The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[anricat]

Also the temperature checks is got to be the absolute biggest waste of time and effort of anything with this pandemic. Most people who get infected with COVID don't even get a fever. Many don't even have symptoms. And even if they do, the fever is gone by taking a couple of Advil. It's stupid. Of course, that's only one of the stupid things that have now become part of the new normal.

I thought this too until I was waiting for my drink at Starbucks a few weeks ago when an employee came in and took his temp. It beeped and he looked at it, alarmed. He took it again, it beeped. I didn't see the number, but the display was red. Then another employee came over (he looked supervisor-ish). There was a discussion, the temp was taken again. (Meanwhile, they seemed short staffed and I still had no drink.) There was more discussion and I heard a few words here and there ("home" and "test" among them). The employee went outside and sat down. It was a cool day. He looked nervous. He was still out there clutching his green apron when I left. I don't know the end result, but I sort of had second thoughts about temperature checks at that moment. Maybe it only catches one in a thousand (?), but given how many people one person can potentially infect, maybe it's worthwhile.

That said, if DCL is requiring guests over 18 to be vaccinated, it's probably worthless.

 

[n2mm]

My state’s health commissioner is recommending the vaccine for those who previously had COVID-19. Levels of antibodies produced by “natural immunity” vary and are not considered to be effective against variants.

must be the same here. She told them she had it a month earlier, but they said no problem and she still got the shot. Same for her parents. Both had covid and had rough time, but still got their shots a month later with no problems. ❤

 

[DCLMP]

It wouldn't be moving; it would be expanding. Also, it's not Taiwan; it's an independent company called TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company). Starting fabs in the US is very expensive and difficult though, due to environmental concerns.

I don't know anything about semiconductors. I just know they something to do with the rental car shortage. If you need to rent a car don't wait until the last minute. I learned that last week.

 

[tidefan]

I don't know anything about semiconductors. I just know they something to do with the rental car shortage. If you need to rent a car don't wait until the last minute. I learned that last week.

Well, there are more things going on here. A lot of the rental car companies sold off inventory at the beginning of the pandemic to raise cash. Most notably was Hertz, as they were in bankruptcy and needed a lot of cash. They sold off a lot of their cars.

 

[DCLMP]

This is EXACTLY what I was expecting and hoping to see when cruises resume!

Covid tests, temp checks, and daily health screening. Is that the fun stuff or is there more. Sounds like a 3 day trip to the hospital.

 

[TestingH2O]

I sort of had second thoughts about temperature checks at that moment. Maybe it only catches one in a thousand (?), but given how many people one person can potentially infect, maybe it's worthwhile.

And, even if it doesn’t catch COVID, maybe it catches other things. Look at how low cold and flu rates were this year.

I want to be in a post-pandemic world as much as the next person, but gosh, I loved not getting sick this winter, not having to manage a sick kid, and not having sick students. If we can keep some of the benefits of people not being at work/school moving forward, I’d be thrilled.

 

[TestingH2O]

Disney Cruise Line have released new information for the UK summer 2021 sailings which includes information about vaccines and testing

Disney Magic At Sea Health And Safety Information Updated April 23

• COVID-19 Vaccination: In order to sail, Guests 18 years of age and older must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, as defined by the National Health Service (NHS). The NHS currently defines “fully vaccinated” as 7 days after the final dose. Disney Cruise Line will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to show proof of this vaccination status.
• Pre-Trip COVID-19 Testing: Guests under 18 years of age are not required to be vaccinated, but must provide proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test result (paid for by the Guest) taken between 5 days and 24 hours prior to the date you set sail. Disney Cruise Line has secured a special discounted rate through a third-party vendor for PCR tests and will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to complete and submit their test results. Guests may obtain their PCR test from the third-party vendor or any qualified testing supplier.
• Embarkation COVID-19 Testing: All Guests, including those who have been vaccinated, are required to undergo an antigen COVID-19 rapid test administered by a third party in the terminal prior to boarding. Anyone testing positive will undergo a second test to verify the results. All tests administered at the terminal will be at the expense of Disney Cruise Line. Guests with positive COVID-19 test results, as well as those in their travel party, will be denied boarding.
• Temperature Checks and Questionnaires: Daily temperature checks and health questionnaires are required for all Guests and Crew Members.

Nothing too surprising in those rules.

 

[Mousequake]

I feel like this does not take into account those of us who already had Covid. Studies, so far, show natural protection as good as , or maybe even better, than the vaccines. If I already had Covid (luckily it was mild), and I now have protection, it is not warranted for me to get the vaccine. Natural infection from past diseases has meant not being able to spread it to others as well.

CDC recommendations are for those previously infected to get the vaccine:

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again. Learn more about why getting vaccinated is a safer way to build protection than getting infected.

If you were treated for COVID-19 with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

Experts are still learning more about how long vaccines protect against COVID-19 in real-world conditions. CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

Speaking of experts always learning more, there are also new studies that suggest that antibodies produced by natural infection are not as effective as those produced by the vaccine:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...iffers-from-natural-SARS-CoV-2-infection.aspx

 

[mevelandry]

Covid tests, temp checks, and daily health screening. Is that the fun stuff or is there more. Sounds like a 3 day trip to the hospital.

The Covid Test takes less than two minutes and will happen only once? Temp checks takes less than a minute. I request health screenings to all our clients every day, it also takes less than a minute and I am doing it every morning when I go to work. *Yawn... Routine!*

Spending 15 minutes (or less) every 24 hours checking my health won’t ruin my vacation.

 

[jamescanuck2001]

I want to be in a post-pandemic world as much as the next person, but gosh, I loved not getting sick this winter, not having to manage a sick kid, and not having sick students. If we can keep some of the benefits of people not being at work/school moving forward, I’d be thrilled.

No more shaking hands, kissing the spouse and kids only, and keeping the COVID hygiene practices is all it would take! Until the next aerosol transmissible virus shows up.

 

[DCLMP]

Is their going to be entertainment, kids clubs, and trivia between all the health screenings?

 

[whatlevelisthis]

Disney's UK cruise guidelines are very interesting. They're being extra cautious (as I trusted they would be). Their goal was clearly to make sure the Disney Magic does not have a damaging "Major Outbreak on Disney Ship!" headline in the news this summer.

Yes, a lot of the restrictions seem excessive, but COVID is a sneaky virus, so you need a multi-layered "net" to catch it. It's like Swiss cheese-- there're always holes no matter what risk mitigation strategy you use, but the more layers, the less likely the holes will line up and the less likely the virus will slip through:

• "Level 1" safety net: Vaccine requirement for 18+ (or negative PCR test for children) is the first major reducer of risk of the virus being carried aboard
• "Level 2" net: PLUS, everyone will be tested at embarkation, given vaccines are only 70-90% effective. That'll reduce risk further, to catch the rare vaccinated passenger (or unvaccinated child) who might have gotten infected a couple days before embarkation.
• "Level 3" net: PLUS, maybe someone got infected in the port city right before embarkation, and so the rapid antigen test didn't catch that person at embarkation because it takes a few days for the virus to incubate. So, Disney uses a litany of other admittedly more intrusive tools as the final safety net---- masks, mandatory daily temperature checks, social distancing, staggered dining times, etc. There's also more passive tools, such as the upgrading of the ventilation/air filters onboard, which I was glad to see. The removal of paper menus and other items and banning Fish Extenders seems like overkill to me, especially now we know fomites isn't a major transmission route, but again, Disney is pulling out all the stops to make sure there is no outbreak this summer.

Personally, I don't think I'd want to sail on one of these UK cruises because I'd rather enjoy a closer to normal experience, which is why I booked my Disney cruise for Summer 2022. In particular, I'd prefer not to wear a mask and not deal with all the staggered dining / reduced capacity theater times, etc. But, I can understand why Disney is being extra cautious this summer, and then perhaps they'll start to loosen some of the restrictions later this year / next year. i.e., I'm hoping that this summer, Disney can prove that their three pronged safety nets (what I call "Levels 1-3" above) are more than sufficient to prevent an outbreak onboard. AND then, perhaps they can loosen restrictions to just require Level 1 and 2 later this year and next. Personally, if the cost of an unmasked "normal" cruise is for Disney to require vaccines + rapid testing at embarkation + daily temperature checks, then that's a totally fine tradeoff for me.

In short, I'm happy to see DCL implementing a vaccine requirement, plus it's good to see they are taking everything very seriously. I'm hoping they keep the vaccine requirement for next year, if doing so allows them to return other aspects of the cruise back to normal (i.e., no masking).

Now, for those who don't want to get vaccinated, perhaps they can make exceptions for those who can prove they've already had COVID, such as presenting results from an antibody test. Or, I'm just brainstorming wildly here, but for passengers who don't want to be vaccinated, maybe they'd be allowed to board, but they're required to do a rapid test every day.

 

[soniam]

That's true. I was referring to the large capacity players - at the scale of vaccine production for comparison. Intel's capacity, for example, is just a quarter of Samsung's and about 25% of it is still not in the US. It is also 100% captive at the moment, meaning it doesn't help with the shortage. None of the big 5 - Samsung, TSMC, Micron, SK Hynix, and Kioxia - have much in the US. And certainly nothing of the bleeding edge, such as 5nm.

The demand and supply issues are coincidentally highly correlated to the pandemic. As you pointed out, supply chains are stretched due to lockdowns, while the demand for all sorts of components is through the roof. Very similar story on the vaccine side.

The difference is, Pfizer can produce in the US and charge the price it needs under patent protection. The foundries in Asia, however, wouldn't be able to compete on cost if they moved production to the US and suddenly the demand and supply issues went away.

I think the info you have on Samsung's fabs in the US is incorrect. However, I don't know what is always public knowledge and what is company confidential

The Covid Test takes less than two minutes and will happen only once? Temp checks takes less than a minute. I request health screenings to all our clients every day, it also takes less than a minute and I am doing it every morning when I go to work. *Yawn... Routine!*

Spending 15 minutes (or less) every 24 hours checking my health won’t ruin my vacation.

We have been taking our temps everyday since March of last year, even on vacation. It may not find anything, but it's a trivial thing to do.

And I know you love wearing masks. You left that out.

I actually have found that wearing a mask makes my face more supple and moist. I think my laugh lines are diminishing

 

[Intr3pid]

Disney Cruise Line have released new information for the UK summer 2021 sailings which includes information about vaccines and testing

Disney Magic At Sea Health And Safety Information Updated April 23

• COVID-19 Vaccination: In order to sail, Guests 18 years of age and older must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, as defined by the National Health Service (NHS). The NHS currently defines “fully vaccinated” as 7 days after the final dose. Disney Cruise Line will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to show proof of this vaccination status.
• Pre-Trip COVID-19 Testing: Guests under 18 years of age are not required to be vaccinated, but must provide proof of a negative COVID-19 PCR test result (paid for by the Guest) taken between 5 days and 24 hours prior to the date you set sail. Disney Cruise Line has secured a special discounted rate through a third-party vendor for PCR tests and will contact Guests prior to sailing with instructions on how to complete and submit their test results. Guests may obtain their PCR test from the third-party vendor or any qualified testing supplier.
• Embarkation COVID-19 Testing: All Guests, including those who have been vaccinated, are required to undergo an antigen COVID-19 rapid test administered by a third party in the terminal prior to boarding. Anyone testing positive will undergo a second test to verify the results. All tests administered at the terminal will be at the expense of Disney Cruise Line. Guests with positive COVID-19 test results, as well as those in their travel party, will be denied boarding.
• Temperature Checks and Questionnaires: Daily temperature checks and health questionnaires are required for all Guests and Crew Members.

This is very reassuring. I think if they pull this off successfully, the CDC in the US may have a change of heart after all. These are better than the 'simulated voyages' they are looking for.

And I also hope the measures remain in place until everyone has been given at least one booster.

 

[BruinEd03]

If that's what they are going to do when they restart in the states, they are going to have a lot of cancellations. Other than die hard cruisers, who's going to pay essentially the same prices as before for this experience? Plus, even with all this testing and mandatory vaccines, they will still require masks. They will still have limited activities.

Also the temperature checks is got to be the absolute biggest waste of time and effort of anything with this pandemic. Most people who get infected with COVID don't even get a fever. Many don't even have symptoms. And even if they do, the fever is gone by taking a couple of Advil. It's stupid. Of course, that's only one of the stupid things that have now become part of the new normal.

Just speculation, but I don't think the goal for these cruises is to fill up the ship - they are already going to operate at reduced capacity. I think the goal is to have the most strict policies possible and hope that there are no issues. Then hope that the U.S. sees this as a positive step forward and allow cruising. Then, DCL loosens restrictions as time passes and they see what's beneficial/not beneficial. This was a similar path forward in Disney World. Note that started opening up more restaurants later on, started increasing capacity, increasing hours, etc. Then they leveraged that to push hard for the opening of Disneyland by saying "See? There hasn't been a mass outbreak at Disney World, we can open safely in Disneyland." It took a while, and a lot of public pressure, but it eventually worked.

My guess is that DCL would be just happy if there's 10 to 20% capacity on the first cruise, and approach maybe 50% capacity later on. As for people not wanting to spend money on it, I'm guessing there are a lot of people going stir crazy from the last year. In addition, it will be an opportunity to have a totally different cruising experience with less crowds during the summer holiday season. From a novelty perspective, people might try it.

 

[DCLMP]

Just speculation, but I don't think the goal for these cruises is to fill up the ship - they are already going to operate at reduced capacity. I think the goal is to have the most strict policies possible and hope that there are no issues. Then hope that the U.S. sees this as a positive step forward and allow cruising. Then, DCL loosens restrictions as time passes and they see what's beneficial/not beneficial. This was a similar path forward in Disney World. Note that started opening up more restaurants later on, started increasing capacity, increasing hours, etc. Then they leveraged that to push hard for the opening of Disneyland by saying "See? There hasn't been a mass outbreak at Disney World, we can open safely in Disneyland." It took a while, and a lot of public pressure, but it eventually worked.

My guess is that DCL would be just happy if there's 10 to 20% capacity on the first cruise, and approach maybe 50% capacity later on. As for people not wanting to spend money on it, I'm guessing there are a lot of people going stir crazy from the last year. In addition, it will be an opportunity to have a totally different cruising experience with less crowds during the summer holiday season. From a novelty perspective, people might try it.

I went to WDW when it first opened and it was one of the best trips I ever had. I didn't have to worry about vaccines, covid tests, or being quarantined in my room. I could also get on a plane and go home anytime I wanted.

 

[TeamRipper]

but I sort of had second thoughts about temperature checks at that moment. Maybe it only catches one in a thousand (?), but given how many people one person can potentially infect, maybe it's worthwhile.

That said, if DCL is requiring guests over 18 to be vaccinated, it's probably worthless.

So here is the issue, the "rules" are cut and dry, but the technology isn't. I went to the dentist and they took my temperature. 93.6. I said really? Do you think that is accurate? They let me go ahead, but the question remains - if it read OVER, I would not be allowed to get my appointment. How is low end technology accommodated? Kids in school have a cough, they are ASSUMED to have the COVID, perhaps quarantined for no reason at all, including other students, getting ripped off of their education. No work, no extra curricular, based on some bogus "process". Nevermind, demo of 18-29 literally have 1000% more chance of dying of car crash than the plandemic. See CDC official numbers, if you can believe unelected officials that are getting their 15 minutes of "glory".

Lets remember, at the beginning of the plandemic, the Diamond Princess was in the headlines. There were a lot of folks that had cases. Please explain why people in the same cabin were not "infected". Please explain how co morbidities played into the numbers. Then ask, why does the non elected and discredited CDC have ANY say into whether cruising is any less safe than air travel. Thinks for yourselves, the media lies.

 

[BruinEd03]

I went to WDW when it first opened and it was one of the best trips I ever had. I didn't have to worry about vaccines, covid tests, or being quarantined in my room. I could also get on a plane and go home anytime I wanted.

Yes, you had a great experience, but it was not the same experience. Just a few differences:

1.) Depending on the state you came from, you may have had to quarantine upon return, take a Covid test, or both.
2.) You had temperature checks, where you could be denied entry into the Park, restaurants, and even Disney Springs as a whole. While you wouldn't be forced to quarantine, what are you going to do?
3.) You had to wear masks everywhere (even outdoors) with limited exceptions, which is actually more restrictive than many state regulations. Until recently, you even had to wear masks when getting your photos taken.
4.) You had to make reservations to enter a park.
5.) No park hopping.
6.) Limited capacity for sit-down restaurants, and choices overall for restaurants.
7.) Severely limited live entertainment options (e.g., no fireworks, no night shows, no large parades, no character photo ops, no live shows, etc.)
8.) Very limited hours.
9.) No fast passes.

Yet, despite all those restrictions and limitations, you had a blast.

As for the new UK cruise:

1.) Vaccine - if you have a vaccine already, you're not really worried about getting the vaccine. If you haven't, well, yes you may stress and you may cancel. But there will be a significant portion of the population that will have the vaccine (especially towards the end of summer).
2.) Covid tests - this is similar to temperature checks at WDW as you may be denied entry if you have a high temperature.
3.) Quarantine in room - At WDW they didn't quarantine you, but you did have limited options on what you could do. You can't enter Disney Springs, you can't enter the parks, and you can't enter restaurants. I suppose you could go to the hotel shop, or the pool, but your options for other activities are otherwise severely limited. Of course, your chances of being quarantined are much less than at WDW if the crew is all vaccinated, and everyone on the ship is vaccinated (save for children) and everyone has a Covid test.
4.) New activities. Disney said they are going to do some new activities, and I believe them. At WDW, yes, they did get rid of a lot of benefits, but out of that, they had random character greetings, some ridiculously short waits, new parades (well cavalcades), and just a new way to see WDW. Crowds were severely reduced for that time of the year.

I think people will still have fun, despite the restrictions and limitations - so long as they are not expecting the same experience Pre-Covid and have an open mind.

 

[mevelandry]

This is very reassuring. I think if they pull this off successfully, the CDC in the US may have a change of heart after all. These are better than the 'simulated voyages' they are looking for.

And I also hope the measures remain in place until everyone has been given at least one booster.

I always thought that if all cruise lines came forward with a similar plan (involving an emergency plan if there is one or multiple cases), the CDC would authorize them to sail again.

But currently, it is not the case and I am getting a little annoyed with certain cruise lines that are whining a lot publicly but not coming forward with anything that would make them look like they actually want to try to protect their guests.

 

[mevelandry]

**Edited**