Sticky family situation............(LONG POST)

[escape]

I agree with the attorney route. With this being part of a pre=nup, it sounds like the wife would have some say in it as well. I think you are smart by trying to get this issue resolved before anything happens to your dad.

Good luck with all of this.

 

[mom2grace]

And probably, when it comes down to it, I would help to care for her. I just don't want to be legally obligated to!

 

[Rylee]

My parents divorced when I was an adult, both have remarried.

My dad's bank accounts are all in his name, my sister's name, and my name, his wife is not on them, but this is a community property state, but there is a pre-nup/will.

My dear dad has a will/pre-nup that leaves everything to my sister and I, except that we have to maintain their home for her as long as she does not remarry. His wife has no money to speak of, but she does work and is healthy enough to continue to work for a long time.

I don't know how much $$ my dad has, I don't really care because I would rather have him forever, but my guess is at least $200K and maybe MUCH more, potentially a million or two. (His home is worth $400K, has 2 new Cadillacs and 1 Corvette, travels a lot)




My 1st prayer is that DDad lives for another 30 years and this never really becomes an issue. DDad is 63, just has prostate cancer surgery, but is now "clean", he is otherwise very healthy.

Over the past 6 months, DDad has shared with me some financial decisions his wife has made, specifically co-signing about 25K in loans for her brother, who is about 47, not a penny to his name, no credit, etc. DDad was not aware of much of this, until the brother called very upset and spilled the beans. DDad is very financially saavy, self-made man.

This is on top of the crazy family issues that I can witness, loser brother from above, 1 son who is similar to brother, nephews who are headed nowhere due to poor parenting.




According to the will, the "trust" has to maintain the home for her as long she does not remarry. I believe sister and I are the trust, we are the co-executors. It says nothing about moving people in with her. My concern is either family or a boyfriend. This is her 3rd or 4th marriage. (Why get married when you can live rent-free?!)

Still with me?!

I want DDad's wife to have a home, but my sister and I are concerned that the maintenance will turn into a nightmare and we will end up taking care of her to boot. She has 2 sons, a brother, and nieces and nephews who all live close and are emotionally close to her, but not really in a financial position to take care of her.




So, my sister and I are deciding what to do.........we are planning to talk to DDad, we have a very close and open relationship...........and bring up our concerns. Emphasizing that we will respect his wishes, and we want his wife to have a place to live, but we are concerned about what we might be dealing with after the fact.

I know, most of you are saying DON'T TALK to DDad, but it really will be okay, and I think he might be relieved if we bring it up. When he has his prostate cancer surgery, I had power of attorney, even though his wife was there the whole time. He commented this weekend that he hasn't been sleeping, and sleep has never been an issue for him.




Some options to discuss are

1. Sell the house after the fact, then she gets 50% of the proceeds to buy a new place (plenty of $$, we live in the midwest, average home price $150K) and sister and I are off the hook. She could probably do whatever she wants with this $$.

2. We buy her a maintenance-free condo

3. It stays as it is written.

My DH and I discussed legally opting out of our share of the home in order to not have to take care of her. Sister won't do this, she wants the $$ from the house, doesn't need it by any stretch.

Does anyone have experience with this type of situation? Advice?

DH and I do have a close attorney friend who we are going to talk to.

Sorry if I missed it, but...

What happens if she does remarry? Will she then be responsible for the upkeep? Will she be required to move out?

I would not speak to a lawyer first, take your concerns directly to your father... I, personally, would not want to feel as though my children went behind my back, and discussed by financial wishes, as if I wasn't capable of making sound decisions.

After you voice your concerns to your father, you could suggest speaking to the "family friend" or having him speak with his lawyer, again. It sounds as if you father has given this a great deal of thought and I'm sure he's dealing with a competent lawyer, who is aware of the community property laws, but you might want to find out what exactly is legally included in "maintaining" the home.

Is the house paid for? Perhaps it would be better to allow her to have "life use" of the house, or for as long as she wants, but have her be responsible for maintaining it. This provides for her, but you and you sister would still inherit it or the money from the sale, at the time she no longer needs use of the home.

 

[mom2grace]

Sorry if I missed it, but...

What happens if she does remarry? Will she then be responsible for the upkeep? Will she be required to move out?

I would not speak to a lawyer first, take your concerns directly to your father... I, personally, would not want to feel as though my children went behind my back, and discussed by financial wishes, as if I wasn't capable of making sound decisions.

After you voice your concerns to your father, you could suggest speaking to the "family friend" or having him speak with his lawyer, again. It sounds as if you father has given this a great deal of thought and I'm sure he's dealing with a competent lawyer, who is aware of the community property laws, but you might want to find out what exactly is legally included in "maintaining" the home.

Is the house paid for? Perhaps it would be better to allow her to have "life use" of the house, or for as long as she wants, but have her be responsible for maintaining it. This provides for her, but you and you sister would still inherit it or the money from the sale, at the time she no longer needs use of the home.

My sister and I would gain possession of the home if she remarries. However, why would she remarry if she can live there with whomever she wants as the will is written right now?

I don't know if the house is paid off, probably, or it's a small mortgage, $100K or less.

I am not going to talk to an attorney before I talk to my dad. After he decided what to do, then DH and I will make our choices (opting out of the house, etc)

 

[The Mystery Machine]

According to the will, the "trust" has to maintain the home for her as long she does not remarry. I believe sister and I are the trust, we are the co-executors. It says nothing about moving people in with her. My concern is either family or a boyfriend. This is her 3rd or 4th marriage. (Why get married when you can live rent-free?!)

I think you are misguided here.
You are not "the trust", the trust is the trust. My understanding with a trust is that it is more or less a seperate entity.

Basically, he is already leaving the house to her unless she remarries.

My question is how what money goes into the "house trust" and how is it going to be "replenished"?

What about damages? She could mismanage the home repairs and you are left with a flipping MESS!!!!

Tell your sister keeping a home that someone else lives in is a sure way to lose money in the end.

You need to read the trusts and go over them with your dad and a lawyer.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

What do you mean by "maintain the house for her." Are you and your sister going to have to go over there and change the light bulbs?

Who is paying the property taxes?

What do you mean "Move somebody in with her?" Will you be obligated to rent a UHaul and tote the packing boxes?

Otherwise, what a grown woman does in her house is really nobody else's business, whether they are the Executors of the Trust that holds title to her living arrangements or not.

If it were me and my Dad had been married to this person a reasonable amount of time, I'd want her to own her house. This really isn't anything I'd consider myself or want a parent to consider personally, but it is your Dad's money. If you have concerns, you just need to go talk to him.

 

[livie1205]

first of all his wife SHOULD have the home, its her home,she lives there with HER husband.Also I know here in Florida that you CANNOT give or sell your home from out from under your spouse without there consent(quitclaim) they can live there until they die even if they move someone else in,even if the home is not in there name..they have homestead protection.you should speak with your father and your stepmother, it IS her buisness too.I would never be married to a man that would do this,your his daughter but she is his wife...children grow up and have their own familys and spouses but your husband or wife is the one that stays with you.

 

[Rylee]

I think you are misguided here.
You are not "the trust", the trust is the trust. My understanding with a trust is that it is more or less a seperate entity.

Basically, he is already leaving the house to her unless she remarries.

My question is how what money goes into the "house trust" and how is it going to be "replenished"?

I questioned this very thing but state laws vary, so I didn't want to post if my info isn't correct.

I'm under the impression, (and someone feel free to correct me) that being the executors of the will, does not necessarily but you in control of the trust. I thought the state maintain some type of control and when something out of the ordinary comes up, the courts need to be petitioned and exercise the decisions. ???

 

[KariC]

first of all his wife SHOULD have the home, its her home,she lives there with HER husband.Also I know here in Florida that you CANNOT give or sell your home from out from under your spouse without there consent(quitclaim) they can live there until they die even if they move someone else in,even if the home is not in there name..they have homestead protection.you should speak with your father and your stepmother, it IS her buisness too.I would never be married to a man that would do this,your his daughter but she is his wife...children grow up and have their own familys and spouses but your husband or wife is the one that stays with you.

chuckling over that one! they've been married only 8 years, and she has more than one previous spouse. Nit sure about her track record of staying, and it seems like the father is honoring his previous commitments to his children (and what he wants them to inherit).

 

[livie1205]

ok the way it goes in FLORIDA (i dont know what state your talking about this is just FLORIDA)is

PROTECTION OF THE FAMILY if a married person dies and the family homestead is in the deceased persons name only,by operation of law(even if a will states otherwise)the surviving spouse receives a life estate and the children receive a remainder estate,if their are no children the spouse receives fee simple estate.the purpose of the homestead law is to ptotect from being displaced from the homestead.

THIS MAY BE NOT TRUE IN YOUR STATE but i would check.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I questioned this very thing but state laws vary, so I didn't want to post if my info isn't correct.

I'm under the impression, (and someone feel free to correct me) that being the executors of the will, does not necessarily but you in control of the trust. I thought the state maintain some type of control and when something out of the ordinary comes up, the courts need to be petitioned and exercise the decisions. ???

I guess it really depends on the trust. Who knows, right?

OP, have you read the will and the trusts? Your best bet is to get a copy and have your own lawyer read over them.

If you dad names you in a trust, are you bound by it?

I would certainly opt out of all attachment to a house that I was not living in. Unless of course I was Bill Gates "rich".

 

[mickeyboat]

Here is what I would do:

Talk to your dad, and then ask him if it is o.k. to talk to the lawyer who drew up the will and the trust. He or she might be able to give some insight as to how your dad's plan will work.

I am guessing you and your sister are named as the administrators or trustees of the trust. The trust will own all the property put into the trust until the wife remarries or dies. Then the property will go to whoever is named in the trust - which I am assuming is you and your sister.

As a trustee, you will be legally obligated to administer the trust as per the trust agreement. The trust will technically be monitored by the court (probably probate court), and your dad's wife can challenge how you administer the trust in court. For example, if she thinks you are not giving her enough money, or maintaining the house properly, she can take you to court - not something you want for the long term in an already-sticky relationship.

What happens to all the posessions in the home once your father dies? Has he specified who gets what? Are there herilooms that mean a lot to you? It might behoove you to take posession of those before he dies

I can't believe your dad's wife would enjoy havnig her husband's children in charge of maintaining her lifestyle. Maybe she would be amenable to another arrangement.

My advice is that if after you talk to your dad and his lawyer, you are not comfortable with the arrangement, you try to talk your dad into something else - which might be a one-time cash payout of some sort - which I bet would make everyone a lot happier.

Good luck!

Denae

 

[ducklite]

I'm wondering if by "maintain the home" it means she has life use of it, but has to pay the bills except maybe the taxes and doesn't legally own it, so can't use it for collateral?

I'd have a frank discussion about your concerns with your father.

 

[livie1205]

that is right...cant sell or use it for anything other than living in...but she can have whoever she wants live there and even remarry (if this was like florida) but when she dies it goes the HIS HEIRS...

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I just caught up a bit on this thread. I think it's great that you will still be in contact with her and you do care for her. I would talk to your Dad and tell him your concerns. I personally think that selling the house and giving her 50% or a percentage would be a good idea. She has a place to live (that she can buy) and you don't have to support her and her family for endless years. Good luck. It is always a rough situation talking about wills.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Here is what I would do:

Talk to your dad, and then ask him if it is o.k. to talk to the lawyer who drew up the will and the trust. He or she might be able to give some insight as to how your dad's plan will work.

I am guessing you and your sister are named as the administrators or trustees of the trust. The trust will own all the property put into the trust until the wife remarries or dies. Then the property will go to whoever is named in the trust - which I am assuming is you and your sister.

As a trustee, you will be legally obligated to administer the trust as per the trust agreement. The trust will technically be monitored by the court (probably probate court), and your dad's wife can challenge how you administer the trust in court. For example, if she thinks you are not giving her enough money, or maintaining the house properly, she can take you to court - not something you want for the long term in an already-sticky relationship.

What happens to all the posessions in the home once your father dies? Has he specified who gets what? Are there herilooms that mean a lot to you? It might behoove you to take posession of those before he dies

I can't believe your dad's wife would enjoy havnig her husband's children in charge of maintaining her lifestyle. Maybe she would be amenable to another arrangement.

My advice is that if after you talk to your dad and his lawyer, you are not comfortable with the arrangement, you try to talk your dad into something else - which might be a one-time cash payout of some sort - which I bet would make everyone a lot happier.

Good luck!

Denae

I just want to say excellent post on the subject. Basically this is what I was thinking but not able to get it out there.

Holey crap OP!!! Can you imagine having her lawyer take YOU and YOUR SISTER to court!!!
My guess is that will happen.

Your dad's wishes are well intentioned but just not reasonable from a realistic standpoint.

I would plead my case with my father. Good Luck!

 

[momrek06]

I think it is good to hash all of this out now--While your dad is still alive.

I have witnessed so many families fall apart when parents die. One family I know fought over each and every item in the stinking house

Your dad seems like a smart cookie. Why don't you talk to him in private about your concerns?

Good luck!

ITA with this post!!! hentob: you are a smart cookie as well. Happy New Year to you. (Sorry, OP, did not mean to take this off topic).

 

[mom2grace]

Okay, here is what it says............

1. real estate and fixtures (Everything you would leave when you sell a house, appliances, etc) to sister and me "as Trustees for the use and purpose hereinafter set forth."

2. Then it names the trust........dad's name for the benefit for his wife

3. The co-trustees shall make the house available to wife for her use as her primary residence..........for so long as she remains widow and has to live in 6 months/year..........if this does not happen then is distributed equally to sister and me.

4. The trust shall pay the taxes, insurance, maintenace and repair of residence. Where does this money come from?

5. Upon written permission of wife, sister and I can sell the house and the proceeds shall be placed at interest in trust and the trustee shall pay the net income from these invested funds to wife on a quarterly basis as long as wife remains widow. So does this mean that we pay her the interest that the investment earns?


6. The rest and residue of estate is one-half to sister and one-half to me.

7. Sister and I are co-executrixes of the will


Is this helpful for you who are more in the know? I have copies of the will and my dad's living will for healthcare as well.

THANKS!

 

[mom2grace]

I just want to say excellent post on the subject. Basically this is what I was thinking but not able to get it out there.

Holey crap OP!!! Can you imagine having her lawyer take YOU and YOUR SISTER to court!!!
My guess is that will happen.

I could see this happening as well, especially as her family pressures her for their own personal gain.

 

[mylightshines]

I would definitely talk to your dad about your concerns. I agree to either just give her the house or sell the house and she gets the proceeds.

When my dad died, he had a very evil wife. (Whole other story). She had four kids. (They didn't marry until her kids were adults and she never worked). His will stated that she would get everything, but upon her death, it was to be divided between her kids and his kids.

Well, when he died, she refused to give us anything, even our pictures from when we were children. He had two houses, four cars, probably $50,000 in tools. She took it all and gave it all to HER kids. Even after she got all that, the funeral home had to sue her to get their money.

She was just out for money. She even refused to bring a suit of his to the funeral home and they went to Goodwill and found one for him to be buried in. She was just evil, evil.

I definitely would talk to your dad, explain to him that her keeping the house until she marries will cause all kinds of problems (she could live with someone and never marry, her children could live rent free, the trust would be responsible for all repairs, etc.)

I tried to talk to my dad about his situation and he trusted his wife to do the right thing. He just would not listen.