The Running Thread -- 2022

All the watch talk…..

I have little wrists and wear it as my daily watch so I have a Fenix 6s. ”S“ refers to the diameter size of the watch. I have the solar version, but only because I liked that color the most 🤣 The solar is pretty useless IMO.
 
OK, your perspective is very helpful. Being honest, his writing style is challenging for me. I find myself re-reading paragraphs and looking up definitions a lot to try to make sense of what he is trying to say.
The mileage is tolerable, I have not been injured, and I have the time for 30 mpw. I'll crunch some numbers on the next level up and see what the time commitment works out to for me. Knowing the mileage requirements will increase some as the plan progresses, my inclination is to start at the 30 mpw knowing I may bump it up on a future cycle. I haven't hit my ceiling for sure but I'm not in any rush to crash into it and I want to leave time and energy for my other activities.

If you need any help writing it out let me know. I've got the Daniels book, and am pretty adept at translating his writing style into a training plan that's easier to follow.
 


As I lay here in bed unable to walk with my blisters (I’d post pictures, but I’m sure it would lead to nothing good haha), I am dreaming of what’s next and possible redemption. Once I can use my feet again, my first goal is to lose weight as I am sure my weight does not help me in any way (I’m 5’8” and about 225-230 lbs). It’s not my highest weight (that was 245 pre-pandemic) but I know losing a significant amount would help me feel better— mentally, physically, etc. I know that nutrition matters most here and that’s where I’ll struggle I’m sure. I am definitely a sugar addict. If it seems like I’m making progress here once registration comes, then I might sign up for another Goofy or maybe Dopey for the anniversary. I don’t know.
For the summer, I have a sprint triathlon at the end of July and an Olympic triathlon at the end of August. I will definitely need to improve my swimming for the Olympic distance and hope to improve my running so I can maintain intervals the whole time on tired legs. I love triathlons more than just running (cycling is my fav), so I am excited for this. I wish there was a Disney Tri! Haha.

Back when Disney allowed other race directors to host races on their property Ironman had a 70.3 race there. The race itself is still going but is now run in Haines City which is very close. I've done trips to FL to do non-Disney races followed by some park days so while not exactly a Disney Tri you can make it part of a Disney trip.
 
Now that I've officially accomplished my 2021 goals, I'm ready to share my goals for 2022.

Like a lot of you, 2020 was a bit of a disruption so when 2021 started I just wanted to get back to running regularly. My local running store was hosting a 1000mi challenge which was enough to keep me consistent but not at risk of injury so that became my primary goal. I officially ran my 1000th mile on Dec 12, with over two weeks to spare.

At some point during the year, my extended family started planning a trip to Disney for Jan 9-12. Once Disney announced the races were returning, I set myself a goal to train and make it to the starting line for the half marathon. I'm happy to say that goal was completed last weekend. 😁

So what's on my mind for 2022?
- I've signed up for the 1000 mile challenge again so consistency will be important
- I'd like to set a new HM PR (<1:50:49). I'm still not quite at the fitness level I was in 2017/2018 but I'm getting close. Plus, I didn't run any HM during that time so my PR is actually from 2016.
- Reintroduce some cross training into my life. This has always been a struggle for me but has been especially difficult since all of our exercise equipment has been in storage for 18 months while we wait for our new home. We're scheduled to move next month so I'm optimistic about this being more convenient but will still take some more dedication on my part.
- Last but not least, train for the 2023 WDW Marathon.
 
It's a fantastic question. At its core, the question is, "How do I get faster?"

First thing I'd do is determine reasonable expectations. Based on the research I've read, and a small collection of data from runners here on the DIS, an average expectation is a 20-30% increase in VDOT from your first race. So go here (link) and type in your first race. It'll give you a VDOT value, like 30.8 for someone who runs their first race as a 30 min 5k. From there, multiply that value by 1.2 to 1.3. So a person with a 30.8 gets a value of 36.9-40. I'd then go back into the VDOT calculator and find what 5k equals a 36.9-40 value (25:50-24:05). So a reasonable expectation is that someone who started off as a 30:00 min 5k runner could become maximally a 24:05-25:50 runner if they see an average response to training in their lifetime. Now, there are obvious caveats to this. There are people who respond more and less to training over their lifetimes. From the limited data from the DIS, we saw some runners do thousands of miles of training and years of effort, and improve by 5%. We saw others do similar volume and similar time and improve by 74%. So an individual's response will vary from the average response. The average just gives you a good general idea.

Next, the real question after having expectations is how to achieve that increase in speed over time. There are a couple of ways:

1) Consistency. Those who can put in good consistent efforts over time without being injured using appropriate training will see better long term gains. It's not a surprising answer, but it's true.

2) Endurance. Despite what you may think, one of the best ways to increase your overall speed (or short distance PRs like a 5k/10k) is with better endurance. Better endurance comes from a good balanced training plan, and generally speaking, lots of miles and time spent training. So if you've been doing 4-5 hrs of training per week, and you've handled the workload well, not been injured, etc. then see what doing 7-8 hrs of training per week could yield for you. In the absence of injury, the inclusion of more time spent training is one of the easiest ways to increase overall speed. Each of us has a unique cut point in which our bodies tend not to be able to handle more training, even if it's ideal training. For some, that limit is 6-7 hrs, for others maybe 9-10 hrs, and for some resilient runners they do 14-15 hrs per week. I work with a runner that consistently puts in 12-15 hrs of running per week and continues to put in good training sessions without being injured. He's a rare bird in being able to handle that kind of volume. But the data bears it out, that he's at his best when he's doing what I consider an elite level of volume.

Here's my data in a response to a change in volume in my training:

View attachment 638291

From 2012 to mid-2015, I was typically doing about 800-1100 miles a year. So that breaks down to about 66-92 miles a month, and during my last marathon training cycle in early 2015 I was doing 90-115 miles per month (looks to be about 16 hrs per month). My VDOT hovered around 41 as a peak (23:35 5k). In mid-2015, I changed to Hansons which had me doing 200-230 miles per month (looks to be about 33 hrs per month). My VDOT increased to 45.7 (21:32 5k) after a single training cycle. So about a 9-11% increase in fitness by increasing my overall volume of training.

I spent years at the training volume, (mostly doing variations of Hansons training) and didn't see much of an increase up to Jan 2017. I ended up doing as much as 290 miles in a month. So that initial jump was what made the biggest increase. After that I went from 45.7 to 47 (21:00 5k) in about a little over a year.

3) True speed training that touches all over the pace spectrum. Lastly, comes good tried and true speed training. For me, it was the Daniels 5k/10k training found in his 3rd edition book. At that point in time when I started that training program, I had done 7500 career miles. I didn't expect to see many more gains in overall fitness. But his training plan covered paces that I didn't normally do. Run of the mill speed plans have your traditional 5k intervals (12x400, 8x600, 6x800, 4x1200 and 3x1600). But the Daniels plan did pacing at Mile paces, at VO2max pacing (near 3k), and at Lactate Threshold. Paces I had never worked with before that bracketed the traditional 5k pace speed workouts. And the response I saw off of a single training plan again blew my mind. I went from a VDOT of 47 to 51.4 (21:00 to 19:29 5k) or another 8-11% gain in fitness. So that's my recommendation. Try a speed based plan like Daniels 5k/10k that touches lots of different areas of the pace spectrum.

You can see since that training plan in 2017, I haven't improved much. I've seen my endurance gains from the near doubling of volume, and now the incorporation of a larger swath of training paces has yielded much the same results over the last five years. One caveat to that is I spent much of mid-2018 to mid 2021 doing a combination of run+bike+strength. Despite a massive increase in overall training volume, it did not lead to any increase in fitness. So I'm back to running more like I was between 2015-2018, and hoping with tweaks here and there to see if I can continue to push my personal envelope.
Thanks for all the information!
 


Better late to the party than never, right?

2021 Goals:
ATTQOTD:
It feels like 2021 will be a year of change for our family, but I’d like to:
-continue to run consistently and injury free Yes! A few little bothers that I took a few days off from, but nothing major.
-complete an “in person” race I started! But it got canceled mid-race due to lightning.
-run more outside/ more stroller runs Eh... Some, but should do more. The treadmill during nap time is the most convent thing right now.
-return to drinking 100oz water daily (holidays killed this... pass the coffee!) Good days and bad days... said as I'm on my 3rd cup of coffee...

After coming off marathon weekend and not sure what the year has in store, I don't have any huge running goals for 2022.
2022 Running Goals:
-Continue consistent and injury-free running (always #1)
-Add more cross-training
-Get a friend or family member into running, so I have someone to run races with ;)
 
I hadn't been following the POT time change nuances because I knew I wasn't close, but now I remember just HOW not close I am! According to that calculator the best I can hope for is a 2:25 so yeah, it makes no sense for me to kill myself for a Dopey POT. Now, there may be other reasons to go for it, for it won't be for that!

Agree that there may be lots of other reasons to do it anyway, but would also say don't give up on it helping for Disney. You never know what RD may do for the races next year and they could go back to their traditional POT requirements or something in between. Would hate to say "well never mind" and then find out they changed back. Worst case, you achieve it in the spring, Disney keeps it's current requirements, but you're still set up for an even faster race in the fall!
 
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? @DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?
 
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? @DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?

I'm not running at all until either tomorrow or Saturday but I'm not sure when I'll begin "training" for anything again. I want to take advantage of the marathon fitness and run some fast late winter and spring races with an attempt at a 10-mil PR at Cherry Blossom in April. It will probably be the end of January before I start to get back to anything other than easy miles.
 
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? @DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?
I’ve been going on walks, but I think my first run will probably be next week sometime. After such a long training season, running was starting to feel like a chore at the end, so I think a week or two off will be good physically and mentally.
 
QOTD:
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?

ATTQOTD:
I was walking normally yesterday, which shocked me. Even stairs were ok. I'm starting my lifting program on Monday, and 30min walks on the treadmill, moving back to low-mileage EA pacing on Thursday. I know that if I give myself much more than a week off I have a hard time getting started back up and 2 weeks off easily becomes a month off. I'm moving into maintenance mode for a couple of months, and not actively "training" for an event. Training will probably happen when I feel comfortable getting back outside to run, in late March or early April.
 
2022 Running Goals:
-...
-Get a friend or family member into running, so I have someone to run races with ;)

I hope you can make this happen for yourself! My husband actually got me into running then he stopped! He sort of picks it up from time to time but doesn't run consistently anymore. I keep urging him along so I have someone to do these things with me; having intermittent success. I hope it works out!
 
QOTD:


ATTQOTD:
I was walking normally yesterday, which shocked me. Even stairs were ok. I'm starting my lifting program on Monday, and 30min walks on the treadmill, moving back to low-mileage EA pacing on Thursday. I know that if I give myself much more than a week off I have a hard time getting started back up and 2 weeks off easily becomes a month off.
I can't WAIT to start lifting once again. During my taper, I stopped lifting in the last two weeks before the marathon and my body has missed the workouts. Personally, I'm struggling with restraining myself from starting to run again so I don't think that it will be difficult to get started after two weeks off.
 
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? @DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?

From an aches and pain perspective, I was back to normal yesterday - which might be why I started thinking this might not be my "one and done" Dopey after all. I feel like I could run today but I'm going to hold off until sometime next week. I've got a 10k and Half in May and I want to set a PB for the 10k. I'm shifting from endurance to speed and think I need the extra time off to fully recover.
 
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? @DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?

I started back with a 4 mile short, easy run with no pace goal last night. I'll run the rest of this week that way, varying mileage a bit. Next week I'll run at my @DopeyBadger EA pace for most of the week and then return to my normal pacing profile the week after. I've only got 11 weeks until my next race, which is a big A race, so I have to get back into the groove quickly. It's worth noting, though, that I really didn't push myself at Dopey, knowing this was coming. All 4 of my races were run in the EA - EB pace range with the marathon being the fastest.
 
I am reading a lot of these posts and I think everyone has made it way too complicated with Daniels charts and Hanson's and Steve Magnus, etc. I am a college coach. Had people come in super slow and end up decent. Had many All-Americans. Do they need to follow Daniels' charts to a "t" and make sure their threshold runs are not too fast and not too slow... not really. It is actually pretty simple and I have a woman I currently train who will be gunning for 1:20 for the Houston Half Marathon this coming weekend. I would give the same advice to someone trying to break 2:30 in the same race...This would be a STARTING point:
Sundays - do a long run of at least 10 miles. Doesn't matter the pace. Just make sure you can at least run the whole thing. Not run/walk it... run it. You can take a quick water break if you need to during the run, but get a good steady run in.
Monday - a "recovery" day from that run. So a 5 miler. Same deal, doesn't matter pace. Whatever pace you feel comfortable doing. At the end of the run, either pick it up the last mile, or do 6x200 on a track with a walk back recovery to do some quick leg turnover.
Tuesday - Always Tempo Tuesday! 1 mile warm up, then 3-8 miles at Tempo pace (and by Tempo, it's easiest to just say a hard sustained effort, where you can say a couple of words if you needed to, but not a whole conversation with someone while you are running). Depending on your fitness level that may only be 3 miles and if you have been training for awhile and are fit, go for up to 8. 1-2 mile cooldown and easy pace.
Wednesday - another "recovery" day from the run. 5-8 miles depending on how you feel from the day prior.
Thursday - Fartlek... 1 mile warm up, then 5 minutes of a hard effort followed by 5 minutes of an easy effort... continuous off and on like that for an hour. As you get fitter, that 5 minutes hard will get you farther!
Friday - another "recovery" day 5-8 miles
Saturday - typically at least 7 miles, but if you feel it will poop you out too much for the next day's long run, then do a little less.

This is kind of the beginner level stuff. If you are feeling good on recovery days, run a little faster. As you get in better shape add in a mile on each day. The woman I am training does a 17 mile long run on Sundays now and anywhere from 70-80 miles a week. Pretty much follows this same sort of pattern every week. Sometimes we do a faster "steady state" run for 8-10 miles instead of a tempo. Sometimes instead of a Fartlek she might do mile repeats on the track, or on a trail. It just depends on the week and what her work schedule looks like, or if the weather is too hot (we are in Texas). So, I think, without overthinking things, this is a good beginner schedule to follow without having to put too much thought into what you are going to do for training, etc. If you want to know more, go ahead and DM me and I can tell you something more specific to what you are trying to accomplish.
 
We are all now four days post-marathon and I am quite surprised that my ankles and legs have bounced back this quickly and I am walking normally once again? How about the rest of you? @DopeyBadger based upon the Hansons Method, I am going to be conservative and wait for two weeks before I start training again. How about yourself and the rest of the Dis RunDisney community? How long are you all waiting until you begin training?

I have a physical therapy check-in appointment on Monday so I'm holding myself to no running (and probably no walking) until then. My feet are pretty much back to where they were pre-race (which is to say good, but not 100%) and I never really had any other serious pains so I think that I will be good to go. My PT recommends trying some light yoga as part of recovery so I'm going to try that. His theory is that any lingering ouchy spots will show up then and tell you that your body isn't quite ready to run yet.

I have been trolling racing calendars, looking for my next goal. The pickings are pretty sparse right now for anything longer than a 5K. I'm assuming that a lot of events are holding off to see what happens with COVID.
 
I am reading a lot of these posts and I think everyone has made it way too complicated with Daniels charts and Hanson's and Steve Magnus, etc. I am a college coach. Had people come in super slow and end up decent. Had many All-Americans. Do they need to follow Daniels' charts to a "t" and make sure their threshold runs are not too fast and not too slow... not really. It is actually pretty simple and I have a woman I currently train who will be gunning for 1:20 for the Houston Half Marathon this coming weekend. I would give the same advice to someone trying to break 2:30 in the same race...This would be a STARTING point:
Sundays - do a long run of at least 10 miles. Doesn't matter the pace. Just make sure you can at least run the whole thing. Not run/walk it... run it. You can take a quick water break if you need to during the run, but get a good steady run in.
Monday - a "recovery" day from that run. So a 5 miler. Same deal, doesn't matter pace. Whatever pace you feel comfortable doing. At the end of the run, either pick it up the last mile, or do 6x200 on a track with a walk back recovery to do some quick leg turnover.
Tuesday - Always Tempo Tuesday! 1 mile warm up, then 3-8 miles at Tempo pace (and by Tempo, it's easiest to just say a hard sustained effort, where you can say a couple of words if you needed to, but not a whole conversation with someone while you are running). Depending on your fitness level that may only be 3 miles and if you have been training for awhile and are fit, go for up to 8. 1-2 mile cooldown and easy pace.
Wednesday - another "recovery" day from the run. 5-8 miles depending on how you feel from the day prior.
Thursday - Fartlek... 1 mile warm up, then 5 minutes of a hard effort followed by 5 minutes of an easy effort... continuous off and on like that for an hour. As you get fitter, that 5 minutes hard will get you farther!
Friday - another "recovery" day 5-8 miles
Saturday - typically at least 7 miles, but if you feel it will poop you out too much for the next day's long run, then do a little less.

This is kind of the beginner level stuff. If you are feeling good on recovery days, run a little faster. As you get in better shape add in a mile on each day. The woman I am training does a 17 mile long run on Sundays now and anywhere from 70-80 miles a week. Pretty much follows this same sort of pattern every week. Sometimes we do a faster "steady state" run for 8-10 miles instead of a tempo. Sometimes instead of a Fartlek she might do mile repeats on the track, or on a trail. It just depends on the week and what her work schedule looks like, or if the weather is too hot (we are in Texas). So, I think, without overthinking things, this is a good beginner schedule to follow without having to put too much thought into what you are going to do for training, etc. If you want to know more, go ahead and DM me and I can tell you something more specific to what you are trying to accomplish.

Sounds great if you're working with young, energetic and competitive college kids that have time to run 7 days a week. Not so much if you're an adult with family considerations and obligations or a bit older with dodgy joints that need recovery. Also, from my perspective, your "simpler" methodology is a lot more complicated than a lot of the plans that we use.

Our "complicated' plans run the gamut from tried and true standardized methodology from Galloway, Higdon and Hanson all the way up to customized plans that incorporate elements from one or more of those philosophies tailored to allow us to meet our goals while meeting our other obligations or specific needs.

I would also never put forth a 7 day/week training plan as a "good beginner schedule". You are offering up a great recipe for overuse and overtraining injuries.
 

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