Spontaneous Trip, Busy time, MB, FP+ Incredible!!

[kaybird]

LoL! I'm leaving in 31 days during a busy weekend (Princess Half Marathon Weekend) and I just went on and totally re-did my FP+ reservations and got everything I wanted. No panicking to be there at midnight.

I'm now doing rope drop at one park, FP+ in the afternoon at the second park. I'm feeling really, really good about my plans and they're breaking down really well and it's nice to know on the morning I'm doing MK, I have Soarin FP's before a Teppan Edo dinner. So that day I know I'm going to be able to hit Mermaid, Pan, etc, but still be able to FP the big rides later in the day. And you know, it's really nice to know that I'll be able to ride Soarin twice for sure without having to tear across the planet to get there or stare at my apps and count down how many hours I have left to rush over and get a FP. Last trip I was there for 7 days, with the paper passes, we did Soarin once and even then, it was the last day and we had to hop over to get the pass and then go to the park we were actually going to be at for the day.

When I went in November, I really planned on relying on paper passes and only made the FP+ reservations because I felt I had to (and I did it the night before our first day at the park and I randomly picked times and rides and changed them on-the-fly). I fully expected to hate it and I have said how much I hate the FP+ idea. But on the trip, you know, I'll say it... It worked really well.

Like I said before, we only had a half day at MK and could spend no morning at EPCOT except for the day after the race (which ended at 3am... A rope drop there would have sucked), but because of FP+, on our half day at MK, getting there at RD, we did Pooh, Mermaid twice, Small World, Mansion, Pirates, Space, Splash, and we had passes for Thunder but didn't go... Peter was closed, but we could have done that too, no problem. And it was Saturday AM on a 8-9 crowd day. In the park minutes after rope drop (we'd just missed the ceremony), out by 1:30p. And even though we didn't hit EPCOT on the Sunday until after 10am after waking up, checking out of our hotel, and busing over, we were able to do Soarin despite the paper passes being valid after we'd have hit our ME pickup time.

This next trip will be our first paper pass free trip and yes, I'm nervous... It's hard to think of a trip without a system we've relied heavily on for 5 years and 6 trips... But you know, I'm feeling good about it. I'm really happy with the freedom FP+ is giving me. It's not perfect, no... I wish I could FP+ just one more ride, I really wish I could FP+ multiple parks... But I think I can make this work for me as well or better than just the paper passes.

And go back through my posts, I was a FP+ hater. Hardcore. And while I'm not a sell-the-farm believer, my torch and pitchfork are still safely stowed in my barn. I'm feeling good, confident, though prepared for hiccups.

Thanks for the input! I'll be there for the Cinderella 5K too!!! All my FP+ in place, and even a FP for BOG on run day!!! Yippee Skippeee!!!

 

[Angel Ariel]

Liberty Square has been reported as empty or with small waits while Fantasyland's goes tons of people deep. Frontierland at opening has been manageable with short waits.

I have seen pictures of long lines there too...but at opening I can see it being shorter than others, yes. I wasn't aware we were only discussing at opening, though.

Again, I'm going to gloss over the condescending part of the post (and yes, statements like "disney is not a charity" are condescending.) You analyze my posts and take away from it that I want an "economy vacation," and to be totally frank "economy" is not a word that crosses my mind when I think about going to Disney.

I'm OK with resort differences...because they are *resort* differences. Previously, whatever perks a Disney Deluxe Resort guest got did not *negatively* affect my experience in the parks. Even with the +10 ADRs that onsite guests get, I've never completely missed out on a restaurant we've wanted to eat at. People riding on Magical Express doesn't affect my transportation to the airport in anyway. Even EMH doesn't have to negatively affect an offsiter's trip (as they can choose to go to a park without it and likely experience less crowds at that park than they would at the EMH park).

The prebooking with FP+ does have a negative impact on the experience of offsite guests. Yes, we still have access to the system - but now, instead of having equal access to all FPs when the park opens, offsite guests are basically getting leftovers. This was demonstrated by more than one report of an offsite guest getting to MK at 10am and there not being headliner FP+s available until after 5. That did NOT happen in MK with legacy FP. We were there over spring break last year and had FPs for everything available well into the afternoon/early evening (if anything ran out at all). How is that not lessening the experience of the offsite guest?

To complain the system is broken because you as a SoG have to stand in line and have a less optimal pick of FP+ times while resort guests get more would be like me complaining that because I didn't choose to pay for Poly, that I can't take a monorail at Pop. It's not the experience I paid for.

Paying for a resort doesn't get you admission to any of the parks. You could stay at a deluxe resort however long you want, and you're not getting into the parks without a ticket. The ticket price, IMO, is what should be the determining factor in experiencing rides - and we all pay the *same* admission price. We should all have the same opportunity to have the same access to those rides.

Planning a Disney vacation doesn't entitle you to the best Disney has to offer.

I am confused as to where I said it did? All I'm saying is that the park admission I pay the *same* amount for as any onsite guest should get me the *same* access to the rides. But that's being entitled, apparently?

The portion of this new FP system that most resembles the old system, walk in to the park, go to a ride, get a FP, come back later, ride the ride... That still exists, and it's open to everybody. In fact, its upgraded from picking one ride and then waiting 2ish hours to grab another one, to being able to pick 3 in one whole swoop from one stop at one location... A setup decidedly better than the old process of getting one at at time. That portion is entirely free and open to everybody.

To say it's an upgrade to go from being able to get 5-6 FPs in a day to 3? Really? Yes the ability to get them in one place is an upgrade. The limitations are not.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I was responding specifically to the idea of whether or not it's worth it to spend $60 less on a room offsite...to point out that, for many, it's not just $60. If $60 were the only difference, would I stay onsite? Probably. But it's not just $60. We don't care about DDP or DME...and at shades we get EMH.

When you compare Value to offsite, the price difference is anywhere from $40 and up. When you compare laterally, even a step up, the difference is, what, $100 a night? Offsite hotels that are that price and up, people will be staying onsite.

But base price at Disney are those Values. So when you scale down to cheapest rooms at Disney vs. comparable rooms offsite, the difference isn't that huge.

So then the questions are Is 3 FP+ worth being cramped into a value resort where DH and I can barely move when there's a PnP in the room? (My brother and SIL stayed at All Star Sports in March, we were in their room for a bit). Is 3 FP+ worth my daughter being cranky all week because she's on top of us in the hotel room and can barely sleep? Is 3 FP+ worth DH and I not being able to relax at the end of the night/get ready for the next day without waking DD? The rooms at shades are large enough to give us this freedom. The sports room we were in was most definitely not. Given how much longer it will take to get to MK from the value resorts, will we even be able to take advantage of morning EMH there, with DD's schedule? (as evening EMH is already not an option). (and yes, MK is the most important park for EMH for us).

So again, it comes down to choice. You're choosing value for room quality at the sacrifice of on-site amenities. And that's fine, nothing wrong with that. Not even implying there is.

For us, we don't mind us with the pack-n-play at Pop. We still have enough space, privacy, and even if we didn't, it's a compromise we're happy to make in exchange for the perks of being on-site and a DDP. That's us. If that doesn't work for everybody, and I'm not saying it would, that may mean making a choice like you room for a room that's larger and of a better value and location, and cutting the amenities. It's all part of the choices we make on our vacations.

But when we make that choice on cutting amenities, that doesn't mean Disney is taking away from people, it means you've made the choice, for whatever reason, to not pay for it. So for you, the price similarities between SoG and a Value isn't worth it for you, or the price upgrade to stay at a comparable Deluxe isn't worth it. That's fine, and that's totally OK. But that's Disney not taking away something (in this case FP+) from people can't afford it. That's somebody, you, me, whomever, not getting a perk they paid for. Just like when I stay at Pop, they're not taking away the monorail, I'm not paying for a location that has it. When you stay at SoG, they're not taking away the FP+, you're not paying for a hotel that offers 60 day FP+ planning that gives it. You'll have to walk in to the park to get your FPs, just like you always have.

For us, we know what we'll pay for. We'll get an inexpensive room at Pop to free up money to buy the DDP, to get an extra day or two tacked onto the vacation, to be able to do two or three trips a year instead of one as opposed to a shorter stay at a Mod, or one yearly trip to a Deluxe. We could save even further by staying at an All-Star, but my time is worth paying for that little bump to Pop because we'd sooner set our hair on fire than stay at an All-Star because we hate the theme, hate the rooms, hate the location, despite being able to afford more trips or the DDP. We know we're not getting monorails, we are getting crowded buses, no sit-down, etc. It's fine, we didn't pay for it. My parents, they'll go once a year, or once every-other-year, but they'll do the big Deluxe, Polynesian, castle-view, highest DDP, because when they go, they only want the full Disney experience. They pay out the nose for it, they take their $14,000 vacation, buy 5 different Dooney's, eat at Vicki and Alberts, and they are pleased as punch. You expressed that rooms are important to you as are price and location, and SoG gives you a great value and that's what you choose. The trade off is no DME, no DDP, and no FP+ booking. You didn't pay for a hotel with those perks, so you don't get them. Just like I don't pay for a monorail hotel and I don't get it.

There's nothing wrong with that. The only time it becomes a little "really?" is when one pays for the Value and complain about not getting the Deluxe experience. Which is what the offsite complaints about no pre-FP+ booking and waiting for kiosks sounds like... You didn't pay for the perk, so why should you get it? Not getting what others are getting that they paid for... I mean, you shouldn't. Just use the system as is very closely similar to what you had before, that, this time last year, was fine and dandy.

There's no point, IMO, to spending thousands on a vacation if certain things are going to make the vacation less flexible/enjoyable...and an overtired toddler is definitely at the top of my "not enjoyable" list.

Same for me, I make choices that are best for my family. I'd expect everybody does. I'm sure Disney expects people will.

With the FP system, we didn't have to make those choices because the experience *in the parks, during regular park hours* was equal for everyone. Everyone had the same opportunity to get FPs, regardless of where they slept.

IMO, we all pay the same for park admission and we should all have the same access to the attractions that admission pays for.

You do have the same access that everybody with an admission pays for. None of them are off limits. And the same favoritism that existed before with FP's, the better picks with the better times, more options on rides. In fact, you're better off as you're holding 3 at one time, not 1. The only difference is that exists is that those who pay to stay in Disney's bubble, they get to pick earlier. That's the perk they get because they pay for it right now. If someone wants the same perk, they have the means available to do so. They just have to stay at a hotel.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Thanks for the input! I'll be there for the Cinderella 5K too!!! All my FP+ in place, and even a FP for BOG on run day!!! Yippee Skippeee!!!

I wasn't picked for BOG FP, but I did get BOG dinner reservations the night before Princess and the Monday after.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You do have the same access that everybody with an admission pays for. None of them are off limits. And the same favoritism that existed before with FP's, the better picks with the better times, more options on rides. In fact, you're better off as you're holding 3 at one time, not 1. The only difference is that exists is that those who pay to stay in Disney's bubble, they get to pick earlier. That's the perk they get because they pay for it right now. If someone wants the same perk, they have the means available to do so. They just have to stay at a hotel.

This is where we are fundamentally disagreeing, and think that's the issue we're having in our communication with each other. Arriving at the park an hour after opening and finding FP+ not available until evening (if at all) is not having the same access to those rides as someone who booked their FP+ 60 days beforehand. MK did not have this problem before FP+.

If you consider it to be the same, that's your choice.

I understood your points, but the continued condescending language and basically insinuating that offsite guests who feel like they are getting less now are "entitled" is telling me that we will not come to any common ground, so at this point I don't see a reason to continue beating a dead horse.

 

[patty57]

This is where we are fundamentally disagreeing, and think that's the issue we're having in our communication with each other. Arriving at the park an hour after opening and finding FP+ not available until evening (if at all) is not having the same access to those rides as someone who booked their FP+ 60 days beforehand. MK did not have this problem before FP+.

If you consider it to be the same, that's your choice.

I understand what you're saying, and how you feel about this, but it looks like this is the way it's going to be. I love the Swan/Dolphin, and would rather stay there than the other Epcot resorts. Why? Beautiful resort and it saves me a lot of money. Will I stay there without the ability to prebook FP+? Nope. Will offsite guests ever be able to book ahead? Maybe...maybe not. We just don't know. For now, there is a very real benefit to staying at WDW resorts, and if you want that benefit, we all may need to move onsite.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I understand what you're saying, and how you feel about this, but it looks like this is the way it's going to be. I love the Swan/Dolphin, and would rather stay there than the other Epcot resorts. Why? Beautiful resort and it saves me a lot of money. Will I stay there without the ability to prebook FP+? Nope. Will offsite guests ever be able to book ahead? Maybe...maybe not. We just don't know. For now, there is a very real benefit to staying at WDW resorts, and if you want that benefit, we all may need to move onsite.

I don't disagree..that's why, if we leave Dd with grandparents, we are considering poly in November for a rundisney weekend.

I just think it's a bit disingenuous to say that there is no change to the offsite guest experience, and I reacted more to that than I should have.

 

[patty57]

I don't disagree..that's why, if we leave Dd with grandparents, we are considering poly in November for a rundisney weekend.

I just think it's a bit disingenuous to say that there is no change to the offsite guest experience, and I reacted more to that than I should have.

Oh, there definitely is a change for the offsite guest, although I wouldn't mind if I never used one of the tragic bands unless I was sure it would work.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I have seen pictures of long lines there too...but at opening I can see it being shorter than others, yes. I wasn't aware we were only discussing at opening, though.

Even outside of opening, the lines there are nothing for most of the day. There's a bump after the parades get out, but really, it's no real wait at all.

Again, I'm going to gloss over the condescending part of the post (and yes, statements like "disney is not a charity" are condescending.) You analyze my posts and take away from it that I want an "economy vacation," and to be totally frank "economy" is not a word that crosses my mind when I think about going to Disney.

Saying Disney isn't a charity isn't condescending, it's just explaining that the idea that one is entitled to something for being there isn't the case... It's not a business, their goal isn't go give more for less, it's to give more for more.

And while economy may not be what crosses your mind when you plan, I'm discussing the original idea of evaluating what one's time is worth to determine if the extra cost of staying onsite was worth the savings to your time, and your statement that the $2,000 difference from the Deluxe vs the Value experience wasn't worth it because you would rather pay a smaller amount for bigger rooms offsite-ish, as opposed to the same price for smaller rooms onsite and what you said was 3x more for the rooms of compatible type that you enjoy at SoG at the onsite Deluxes.

So maybe economy isn't on your forefront when you plan and you don't think about money when you plan. The original point I was making, that you replied to, was for people weighing out such things. People who say the price difference between offsite vs onsite drives them offsite, but are unhappy with the loss of perks as a result.

I'm OK with resort differences...because they are *resort* differences. Previously, whatever perks a Disney Deluxe Resort guest got did not *negatively* affect my experience in the parks. Even with the +10 ADRs that onsite guests get, I've never completely missed out on a restaurant we've wanted to eat at. People riding on Magical Express doesn't affect my transportation to the airport in anyway. Even EMH doesn't have to negatively affect an offsiter's trip (as they can choose to go to a park without it and likely experience less crowds at that park than they would at the EMH park).

Ok, so before you were willing to give up the ADRs, the DDP, the ME, and EMH, but now with the FP+ perk, it's harder to give up. I understand that. I think I can save money with a DVC, or at least get better rooms of the same value, but the reason I don't pull the trigger is because I hate the idea of paying for the DDP, which I've gotten for free almost always. I feel like the perk I'd lose by making that choice is bigger than the gains I'd get by switching.

So if the compromises are a little harder to swallow, then it's time to re-evaluate, is the priority big room at a good value, or is it OK to take a smaller room and get the perk? Or maybe are you OK with paying that extra for the similar on-site experience? This is normal vacation stuff, this isn't Disney taking something away from anybody, it's Disney giving a new perk and it's available only to onsite guests for the time being. It's now something they want you to think about when you go to book your hotel. Of course they want you to stay onsite, and I'm sure they're glad you'll do it now, but the core at is you deciding what perks you do and don't want to pay for.

Disney has always structured it so that people who stay in their bubble are given more. This is just another more.

The prebooking with FP+ does have a negative impact on the experience of offsite guests. Yes, we still have access to the system - but now, instead of having equal access to all FPs when the park opens, offsite guests are basically getting leftovers. This was demonstrated by more than one report of an offsite guest getting to MK at 10am and there not being headliner FP+s available until after 5. That did NOT happen in MK with legacy FP. We were there over spring break last year and had FPs for everything available well into the afternoon/early evening (if anything ran out at all). How is that not lessening the experience of the offsite guest?

When I did my FP+ reservations, I did them the day before I went into the park. Literally at 10pm at night when I was going to be there at 10am the next day. I was able to schedule Soarin more than once, Space, Peter, and Thunder Mountain. When I arrived at AK 3 hours earlier than I had planned at 11am instead of 1pm, I bumped my Safari from 2pm to 11:15 and literally walked from my bus to the FP+ line. When we were in line, I changed my reservation for EE to 12:30 and switched my Kali for Dinosaur at 1:45. I went in one, easy flow from the Safari to EE to Dinosaur without having to zig over to get a FP for Everest then zag back to the standby for the Safari, then walk past EE for Dinosaur's FP then back to EE to ride. We ended up being done with all we wanted to do at AK by the time we thought we were arriving, and we even squeezed in "Tough to Be a Bug" as 15 minute wait.

That night, I realized that maybe there was something to the FP+ system, so I rescheduled my crummy MK FP's for the next day to the mountains, Space, Splash, and Thunder. I got every one of them but Space before noon, Space was at 3pm. When we got the MK the next day, while we were walking to FL, I popped out my phone and rescheduled Space to 11am. We did Ariel, Pooh, Small World, HM, Pirates, Space, and Splash, had lunch, skipped Thunder because I was ill, and were back at our hotel for our pre-race nap at 2pm. And MK was slammed. The wait for Pirates as we walked to redeem our at Splash was spilling out into the main walkway and was over 45 minutes. Splash was 90 minutes. Big Thunder was longer. Yet that morning, when we got there, we booked the exact time we wanted for Space.

The same thing happened the next day at EPCOT. We needed to ride Soarin before we left at 2pmish, we picked our FP time to be before noon. That was as I was sitting in a corral for Wine and Dine.

At no point were we getting leftovers. We had the pick of absolutely everything we wanted at the time we wanted. My sister who went over Thanksgiving when all resorts had FP+ had the same, exact experience. Changing ride times on her phone minutes before she wanted to ride. She had problems, there were FP+ people EVERYWHERE who fixed it. Heck, mine got messed up and on EE they pushed a button, fixed it, and less than 20 seconds of waiting later, it was done.

I was a die-hard hater of the FP+, but after using it, bopping around, picking and choosing, having almost every time I needed and wanted... The only way I was able to tour the park like I did was because of FP+. I fully expected to not get anything, but I had my pick of the rides, even within the same hour I ended up riding them. And it wasn't a slow weekend, it was RD weekend.

Paying for a resort doesn't get you admission to any of the parks. You could stay at a deluxe resort however long you want, and you're not getting into the parks without a ticket. The ticket price, IMO, is what should be the determining factor in experiencing rides - and we all pay the *same* admission price. We should all have the same opportunity to have the same access to those rides.

We don't all pay the same admission price... People who stay longer pay less, people who don't buy them ahead of time pay more, people who buy them without a hotel package pay more. People who go at one time of year vs another time of year pay more or less. The week I'm going, major rides will be down. Two weeks later, when they're up and running, people are paying the same price as me despite my having less.

I am confused as to where I said it did? All I'm saying is that the park admission I pay the *same* amount for as any onsite guest should get me the *same* access to the rides. But that's being entitled, apparently?

You don't pay the same amount as onsite guests for your park tickets vs resort guests. You pay more. When you book through a vacation package, you pay less for your tickets than people who buy just tickets.

And by saying that you're disadvantaged vs on site people for not having a perk they do, by saying you should have it too because they do, that's saying that you're entitled to have something that others have because they have it. There's no acknowledging they have it because they made the choice to book within the parameters Disney set to have the perk while you did not.

To say it's an upgrade to go from being able to get 5-6 FPs in a day to 3? Really? Yes the ability to get them in one place is an upgrade. The limitations are not.

I've already said that having more would be nicer, but the 3 is perfectly manageable. The limitation is not a deal breaker by any means. When you're getting that number of FP's, which I did routinely, you're doing a lot of splitting up, crossing over, re-walking through areas, all of which is saved by using the FP+ effectively. And the 60 day perk isn't a dealbreaker to those who don't have it as they have the same system in place to get their FPs as was before... The earlier you come to the park, the better your selection.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

This is where we are fundamentally disagreeing, and think that's the issue we're having in our communication with each other. Arriving at the park an hour after opening and finding FP+ not available until evening (if at all) is not having the same access to those rides as someone who booked their FP+ 60 days beforehand. MK did not have this problem before FP+.

But it's exactly what you could get when you got only paper FP's before. If you showed up an hour after opening, it was not only likely, but overwhelmingly probable that on busy days, rides like Soarin, TSM, and TT only had late afternoon/evening FP's an hour or two after park opening. I've been to the park 1.5 hours after opening to find out that TT long ran out of FPs. You have the same access you've always enjoyed.

The people who have different access, who could make the plans further out... They paid for that advantage. If you want that advantage, you too can make the choice to get it as well.

If you consider it to be the same, that's your choice.

I'm not saying it's the same as in the 60 days, I'm saying it's the same as it's always been.

I understood your points, but the continued condescending language and basically insinuating that offsite guests who feel like they are getting less now are "entitled" is telling me that we will not come to any common ground, so at this point I don't see a reason to continue beating a dead horse.

Again, I'm not being condescending. I'm being very clear that we all make choices in our vacations. Somehow you're getting out of that that I'm implying you don't splurge on vacations and thus being insulted and I'm somehow being rude in pointing out that Disney's goal is to make money.

And I'm sorry, but when I read what I read above, that you don't like that on-site guests get a service that off-site guests don't and you feel you should, despite it being a perk for staying on-site, yes, that is entitlement. You have available the same system you always had, first come, first serve, get your pass based on demands of the day when you stay offsite. When you stay onsite, you can plan 60 days out. They can make that plan because they pay for the perk by staying onsite. If you don't pay for that perk, you don't deserve to have the perk. It's exactly the same as if I were staying at Pop and complaining that because the folks at the Poly have a monorail, I should have a monorail and completely ignores that they have a monorail because they made a choice to stay at a place that provides it, and paid for that privilege. The fact that they can get to the parks faster, easier, with less of a line, with a shorter commute... They paid for that. Disney doesn't owe me similar because I'm at Disney and other people have it and I want it.

I'm sorry, but I guess there isn't common ground. People get what they pay for. If you don't pay to stay on site, you don't get the perks. The issue isn't that you feel that the system people have been left with is worse because they stay offsite, the issue is you realize the system people use by staying onsite is better because they walk in with something you want but don't have yet and feel they took away from you. That's certainly not the case at all, as people can still book FP+ with the same method and manner they could with the old FP, with the same limitations and demands.

 

[Luckybee]

Again, a high demand place... Of course the line in FL is going to be long. Every line in FL is long.



Well, that's where the logic falls down... "Essentially the same" isn't the same as actually the same. SoG is kind of the forgotten stepchild in the kind-of-but-not-quite Disney family in that it's really not one of the core Disney resorts, despite it's other ties and proximity. So no DDP, no DME... You're in the same boat as the Swans and Dolphins.



Then that's about where you choose to spend your money. For you, the room size and the location of the hotel is worth the compromises in the ability to do the FP+. And that's fine, nothing wrong with that.

I make those choices on my Disney vacations too... But when I stay at Pop and save the money, I don't begrudge those who can roll out of bed and hop the monorail. It's not the fault of Disney for not bringing the monorail to Pop, it's not the fault of those who choose to spend the money to stay at a monorail resort. It was me being laid out with the same options as everybody else and deciding that, in that case, my time isn't worth the cost of the monorail. It's all about choices.

Sure, I could go cheaper and stay offsite and maybe get a better room, but while my time isn't valuable enough to warrant paying for the monorail, it sure is valuable enough to warrant paying for ability to enjoy Disney perks vs having a nicer room. Pop at $120 a night or offsite for $60? 7 days that's $420 for your entire party to enjoy the perks... So in my case, $420 for 2-6 people to get the Disney bubble.

To begrudge Disney in not giving you Deluxe perks when you wish to pay Value prices and to say that it's all part of some grand scheme to make more money... Well... Duh. Of course it's designed to make money. As a business, that's what they do. So you can get a better room at SoG for cheaper, but none of the other perks that people in Disney resorts get... Or you can choose if the perks are worth the price increase, or understand that because you've chosen to make that sacrifice for a better room at a better price, you've decided you'll enjoy fewer perks.

If this was an issue of a Deluxe person paying Deluxe prices and being upset that they're not getting a Deluxe experiences... Well yeah, I get that frustration. But not getting why when you're not paying for the full experience you're not getting the full experience...? Well, the reason for your problem is answered by your question. Or, as we used to say in business school "you get what you pay for."

But that is part of the problem for some. When we last went to Disney we stayed at Animal Kingdom Lodge on the concierge floor. This is supposed to be a Disney Deluxe property. We paid twice what we would have paid at any other deluxe in Orlando incl. JW, Ritz, Hyatt Grand Cypress(where we've stayed 3x). etc. We expected a deluxe experience and didn't get anywhere close. At best it was comparable to a 3* with basic rooms and service equivalent to a Holiday Inn only more crowded.
This is why we wouldn't consider staying onsite again, and why we'll book just a night or 2 at a Value as a throwaway(and it'll will still be a cost savings overall) , and only go to Disney on the days we have advance fp+ and otherwise go elsewhere for the rest of our 2 weeks.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But it's exactly what you could get when you got only paper FP's before. If you showed up an hour after opening, it was not only likely, but overwhelmingly probable that on busy days, rides like Soarin, TSM, and TT only had late afternoon/evening FP's an hour or two after park opening. I've been to the park 1.5 hours after opening to find out that TT long ran out of FPs. You have the same access you've always enjoyed.

And if you read my post, I was specifically referring to MK. The above was *never* the case with MK. It is now. Again I ask, how is that not lesser access?

I will respond ot more later as I have to leave for an appt, but I just want to address the comment about the condescending tone of your posts. What's making it condescending is the constant re-stating of the same point, as though I don't *understand* what you're saying.

I understand what you're saying perfectly. Disagreement does not equal lack of understanding of the other side's point. I got it the first time, I just disagree with you as it applies to FP+.

 

[lovebuzzandwoody]

You'll do fine! We loved it, and didn't miss not pulling FP- at all! If you have your ADR's scheduled, the block of FP+ you schedule will not allow you to overlap by default, kind of nice! Be sure to look at all the options it gives you, pick the one that is closest to what you want, then tweak one or two as you need!

Oh awesome! I didn't realize that was the case with ADRs!

I think I have a plan with the windows of time I'd like to have FPs all worked out. I like the idea of making them later in the day and taking our chances on stand by in the mornings. Like a PP said, that's incentive to get to RD!

 

[mejo]

Yes, you read right! My DH called me at 3 pm Dec 30th, said pack a bag, and by 4 we were headed on the 24 hour drive to WDW for New Years eve! Called for a room from Atlanta 6:30. Crazy crowded all week, made my FP+ the night before each day, and we had a FABULOUS time!!! Park hopped 2-3 parks each day, bands worked great (Got them at check in) and made 2 changes to FP+ on the fly. 6 nights 7 days, VERY HAPPY!!!

Sounds wonderful, I think I'm jealous, I don't get to go until May. Unless there are soft opening from the mine train, not sure I could contain myself then.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Ok, so I'm back at a computer again and can respond to a few quick things...

But it's exactly what you could get when you got only paper FP's before. If you showed up an hour after opening, it was not only likely, but overwhelmingly probable that on busy days, rides like Soarin, TSM, and TT only had late afternoon/evening FP's an hour or two after park opening. I've been to the park 1.5 hours after opening to find out that TT long ran out of FPs. You have the same access you've always enjoyed.

I touched on this earlier with MK FP access not being the same, but in all reality FP access at Epcot and DHS isn't the same either (for anyone, not just offsite guests). With the previous program, you could FP both TT and Soarin (yes, if you got there early enough) - you can't do that anymore, no matter what time you get there or if you have prebooking. At DHS you used to be able to FP both TSMM and RNRC - now, like with Soarin/TT, you have to choose. Again, yes it's the same for all guests, but it is *different* than previous FP access.

So I disagree that we (being any WDW guest) have "the same access you've always enjoyed."

I'm not saying it's the same as in the 60 days, I'm saying it's the same as it's always been.

And I'm saying it's not, because the day-of FP inventory isn't the same as its always been. It's significantly depleted for those who stay offsite. I don't necessarily have a huge issue with prebooking as I still believe that Disney intends to give offsiters the ability to prebook as well (with a +10/+30 advantage for those onsite) - but to say that same day access to FP+ is the same as it always was with FP- is, IMO, factually inaccurate.

Again, I'm not being condescending. I'm being very clear that we all make choices in our vacations. Somehow you're getting out of that that I'm implying you don't splurge on vacations and thus being insulted and I'm somehow being rude in pointing out that Disney's goal is to make money.

That's not what I'm getting out of it at all. The condescending comments, as I mentioned above, are related to the re-explanation of the same thing over and over again as though I am just not understanding what you're saying. I get that Disney is a business. I never said or implied it wasn't. I certainly don't think it's a charity - I don't think any adult does

And I'm sorry, but when I read what I read above, that you don't like that on-site guests get a service that off-site guests don't and you feel you should, despite it being a perk for staying on-site, yes, that is entitlement.

And this is where I say I'm sorry, but that's not what I'm saying at all. If I were upset that onsite guests get a service that offsite guests don't, I'd be upset at onsite guests getting DDP, DME, EMH, etc - and, as I've already said, I'm not. When I have stayed onsite, I have found value in all of the onsite perks (including ones SOG guests don't get). I in no way expect Disney to offer offsite guests the same perks as onsite guests.

What I do not like is that Disney took a system that was in place for over a decade and that was equal for every person who paid admission to the park - no matter where they slept - and changed it into a class system where what you can experience is determined by where you can afford to sleep. (Which, if many rumors here are true, will only be further extrapolated to extra FP+s for deluxe guests, etc). If WDW had taken the Universal approach to FP and made it an onsite perk from the very beginning, I (and likely many others) would not have a problem with it at all.

Yes, offsite guests have the same "first come, first serve" day of options - but instead of the "first come" being anyone who chose to get to the park by park opening that day, first come is now 60 days in advance for a good portion of the population. Yes, in low times, it will likely not matter much. My concern is more crowded times. Over Spring Break last year, we were able to pull 5-7 FPs in MK and ride SO many rides - with crowd levels of 8s, just like this past weekend's crowds were. Even the SB lines we got in weren't longer than 25-30 mins (not that there weren't longer ones, there were...we FP'd those). The many reports of how much longer SB lines were this past weekend, and how quickly FPs were gone at MK - a park that did NOT have that problem with FP-, is concerning to me.

I truly don't understand how anyone can look at it and say it's the exact same system and the exact same access.

But if thinking it's different access makes me entitled, then I think there are a lot of entitled people on this board, b/c even most of the pro-FP+ posts I've read acknowledge the changes.