The Current Disneyland Annual Pass Program Has Been Cancelled

[upritbass]

1) Every company _ever_ wants to make more money from fewer people. “Profit” is not a 4-letter word.
2) Smaller crowds are most definitely nicer for guests. That’s why we always schedule for low or mid-low season.
3) Nobody knows what will replace the AP program. Disney will let us know at the appropriate time. Be patient.

Heck, we would be happy right now if VGC opened with just shopping and dining. Unfortunately my crystal ball is broken and the Magic 8-ball keeps saying, “Ask again later”

 

[montreid]

@BilboWaggins - I'm with you on the disappointment. Using the analogy - DLR is hard capped and paying huge luxury taxes and has to make choices. Universal - has room under the cap and Knotts is a small market team.

DLR is international and many folk visit it while during SoCal Vacations. It's not a sole destination a la Orlando; but a significant add-on. Much like HK and Japan Disney.

With a severe limited capacity already set forward by the Gov at 25% when Orange County gets to YELLOW tier (still a pipe dream) -- what's would such a proposed bridge for APs be to retain while getting under the hard cap?

2021 will be transition for everyone and hopefully 2022 will see a return of at least some form of a pass that's viable for the masses.

 

[Kender]

It’s because the park is not an international destination the way that WDW is. If you could choose one park to visit on your big expensive trip, which would you choose? DL\DCA, or WDW, where it’s cheaper and you have most of what’s in California, plus more than double that? Unless they start making major changes and building huge new additions to DL, it won’t be able to compete.

I haven't checked the updated numbers in a year because pandemic, but attraction wise DLR and WDW are very close in number. DLR is just a much, much smaller footprint. I'm always shocked how little is in each park at WDW and how far apart things are (this is a huge crowd control help, though, so it can be a positive thing). For me, I find it frustrating and hate having to choose where I'm going to be because changing parks takes actual effort and another trip through bag check. At DLR I hop for food on a whim and it takes me minutes to get between parks lol.

On the flip side, though, I love that there's the space to run a marathon at WDW. There isn't even the space to really do a half marathon at DLR (you're lucky if 5 of the 13.1 miles are on park property).

DLR also offered a special 10 day ticket to NZ and Australia residents. I do agree, though, many of those coming from Europe tend to frequent WDW over DLR. But those closer to the west coast seem to go there. Shorter flights often win out plus whatever special offers exist for one's country.

 

[Pachinko]

Wow Kender, that is amazing and hard to believe. Had no idea that the number of attractions was even close, especially given that WDW probably has 3X the number of hotel rooms on property!

 

[bookwormde]

It has not gotten much attention since travel from abroad in not practical but 21 day passed have disappeared for those guests

 

[Kender]

Wow Kender, that is amazing and hard to believe. Had no idea that the number of attractions was even close, especially given that WDW probably has 3X the number of hotel rooms on property!

Crazy, right?! I'll be honest it shocked me too the first time I learned it because WDW is so massive. But those wide walkways and space between attractions are definitely so nice during crowded times.

WDW does have the room to expand, though, and that is definitely not something DLR has. There's been chatter over the years about a third gate at DLR (guess that's a dead idea for awhile) and where it could go. Space is much more limited in Anaheim for sure.

 

[azdisneylover]

Such sad news (AP program cancelled). We are/were AP people in AZ that would go to DL 2 times a year minimum and stay onsite, (GCH) 7-9 nights a stay. We are sad, but watching the way Disney is handling the pandemic (cutting cast members yet hanging on to their salaries and I know they halved their salaries for a heartbeat or two) and seen how Knotts is handling the same situation, we will wait to hear what Disney has to say and see if there is any value to the AP replacement then go from there. I do hope they will once again sell tickets longer than 5 days, as well as Maxpass, etc. Once Knotts is open, we will book a trip and go for a couple of days and visit family that still live in CA.
I do know Southern CA AP holders are the rock that Disneyland used to stay afloat during very hard times. It would be very wise of Disney to just remember the hard time. They were there for Disneyland. They are the hard core who will pay what ever to get into the parks. Many people have been hit hard by lockdowns and with income not coming in, budgets are tightening even tighter. Monies once Mickey earmarked for a trip to the parks is now keeping the lights on and food in the fridge. With all the cutting of live entertainment, how much of the Disney magic will remain? Knotts has managed to up their game and they continue to do so! Even though we love DL (dh and I were born and raised in SoCal and now in AZ) DL is now on the backburner for a few years, if ever. Our passes expired the beginning of October, and still haven't heard a thing! Some people have received emails, we haven't.
I hope and pray Disneyland will be able to open soon so the wonderful cast members can be back to work. Burns me up every time I think about the suits putting their salaries back up to 100% and laying off thousands of CMs. Ugh.
Wishing peace and good health to all. Disneyland is my place to just worry about what I am going to ride on next, what to eat and where is the bathroom! It definitely is a necessity of life.

 

[mom2rtk]

With all the cutting of live entertainment, how much of the Disney magic will remain?

I think we're all holding our collective breath on that one.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

If you could choose one park to visit on your big expensive trip, which would you choose? DL\DCA, or WDW, where it’s cheaper and you have most of what’s in California, plus more than double that? Unless they start making major changes and building huge new additions to DL, it won’t be able to compete.

Anecdotal but I grew up with Disneyland being our big expensive trip destination. When I had my son, I continued with Disneyland as my destination choice over WDW.

California has a lot to offer as a vacation destination entirely on ts own. Growing up we’d spend a day at Seaworld, the beach, visiting San Fran, the Santa Monica Pier, the Queen Mary, etc etc. There are lots of great tourist additions unique to CA we added into our trips that I don’t think (IMO) Florida can necessarily compete with. Or at the very least- doesn’t discount Disneyland as a big vacation destination because of all the things you can do in California along with your trip.

But I’m biased because I just love California and grew up always going there on vacation. Disneyland also has technically more attractions than WDW so while yes... you have four parks at WDW... you’re not getting that much more that you can’t get in DLR. Except maybe more walking and some water parks.

Not really weighing in one way or another on the AP debate but just speaking up for our park. It’s fantastic enough to be the sole purpose of a vacation destination for out of state travelers and for those that want it can easily add more CA tourist activities... all while probably continuing your stay in Anaheim. As a kid that’s what we did- we’d get our five day park tickets and sprinkle in CA activities between park days.

Don't get me wrong- we just did WDW and had a blast. The Disney bubble is great but I would argue they’re both great vacation places... not just WDW.

 

[StormyCA]

I agree with these past couple comments on capacity. This removes the necessity of Disneyland having to make a million+ special concessions for people who would have had an active AP but been unable to use it due to capacity limits. Doing away with all of the APs for now removes SO many future headaches and disappointments for all concerned--Disney and guests.

We're coming to the realization that even when Disneyland does open, the capacity limits and previous comments/restrictions by the governor there may result in us not being allowed to come from out-of-state and attend even if we wanted to pay the admisssion price (which we do!) It could very well be geographically limited to So Cal for a time, in which case Disney would have had to deal with extending passes even longer for those out of the preferred region, if they hadn't canceled all APs.

Eliminating APs right now for a year or so and reintroducing something later just makes so much sense on so many levels, even though I'm personally disappointed.

I wish we knew what their reopening plans are. Not "when" since I know that's not within Disney's control. But it would be nice to know who and what and from where, if they know that (they may not yet). We now have to completely rethink our 2021 travel plans, as I'm sure many of you do too. Do we hold out for one trip with the family to Disneyland in 2021? We'll have our AP refund amounts for my wife and me, and we still have the four 5-day parkhoppers with Maxpass we bought for the adult kids and our grandkids. So one trip is an option if we are allowed. Or maybe we move the trip to Disney World (Parkhoppers are through GAT so can get refunds or apply to DW). Or maybe just go non-Disney in 2021. Yeah, 1st world problems. One of the hardest things for me with COVID has been all the uncertainty and changing landscape that makes it hard to plan on anything.

I think DL has as many reopening 'plans' as Carter has pills. It's probably been 'if this, then that'-ed to death. And all of them are probably incompatible with the AP program as it is.

We're going to WDW in 2021. If and when DL reopens we're in the lucky position of being able to go at pretty much the drop of a hat (7 hour drive, retired, family in the area, no school-age kids) so we're making no plans at this point.

But we did just have our Yellowstone reservations for 2021 cancelled. That one will have to wait until 2022.

 

[WonkaKid]

Wonkakid, your point about the hotels having limited rooms is spot on.

Thank you . And thank you for not calling me WonkaBoy ;-)!

Some people seem to be suggesting that eliminating frequent local AP visitors will suddenly attract this entirely new crowd of customers to take their place. I don’t think so.

Neither do I. If they didn't value/need locals in droves, they wouldn't even consider offering memberships (if you'll pardon the expression ;-)).

What worries me most about any new membership system is cost.

Yup, I'm with you. I'd be surprised if memberships (see my snark above ;-)) weren't at least a third more expensive than comparable APs. As I mentioned in a previous post, friends and I always bemoan AP price increases (when APs were still a thing ;-)) but we'd always pay them. I have virtually no debt because -- aside from occasionally treating myself to cool sports/exotic cars and astonishingly inexpensive overseas trips -- I don't spend a lot. Disney is a priority for me. I also don't have a wife (really? How could a man like me be single? It defies belief! ;-)) or kids so my expenses are further minimized. I've been lucky in some ways. But not all .

 

[pinksand]

I'm sure Disney has the spend data of the different levels of passes. It knows how often each pass type attends, spends (uses discount), and distribution of zip codes.

This made me think of a point I've seen touched on but not really addressed - Disney must have a HUGE amount of data on AP'ers - how often they go, how much they spend, what they spend their money on, how far away they live, etc.
I would think they'd be reluctant to completely and permanently cut that spigot of valuable data off?

 

[DLgal]

Here is a thought that I hope Disney is considering. While there is a certain segment of the population that will literally RUN back to DL once it reopens, there may be a larger segment that has no desire to return anytime soon. I mean, we are approaching a year without the parks. I'm betting a lot of people are like "I don't miss it as much as I thought I would." They may actually have to entice people to come back after the first month or so passes and the uber fanatics have visited. I think this extended closure is teaching people to be happy with less of everything and to be a bit more selective with regards to their leisure time.

It will be interesting to see what the demand REALLY is. And, if they have to limit attendance to people within OC at first, I think they will really struggle to get people through the gates at the old ticket prices.

 

[montreid]

This made me think of a point I've seen touched on but not really addressed - Disney must have a HUGE amount of data on AP'ers - how often they go, how much they spend, what they spend their money on, how far away they live, etc.
I would think they'd be reluctant to completely and permanently cut that spigot of valuable data off?

Clearly they don't WANT to do this, but difficult choices and delayed quite a long time to decide this it is as close as the golden goose there is.

They have a math problem upon reopening. 25% capacity. 1M APs. - There's really no equation to make a pass equitable with that. Would a AP holder be happy to get 1 visit per month with their pass?

This isn't permanent either. And an opportunity to revamp AP 2.0 that matches capacity and wait times and even something with special events.

 

[bookwormde]

This made me think of a point I've seen touched on but not really addressed - Disney must have a HUGE amount of data on AP'ers - how often they go, how much they spend, what they spend their money on, how far away they live, etc.
I would think they'd be reluctant to completely and permanently cut that spigot of valuable data off?

you can bet they have been mining this data heavily and know what the per visit day ticket revenue is as well as other spending.
This data is likely the trigger due to some serious revenue weakness as compared to other park capacity related revenue, either the obvious or more subtle patterns.
I expect whatever form the replacement system takes it will be designed to maximize revenue while abandoning the areas that fall outside desired results

 

[mafpi]

So this is my dilema. Me and my oldest daughter have annual passes. I bought a so cal three day pass for my two minor kids. The plan was to take them with us for the three days, which we did twice. So they both have one day remaining. I know they can still use their one day, but now they have no one to take them since they are minors and my annual pass got cancelled. I have little to no interest in buying a day pass. Are there other options for me. I’m sure I’m not the only one with this circumstance.

 

[upritbass]

Have you tried calling the AP Refund hotline to ask a CM? That would be the first step. Let us know what happens, because you probably aren't alone in this situation.

 

[BlueRibbon]

Clearly they don't WANT to do this, but difficult choices and delayed quite a long time to decide this it is as close as the golden goose there is.

They have a math problem upon reopening. 25% capacity. 1M APs. - There's really no equation to make a pass equitable with that. Would a AP holder be happy to get 1 visit per month with their pass?

This isn't permanent either. And an opportunity to revamp AP 2.0 that matches capacity and wait times and even something with special events.

I do think its a good idea to start fresh. Things got really crazy in the parks when the monthly installment plans started, and with all the different types of grandfathered passes, it probably just became untenable. Back when I got my first AP in 1990, it was close to $400 when the single day ticket was $27.50, and a SoCal special allowed people to get in for $20. This was before the SoCal APs which came out in 1993? And were were $99. But thinking back to 1990, APs were NOT cheap. You had to go over 11 times to make it worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if they raised the prices back to that type of level.

A huge concern for them is also demand. If the crowds at Downtown Disney are any indicator, there is still a HUGE desire to be on Disneyland Resort property, and the crowds would overwhelm any system they could put in place. What gets me though is the possibility of having limited/capped attendance when Disneyland opens. From what we've seen so far from CA state gov't, Disneyland isn't going to open until the vast majority of SoCal is vaccinated, and the positivity rate gets so low, you'd have to wonder why social distancing and masks are even a thing anymore.

 

[Kender]

I do think its a good idea to start fresh. Things got really crazy in the parks when the monthly installment plans started, and with all the different types of grandfathered passes, it probably just became untenable. Back when I got my first AP in 1990, it was close to $400 when the single day ticket was $27.50, and a SoCal special allowed people to get in for $20. This was before the SoCal APs which came out in 1993? And were were $99. But thinking back to 1990, APs were NOT cheap. You had to go over 11 times to make it worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if they raised the prices back to that type of level.

The data I'm finding says APs in 1990 were $165, not $400. SoCal pass was introduced in 2002, not 1993. Says they were $99, though.

The only grandfathered AP related things I'm aware of were:
SoCal AP
Parking pass (which could be added also when downgrading from an AP that had it)
PhotoPass on Sig AP

So only one actual pass, an add on, and a perk.

 

[DLgal]

I do think its a good idea to start fresh. Things got really crazy in the parks when the monthly installment plans started, and with all the different types of grandfathered passes, it probably just became untenable. Back when I got my first AP in 1990, it was close to $400 when the single day ticket was $27.50, and a SoCal special allowed people to get in for $20. This was before the SoCal APs which came out in 1993? And were were $99. But thinking back to 1990, APs were NOT cheap. You had to go over 11 times to make it worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if they raised the prices back to that type of level.

A huge concern for them is also demand. If the crowds at Downtown Disney are any indicator, there is still a HUGE desire to be on Disneyland Resort property, and the crowds would overwhelm any system they could put in place. What gets me though is the possibility of having limited/capped attendance when Disneyland opens. From what we've seen so far from CA state gov't, Disneyland isn't going to open until the vast majority of SoCal is vaccinated, and the positivity rate gets so low, you'd have to wonder why social distancing and masks are even a thing anymore.

I bought my first annual pass, the Premium AP (DL and DCA, no blackouts) in 2001.

It cost $199.