney World. I think once people get past the grieving stage that they'll realize that there's still time to experience the attraction before it changes and maybe it will give them an excuse to go check out Tokyo Disneyland. I also think more people will be excited about it once they see whatever they come up with and the kids growing up with the new ride won't care one way or another. They'll just see a fun ride with a Disney Princess.

Disney World is not an museum, it's a theme park and rides change over time. Even popular attractions have to change. If rides don't change and everything stays the same, I think it would get pretty boring.

Personally, I do believe this was primarily a financial decision. Disney is in the business of making money and the biggest problem is that the current property just isn't very marketable. Personally, I don't remember the last time I saw someone in the gift shop actually buy something. While we don't know the ride's maintenance schedule, I think it's obvious that it was due for a major refurbishment, which would mean that Disney was going to have to make a major capital investment in the tune of millions of dollars no matter what. The ride would no more money after such a major investment if they just kept it the same, which is a problem if you're looking to recoup that investment.

I think they looked at the success of Frozen Ever After and said, hey, that ride is super profitable now after we added Princesses. Let's do that to this other log flume that also needs refurbishment. Maybe we can do a desert party and sell a bunch of Princess stuff.

 

[afan]

I hope they give the bears a nice refurb and some new music. It is showing its age. And they have plenty of additional animatronics they can use if they need them, or if they want to add more bears, since they had two Country Bear theaters at Disneyland. Plus when they shortened the show, it really didn't improve it...its just a few minutes shorter. They need to give Buff, Max and Melvin more to do, since part of shortening the show was removing some of their slightly un-PC dialog.

As long as it stays and they keep all the guys that turn me on turn me down. But if it's going to go at least give me enough time to see it one more time. I will fly from seattle for one park day just for it but I also see the issues some have with it.

Yeah, and I'm not suggesting they shouldn't change Peter Pan. I'm just saying that what's, hm, interesting about the Splash reskin is that even cutting out the problematic parts isn't enough.

Peter Pan is a racist little boy (well, demigod). I was rereading the book today and it's right there.

If you look at the original fairytales a lot of the movies are based off they are problematic. As is the real story of Pocahontas. So if we're going to look at the original source material rather than the Disney version they'll be a lot more that have issues. It's a slippery slope especially when some are starting to have more issues with the original princesses and how they needed a prince to save them etc.