Thank you to this board, but our upcoming group trip will be one and done!

[CT Disney]

It would more than likely be less than 75mins, measurably less more than likely too. Having FP on an attraction pretty much ensures the wait time will be longer (and sometimes vastly longer) than it would be if no FP existed.

When you have a constant stream of people going through a line, with little stoppage, you can get people through it quicker. If you have to stop people to let another line of people through you'll end up waiting longer. Whenever I was in the standby line I'm always hoping people are paying attention and keeping the line moving so I can squeak by before the CM cuts off the SB line to let FP people through. Same goes for when I'm in the FP line and I get stopped so people in the SB line can go through. Stoppage just adds to the wait time. You're just waiting longer in the SB line than in the FP line to begin with.

It still may be longer than someone wants to wait but that's all subjective.

So let’s say the line is shorter without fast pass...say on average 45 minutes instead of 75 minutes...a full 1/2 hour shorter.

With the fast pass system you’re getting two rides with about 90 minutes of waiting (15 minutes for fast pass then 75 thru standby)

Without fastpass, you’re getting two rides in 90 minutes...both thru the standby line.

I’m just not sure fast pass is adding to the overall amount of time people are waiting to ride a popular attraction two times in a row.

I do understand what you are saying about the stop and start nature of lines that have both standby and fast pass. But, for rides like SDD, that does not affect things. That ride moves a set number of people per hour. That number isn’t going to change no matter if they have a steady stream of people moving through, or if they are merging two lines further back in the queue.

I’m curious...do you think it would be better if fast pass did not exist? Sounds like you think lines would be shorter and overall more efficient?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So let’s say the line is shorter without fast pass...say on average 45 minutes instead of 75 minutes...a full 1/2 hour shorter.

With the fast pass system you’re getting two rides with about 90 minutes of waiting (15 minutes for fast pass then 75 thru standby)

Without fastpass, you’re getting two rides in 90 minutes...both thru the standby line.

I’m just not sure fast pass is adding to the overall amount of time people are waiting to ride a popular attraction two times in a row.

I do understand what you are saying about the stop and start nature of lines that have both standby and fast pass. But, for rides like SDD, that does not affect things. That ride moves a set number of people per hour. That number isn’t going to change no matter if they have a steady stream of people moving through, or if they are merging two lines further back in the queue.

I’m curious...do you think it would be better if fast pass did not exist? Sounds like you think lines would be shorter and overall more efficient?

Generally speaking most people here are on the same way of thinking that FP contributes to higher wait times; some of the people that didn't think like that became quite surprised by how well Smuggler's Run went without FP. Unfortunately Disney has been programing people over the years to expect it.

You need to compare attractions that do not have FP presently and with WDW that's very little. Rides with FP presently won't give you an accurate representation. Not to mention Disney can be quite good at manipulating that SB line (say by oh letting 5 or 6 people through the SB followed by 20-30 FP riders)..That's just one way of course.

Hourly capacity isn't what I'm talking about though. Every ride has a certain amount of guests it can get through. The question is will it be the FP or the SB people primarily? The answer is it will be the FP people primarily. 2 people could enter the line at the same time but if one goes through the FP line they, as intended, will likely ride before the other person (depending on the cutoff points the CM decides).

I said people may not want to wait in a line X amount long. Even if say your line is 30mins with no FP some people will not want to wait that long. That cannot be helped.

Universal didn't have EP on FJ for 7 years and on Gringotts for 3 or so years...it survived..people survived. I'm so not looking forward to when SWGE gets FP. We had a 30min, 45-50min wait and a 20min wait. Yeah good luck with seeing 20min wait in the SB line.

If you have a SB line of 75mins but a FP line of only 15mins it means Disney is really really really holding back people from the SB line. That contributes negatively to the wait time and on purpose. It feels great to be in the FP line until you're the person that isn't

 

[DisneyKoyote]

Agree 1000%. First time going to Disney with just me and my BF. Planning was already hard enough, I cannot imagine adding more people to the group, WITH children to boot.

 

[JakeAZ]

Agree 1000%. First time going to Disney with just me and my BF. Planning was already hard enough, I cannot imagine adding more people to the group, WITH children to boot.

In fairness to kids, they make everything harder, not just Disneyworld

 

[MaidMarian444]

Ha, I was just like OP planning our first trip in 2017. We were two families in a party of 8, with four kids between 2 and 6. We told everyone how we were dreading the trip and had been dragged into it by our friends. I made ruthless fun of Disney people. The reservations for rides and corporate restaurants seemed insane to me. Then we finally went on the trip . . . Lo and behold, I was addicted. My husband still hated it and the kids had some bad moments. But I loved it. On our drive home, I was feeling sad withdrawal symptoms. And now here I am, feverishly planning our next trip! Dragging my poor husband along! Obsessively reading message boards! Watching Disney vloggers on YouTube. I'm like that episode of Roseanne where she succumbs and becomes a Bingo lady.

 

[LSUmiss]

In fairness to kids, they make everything harder, not just Disneyworld

Right, but that’s part of my complaint for a supposed family-friendly establishment. You have to be able to be flexible with little kids & this current system allows little room for that.

 

[kandb]

Yes, as you said OP, each to their own. Sure sounds to me like with that attitude your trip is going to be miserable, and that's a shame. However, it's your choice how to vacation, what attitude to have, etc... From reading, sounds like you don't have a good handle on how things work at WDW, especially FP+. You absolutely don't need to wait in lines all day, or most of the things you ranted about. But if you're one and done, great. Hope you at least enjoy the one, before you're done. I find WDW system to be easy, user friendly and very productive, but each to their own.

Having a bad attitude and stating facts are two different things. The OP is stating what she does not like about the policies that Disney puts on planning a trip there and she has a bad attitude??? You need to look up the word attitude in the dictionary!

 

[maxiesmom]

Right, but that’s part of my complaint for a supposed family-friendly establishment. You have to be able to be flexible with little kids & this current system allows little room for that.

Yu can still be flexible. But you can't be totally flexible and expect to walk on all the rides or walk into the most popular restaurants. The flexibility has to be on your part too.

 

[dieumeye]

I'm planning the first trip for our family and I can see where the OP is coming from. My main issue isn't the planning... I enjoy doing the planning and scheduling.

My problem is that our FP+ window hasn't opened yet and I feel like I won't even have a chance at getting the FP+ reservations we want, and even if we do manage to get some of them, we'll be lucky to get any time at all, not times that work around other plans and existing ADRs. It's like, what's all this planning for if it's all thrown out the window once FP+ reservations open?

Yes, I'm talking about FoP, SDD, 7DMT, and yes, I realize we will technically have a chance... but it feels like the same kind of chance you have of winning the lottery. I'm so disheartened when I see people posting about not being able to get FP+ to these attractions at 60, at 60+1, at 60+2, even 60+3...

With our park days already set by ADRs, and a loose plan for other activities in place, the whole plan will be thrown out if we have to push all these attractions to the end of our trip to try to get FPs, or get FP times that aren't really lined up with our other plans, and/or have to rope drop to attempt to get on with a reasonable line.

That's my issue with the system. Don't really know what the solution is, though. If there is something that's free, but demand exceeds supply, then the only option is start charging. Which they're already doing - directly with the Club Level add on, and indirectly with the advantage you get by booking longer stays. I think I'd be in favor of a tiered cost system that allows you to book more and/or earlier FP+ reservations based on cost. It would upset a lot of people, but since you already get better FP+ access for paying more, at least a tiered system would offer more options and be more transparent than it is now. What good is something that's "free" if you won't necessarily be able to take advantage of it?

 

[JakeAZ]

Yu can still be flexible. But you can't be totally flexible and expect to walk on all the rides or walk into the most popular restaurants. The flexibility has to be on your part too.

This is the complaint! You can't be flexible once you book your ADRs and FP+, unless you don't care where you eat, what time you eat or what you ride.

I don't think anyone here expects to walk on the rides. We just want the ability to wake up on a "MK day" and say, "Wouldn't it be nice to go to AK today, instead of MK" That scenario just isn't possible without scrambling to find another ADR / FPs to swap what you already booked 60-180 days ago at MK.

 

[JakeAZ]

It's like, what's all this planning for if it's all thrown out the window once FP+ reservations open?

This!!!

You book your ADRs around park hours that are subject to change (and most likely will / or hard ticket events will be added), which determine the parks you'll be doing those days. Then your FP window opens and everything is up in the air again. Good luck moving that BOG dinner reservation because you couldn't get decent MK FP rides / times that day.

 

[dieumeye]

This!!!

You book your ADRs around park hours that are subject to change (and most likely will / or hard ticket events will be added), which determine the parks you'll be doing those days. Then your FP window opens and everything is up in the air again. Good luck moving that BOG dinner reservation because you couldn't get decent MK FP rides / times that day.

I don't mind all the planning, or the rigidity of a schedule full of FP+ and ADRs and stuff.

But it seems like there needs to be some change in the way things are done so you can plan everything at once. You still might not get everything worked out perfectly the way you want in the end, but at least you'll be able to adjust in the moment with all elements in play and make a plan. Our park ADRs are locked in, so I know the specific day(s) we have to get a FP+ for the top attractions... if we don't get that day then I'm not exactly sure what to do because getting a FP+ for another day causes a domino effect that'll require me to move whatever was already scheduled for that day.

This is the main frustration to me, to the extent that I almost went ahead and did the club level FP+ thing just so I wouldn't have to worry about it, but I'm travelling with some people who would not be able to pay that expense.

 

[DisneyKoyote]

This!!!

You book your ADRs around park hours that are subject to change (and most likely will / or hard ticket events will be added), which determine the parks you'll be doing those days. Then your FP window opens and everything is up in the air again. Good luck moving that BOG dinner reservation because you couldn't get decent MK FP rides / times that day.

omg yes exactly. a few weeks ago, i was contemplating switching epcot and AK days due to new ADRs we wanted. But i already had a FP for FOP and was not going to risk that ride. So we concluded we cannot switch anything and must stick to the original schedule. Once FPs are booked, no more flexibility.

 

[KayaWildfire]

I wish you could do your ADR's and FP's at the same time. We just did our fastpasses for our trip over Christmas and in booking them around our ADR's, there is definitely a couple of ADR's where I wonder why I thought the time I picked was a good idea.

 

[JakeAZ]

I almost went ahead and did the club level FP+ thing just so I wouldn't have to worry about it

I'm with you. Our week is Spring Break, so with the increased room costs, the math broke down to each additional FP being $67 (taking into account the room / extra FP pricing). I'm all for paying for convenience, but that's just too crazy. And there's no way the rest of our group would have been on board for it either.

 

[JakeAZ]

I wish you could do your ADR's and FP's at the same time

This is very logical

 

[rg35]

Wow going into the trip with that negative attitude will surely have an affect on your trip.

You don’t need to make Adrs for everyday. We don’t always have one every day, or we picked up quite a few our last trip, which was the end of July/beginning of August. We got crystal palace for lunch, cape May for dinner and coral reef and could have had others last minute.

You can always modify a fast pass or not use it and pick others up later. You can stop and smell the roses and not wait in long lines. Use the early hours or met yet, late hours. We love the parks late at night. The crowds drop off, plus it’s cooler and it doesn’t feel like the surface of the sun.

You can have fun and a great trip without any or that much planning. We’d sleep in late, go into the park use our fast passes leave and go back or to another park. Enjoy your trip

Your POV is perfectly fine for a small group but not relevant at all to a group of 12 traveling to WDW, which is what the OP is doing. You cannot be flexible with ADRs and FP+ reservations with such a large group. I have planned a trip to Disney for 16 people, and you need to have everything in order if you want to do things together.

 

[Kaleidodad]

This is the complaint! You can't be flexible once you book your ADRs and FP+, unless you don't care where you eat, what time you eat or what you ride.

I don't think anyone here expects to walk on the rides. We just want the ability to wake up on a "MK day" and say, "Wouldn't it be nice to go to AK today, instead of MK" That scenario just isn't possible without scrambling to find another ADR / FPs to swap what you already booked 60-180 days ago at MK.

As others have already said throughout this thread, you absolutely can be flexible, even on park day - as long as you aren't trying to last-minute get FPs for the most popular rides or reservations at the most popular restaurants, all while keeping a large party together. But you just can't expect a 12-person vacation to be as flexible or nimble as a single-family trip.

If a regular-size party decides one morning to do AK, they can! They could definitely find a good TS place to eat and do most of the rides (including FOP!). As my family has gone back again and again, and we haven't needed to see/do everything like when it was new to us, we do that more and more often. We have shown up impromptu at MK after lunch and still done almost the whole park, just going wherever the FP availability leads us.

Also, if you find that your plans have drastically changed after making FP reservations at 60 days, that is still more than enough time to rework your itinerary and make new ADRs if needed. Sure, maybe that means it's too late for a party of 12 at CRT, but if some meal or ride is super important for your trip, then eventually you'll have to make a decision and stick with it.

 

[JakeAZ]

If a regular-size party decides one morning to do AK, they can! They could definitely find a good TS place to eat and do most of the rides (including FOP!). As my family has gone back again and again, and we haven't needed to see/do everything like when it was new to us, we do that more and more often. We have shown up impromptu at MK after lunch and still done almost the whole park, just going wherever the FP availability leads us.

We are going the week of Spring Break. This is not possible for us.

But you just can't expect a 12-person vacation to be as flexible or nimble as a single-family trip.

I understand planning for 12 is harder than planning for 4. I'm on board with that. My beef is we want to hit the big rides. We want to hit the popular restaurants. In order to do that, we need to plan in advance and do our best to stick to that plan. We want to see / do as much as we can while we are there, while fully understanding we won't come close to doing everything. Showing up and seeing where the FastPass availability will take us will not work for us. That's great it works for you.

 

[DisneyKoyote]

As others have already said throughout this thread, you absolutely can be flexible, even on park day - as long as you aren't trying to last-minute get FPs for the most popular rides or reservations at the most popular restaurants, all while keeping a large party together. But you just can't expect a 12-person vacation to be as flexible or nimble as a single-family trip.

I think the majority of people who are okay with that flexibility are
i) people who go to Disney often, therefore they are okay with missing out on the top attractions/restaurants bc they will just do it next time
ii) people who do not really care about Disney, therefore couldn't care less what rides/restaurants are missed

If you don't fall into either of those categories (like me- love Disney but will not go back for a long time.. maybe 10 yrs), you cant afford to be that flexible and take the chances. So I'm not sure what % of the Disney crowd are considered 'repeat customers', but for those one-and-done groups, I do think it is difficult. Unless again like I said, you just don't care about Disney (like my friends- they don't even know FP exists because they've done zero research hahaa. but they'll go for a day if they happen to be in florida for other events)