Taking your children for holidays during school is illegal in the UK

[sersee05]

I may get flamed for this. I think school is important. But I also have no problem with my high schooler(well now college student) taking a day off here and there. My daughter worked hard in high school. She took all her classes and played sports after school. She was not home until 9pm most nights , then needed to shower and do her homework. She had straight A's. She was tired. There were a couple of times she just wanted a day off to sleep in. If her grades were good and she had the absences, I was fine with it. I figured in the real world, people take vacations and days off when they need to once in awhile. Why can't she do the same? She was a very responsible child. I felt the same way when I was younger but wasn't allowed to do that. I cut . I cut a lot.

As for vacation, I think that most parents know whats best for their child. If the kid is failing and you let them go on vacation for a week, well then you have to accept the consequences of what missing school might do to your child. You can always try and minimize missing also by piggy backing it to some days off that the school gives.

 

[jodifla]

The way I've seen it done the number of school days is more or less the same (IIRC 190 instead of 186) and there is still a summer vacation, but it is 6 weeks instead of 12 and the remaining 6 weeks of time off are spread out throughout the year. So the amount of time off is the same and a lot of families love it because they do have a breadwinner in a seasonal industry (construction, marine services, and farming are all major industries here) so fall/winter/spring breaks are more suitable for travel than summer vacation. But others have expressed concern about the availability of childcare/camps over the breaks. Locally our teacher's union head is a supporter of the idea, but I'm not sure where the larger organization stands.

Around here the loudest opposition comes from sports boosters and the travel industry. Michigan actually has a travel-industry-backed law prohibiting public schools from starting before Labor Day because even start dates creeping into August cut into the flow of tourist dollars in the seasonal tourist towns. Year-round school would cut the season in half, and the spring/fall/winter breaks would mean more travel dollars flow to destinations outside of the state where the weather is better at those times of year. And the sports nuts worry about how a balanced/year-round schedule would impact traditional sports schedules.

I'm so glad they don't start school until after Labor Day -- often, August is the nicest part of summer! And we've had such lousy winters here lately.

There was a year-round school about 8 miles from here for several years, but it switched back to a traditional schedule about 4 years ago. People couldn't make the schedules work because the kids in older grades weren't on year round schools, so it made it hard for families to ever go on vacation.

And let's face it: Who wants to be off here in February for two weeks? Even April and May are lousy here many years. People want to be in their lakes and on their boats, and in Michigan, that's most likely happening late May if you're lucky through early September.

 

[BagOLaughs]

Wow. Steven Spielberg credits his mother for allowing him to play hookie with her and make videos.

Well that's closed the argument, If Steven Spielberg did it then it must be OK!

Yey

 

[kamik86]

I'm so glad they don't start school until after Labor Day -- often, August is the nicest part of summer! And we've had such lousy winters here lately.

There was a year-round school about 8 miles from here for several years, but it switched back to a traditional schedule about 4 years ago. People couldn't make the schedules work because the kids in older grades weren't on year round schools, so it made it hard for families to ever go on vacation.

And let's face it: Who wants to be off here in February for two weeks? Even April and May are lousy here many years. People want to be in their lakes and on their boats, and in Michigan, that's most likely happening late May if you're lucky through early September.

Oddly enough I live in MA and actually like taking my time off when its cold. This area is nice in the summer, I can go outside and enjoy the beauty of the area then and don't need time off to do that. Days are longer and there is time afterwork.

In winter when the days are so short then a typical work day means you don't even see the sun (I even work in a building with few windows so even worse) and its freezing cold out all the time. This is when I want time off... to go on vacation to somewhere warm.

My next vacation is scheduled for late January. Which is just about the time I get completely sick of snow.

 

[Patience]

I like the winter break too. Our school is year round and we rarely vacation in the summer, other than perhaps a short beach trip to a beach 3 hours away. Vacation spots are too hot, too crowded, and too expensive during the summer. We prefer vacationing either in the fall for fall break or the winter break. A tropical island in the winter is perfect and we love Disney in the fall. Year round school lets us take advantage of these times without worrying about missing school.

 

[TiffyRose]

There is a lot of discussion on both sides of the fence here and no one seems to be ready to agree to disagree. My personal opinion is that, in the same way that life is not fair, neither are rules. In reality, we SHOULD have different rules for everyone, because everyone is an individual. Each child will have their own ability to catch up or not based on their intelligence and home environment. I was sick a lot as a kid and almost always got As. I did go to private school, so the rules were different, but I think the principals hold. I much prefer the idea of a personalized education, each child learning at their own pace, and if they can keep up on that track, they stay in that track. The one-size fits all grading model is the real issue here.

If we're arguing the rules need to be the same for everyone, then if GIJoe's kids and Bob the Builder's kids and Nurse Nancy's kids all get to take vaycay in the middle of the year, so should everyone else's. I don't see why we don't just call every absence an absence, get rid of excused/unexcused and all the lying that goes with that system. If your kid can keep up, they move forward, if they don't, they stay behind, regardless of age, socio-economic background, or why they aren't there. Back in the day (1800s or so) that's how it was. People weren't hung up on if they were "behind" their age group, and the learning that mattered was quality learning.

 

[texas disney mom]

This is why more and more people are homeschooling. The government doesn't own your children.

 

[Mamato2cutekiddos]

I had no idea this might be an issue until I read about it awhile back. We are taking our daughter out of school for 8 school days in September to go to WDW. The reason for this was primarily that i am a tax accountant and I am slammed from October-May. My parents live over 4000 miles away from us and we haven't seen them in 2 years. That 1.5 weeks in September was literally the only time that worked for me, my DH, my Mom and my Dad to all get vacation off at the same time. We haven't been on any sort of vacation/holiday in nearly 4 years. This definitely isn't a luxury for us.

My DD is going in 1st grade. She did wonderfully all through K. I talked to her Kindy teacher at the end of the school year and asked her if she had any worries whatsoever about DD being gone for a week in September. She laughed and said no, given that the first month or more is simply review of the previous year. Now of course her new teacher could feel differently about it but I feel confident that DD will not fall behind. I already told her that we would need to bring our school work with us to ensure she is caught up when she returns.

I don't have any plans on making this a regular occurance (taking the kids out of school) and if she struggled even a little bit last year, I wouldn't have even considered removing her from school. Unless I make a career change (unlikely) winter vacations will be out for us. I can't imagine doing WDW in the summer (ever). I am taking this trip anticipating that it might be our last for awhile.

I am prepared to see unexcused absences on her non-existant report card (no report cards for K-5th grade in our school district, apparently...how that makes sense is beyond me but I digress...). I am also willing to stand by my decision, however her teacher may feel.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I am prepared to see unexcused absences on her non-existant report card (no report cards for K-5th grade in our school district, apparently...how that makes sense is beyond me but I digress...).

What? No report cards for six years?

 

[dollarmite]

I don't believe that to be common at all. Most schools would have a MUCH bigger issue with 30 total days missed than 5 in a row.

As for WHY funding is doled out based on attendance, the fact remains that on the whole, kids who have good attendance score better than those who do not.

Not true in my experience.

My kids have missed up to 4 weeks at a time for overseas travel and have always received excellent marks, even being top of the class some years. Other students at both schools I myself attended and now at my kids' schools who do very well at the awards nights have also missed lots of school, usually for travel, but occasionally for for acting gigs.

 

[dollarmite]

A question for anyone... is there ANY limit that you'd be ok with? In other words, if you think it should be ok (fully excused) for a student to miss a week of school, what about two weeks? Three? A month?

My kids have missed up to four weeks at a time for overseas travel. Most of our trips are about five weeks, and I try as often as possible to incorporate the two week break they get twice a year, so that total school time missed is three weeks. I know of other kids who have missed an entire term (approx 9-13 weeks) for trips to Europe. It was never an issue.

I'm very glad I live in a country where this sort of nonsense isn't an issue. Do schools discourage pupils from taking holidays during term time? Sure. But they don't impose ridiculous penalties for the small minority that do take time off for travel.

I can say that every single time I've told (not asked, but told) the schools that the kids will be away as they'll be overseas, the teachers and admin have been extremely positive about it. Sometimes they offer to give us work to take away; sometimes not. Either way is fine; and the children aren't penalised for it. In primary school the teachers were more focused on the kids just having a good time during the trip.

Later this year DS2 will miss three weeks (high) school in addition to 2 1/2 weeks school holiday as we travel through Europe/UK/Japan for 5 1/2 weeks. His history teacher is thrilled that DS will be able to visit some of the sites talked about in class over the last few years, and his Japanese teacher is excited that DS will be able to put his Japanese lessons to use in a real setting. Taking this trip during the 6-7 week Christmas break is not feasible, so this is the best option for us.

Last year we spent 5 weeks in the US (2 weeks school holidays, 3 weeks missed school time). On the day we arrived back it was awards night and DS1 was presented with the top awards for the special extension programme he was in for students focused on taking up a particular career.

I hadn't originally planned on taking the kids out of school once they reached high school, but last year DS1 (grade 12) was already ahead of the class, and DS2 (grade 9) wasn't having any difficulty. As I predicted, it was probably the last time we'd all take a major holiday together as a family as DS1 didn't want to come this time, so we went for it, with the teachers' blessing. However, based on the way DS2's programme will be set up for the next two years, we probably won't take any time off school until he graduates.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Not true in my experience.

My kids have missed up to 4 weeks at a time for overseas travel and have always received excellent marks, even being top of the class some years. Other students at both schools I myself attended and now at my kids' schools who do very well at the awards nights have also missed lots of school, usually for travel, but occasionally for for acting gigs.

Showing 1 individual who missed a lot & still scored straight A's (or 1 that attended every class and failed them all) doesn't disprove my point. Study the data from 10's of thousands of kids & you'll see there's a trend.

 

[Flight]

Study the data from 10's of thousands of kids & you'll see there's a trend.

There is all kinds of interesting data when it comes to educating (or not) our students. Here's one - Every year close to a million students drop out of school. Now there is a problem. Not as big of a problem is family vacations during the school year. No, I do not see a correlation between the two.

 

[Colleen27]

Not true in my experience.

My kids have missed up to 4 weeks at a time for overseas travel and have always received excellent marks, even being top of the class some years. Other students at both schools I myself attended and now at my kids' schools who do very well at the awards nights have also missed lots of school, usually for travel, but occasionally for for acting gigs.

Its an average over whole populations, not about individuals. That's why I question its value - because the child who misses 10 days in a single chunk for a major family trip is grouped in with the kid who skips 10 days because he just doesn't like school, the kid who misses 10 days because his family was evicted and they're "couch surfing" and can't get to class, the kid with the addicted parent who misses 10 days because he feels he needs to take care of younger siblings (or of the parent), etc. And at least in the US, the sad fact is all those bad situations combined are more common than the 2+ week family vacation. Various surveys show the average length of vacation for American workers is 4 days, 25% of workers don't get paid vacation at all, and less than 10% of the workforce takes 2 weeks of vacation in a year (not necessarily all at once). So the "positive" missing-school situations are simply outnumbered by "negative" situations that cause chronic absenteeism.

 

[3 Hobbits 2 Disney]

It's funny everyone thinks the rules (in the US) are about education, when in reality they are 100% about funding. Schools get money for every kid in school each day. That's the ONLY reason the rules exist.

JACKPOT! We have a winner!

 

[Bec3b1g]

Its an average over whole populations, not about individuals. That's why I question its value - because the child who misses 10 days in a single chunk for a major family trip is grouped in with the kid who skips 10 days because he just doesn't like school, the kid who misses 10 days because his family was evicted and they're "couch surfing" and can't get to class, the kid with the addicted parent who misses 10 days because he feels he needs to take care of younger siblings (or of the parent), etc. And at least in the US, the sad fact is all those bad situations combined are more common than the 2+ week family vacation. Various surveys show the average length of vacation for American workers is 4 days, 25% of workers don't get paid vacation at all, and less than 10% of the workforce takes 2 weeks of vacation in a year (not necessarily all at once). So the "positive" missing-school situations are simply outnumbered by "negative" situations that cause chronic absenteeism.

Very insightful. Watch the documentary Rich Hill and you'll see the truth of these negative situations and why we need rules on absenteeism.

 

[monsterkitty]

JACKPOT! We have a winner!

And earlier in the thread I stated that in my state and many others, this is not true.

The fact is that when MOST students are in their seats in a classroom they are going to learn more than those who are not. I teach in a low-income district. Our kids don't miss school for vacations because they can't afford to go on vacations. Instead they miss school because they are at home babysitting younger siblings while mom and dad are at work. We even have some kids who stay home with mom or dad to help them with the younger children because mom or dad can't do it alone. When you're already at a disadvantage and then you miss school, you're more likely to fall behind. The farther you fall behind, the more frustrated you become. The main reason students act out in class is because they can't do the work and acting out deflects the lack of knowledge. These are the students who are more likely to drop out.

It always makes me scratch my head when people don't like the attendance rules at a school. We don't make the policy - the school board does. The school board makes the policies based on state laws. If people don't like the laws then do something about it. Did you vote in the last election? If not then you really have no right to complain.

 

[3 Hobbits 2 Disney]

As others have said you shouldn't presume. I have voted in every local abd national election for the last 32 years - every year I have been eligible to do so including absentee.
The attendance policy at our school is quite reasonable; however, we are also one of a very few states who have not implemented the Common Core madness; however we are subject to the failed proposition of NCLB. I so agree with a PP who said that statistics, when used to drive decision-making, lead to poor decisions.
Butts in seats are what pay the bills -- whether it is through state dollars, measurements of AYP, or being labeled a failing school. It is about the attendance, not the learning, and I say this as the mother of an honors student, member of the PTA, and civically involved citizen.

And earlier in the thread I stated that in my state and many others, this is not true.

The fact is that when MOST students are in their seats in a classroom they are going to learn more than those who are not. I teach in a low-income district. Our kids don't miss school for vacations because they can't afford to go on vacations. Instead they miss school because they are at home babysitting younger siblings while mom and dad are at work. We even have some kids who stay home with mom or dad to help them with the younger children because mom or dad can't do it alone. When you're already at a disadvantage and then you miss school, you're more likely to fall behind. The farther you fall behind, the more frustrated you become. The main reason students act out in class is because they can't do the work and acting out deflects the lack of knowledge. These are the students who are more likely to drop out.

It always makes me scratch my head when people don't like the attendance rules at a school. We don't make the policy - the school board does. The school board makes the policies based on state laws. If people don't like the laws then do something about it. Did you vote in the last election? If not then you really have no right to complain.

 

[Planogirl]

Of course it's all about dollars. And schools need those dollars so as long as that money for attendance policy exists many districts will crack down on students being absent. I don't blame the schools for that at all but instead those who establish the ridiculous systems that are in place.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

The point is that it does not matter what statistics say or what educators/government thinks is best for my children. I pay for the service. I pay taxes. I pay a lot of taxes. My property tax bill last year far exceeded what it costs my school district to educate my three children. The school district is providing me a service, no different than dcl is providing me a service when I purchase a cruise. The school district does not own me or my children and does not have the right to tell me how to raise my children. I know they think they do, but they don't.