The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[Makmak]

I

This article by Forbes has two interesting points I’ll copy below BUT after this and lots of other research (and dr. Fauci’s latest senate interview) I can’t see DCL dropping masks for vaccinated people.

which means, no matter where you fall on vaccination, it’s not the silver bullet for the travel industry (yet or maybe ever?) for Sars-cov-2.

Point 1.
“Two doses of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine were found to have only a 10.4% efficacy against mild-to-moderate infections caused by the B.1.351 South Africa variant, according to a phase 1b-2 clinical trial published on Tuesday in the New England Journal of Medicine. This is a cause for grave concern as the South African variants share similar mutations to the other variants leaving those vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine potentially exposed to multiple variants.”

point 2.
“As these variants threaten to become the dominant source of coronavirus cases globally, we urgently need second generation vaccines that provide greater protection against the variants if we are going to prevent another wave of infections and return to a level of normalcy.”

let’s say we get a vaccine passport- are they going to reject those with only the AZ vaccine? Can you only travel with both the first and second set of vaccines (and a later update with a new booster possibly?). Will this be a yearly thing like the flu?

honestly, at this point, it’s overwhelming. I know it seems straightforward. But it doesn’t feel that way.

It’s so frustrating for many, as news and research findings change constantly and it feels like the finish line keeps getting moved. Lots of people are very fatigued by this. Many people were incentivized to get vaccinated assuming they’re get to ditch the mask and gain peace of mind regarding their health. But now it seems that may be way off in the future.....

 

[brentm77]

*As pointed out below, this article is referencing older studies, even though it was updated March 19.

Very encouraging update on length-of-immunity data, as discussed in an article the NYT just updated:

Eight months after infection, most people who have recovered still have enough immune cells to fend off the virus and prevent illness, the new data show. A slow rate of decline in the short term suggests, happily, that these cells may persist in the body for a very, very long time to come.

The research, published online, has not been peer-reviewed nor published in a scientific journal. But it is the most comprehensive and long-ranging study of immune memory to the coronavirus to date.

“That amount of memory would likely prevent the vast majority of people from getting hospitalized disease, severe disease, for many years,” said Shane Crotty, a virologist at the La Jolla Institute of Immunology who co-led the new study.

The findings are likely to come as a relief to experts worried that immunity to the virus might be short-lived, and that vaccines might have to be administered repeatedly to keep the pandemic under control.

And the research squares with another recent finding: that survivors of SARS, caused by another coronavirus, still carry certain important immune cells 17 years after recovering.

The findings are consistent with encouraging evidence emerging from other labs. Researchers at the University of Washington, led by the immunologist Marion Pepper, had earlier shown that certain “memory” cells that were produced following infection with the coronavirus persist for at least three months in the body.

A study published last week also found that people who have recovered from Covid-19 have powerful and protective killer immune cells even when antibodies are not detectable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/...unity.html#click=[URL]https://t.co/qZeIlaxwfM[/URL]

 

[brentm77]

I

It’s so frustrating for many, as news and research findings change constantly and it feels like the finish line keeps getting moved. Lots of people are very fatigued by this. Many people were incentivized to get vaccinated assuming they’re get to ditch the mask and gain peace of mind regarding their health. But now it seems that may be way off in the future.....

This study is discouraging, but not unexpected. South Africa scrapped the plan to use the Oxford vaccine over a month ago.

The authors noted that it is unknown if the vaccine could still provide protection for severe cases or deaths. Hopefully it will provide some measure of protection.

 

[Missingmypooh]

This study is discouraging, but not unexpected. South Africa scrapped the plan to use the Oxford vaccine over a month ago.

The authors noted that it is unknown if the vaccine could still provide protection for severe cases or deaths. Hopefully it will provide some measure of protection.

Since the median age of the trial was 30, the scientists noted that it’s hard to see what impact this has on the vulnerable over 65+. ( younger/middle age people are still having severe cases/dying, so this is good for them, but only time will tell in regards to protection for those likely to end up in the hospital.)

Hopefully some of these therapeutics will have promising trials and the combination of natural immunity (from the share by brentm above) with widespread vaccine immunity, plus new treatments will finally curve this in our favor.

it will be interesting to see if they carry these therapeutics on the ship, or what procedures will be for a positive covid test (since it’s almost inevitable).

 

[DCLDVC1]

Cruise fans on social media for the past year: "I miss cruising and would do anything to be able to cruise again."

Royal and Celebrity yesterday: We'll start cruising in June out of Nassau and St. Maarten and vaccinations will be required for adults

Cruise fans on social media yesterday and today: "They can't do that. That's not fair."

 

[Snowwhyt]

Cruise fans on social media for the past year: "I miss cruising and would do anything to be able to cruise again."

Royal and Celebrity yesterday: We'll start cruising in June out of Nassaun and St. Maarten and vaccinations will be required for adults

Cruise fans on social media yesterday and today: "They can't do that. That's not fair."

Sounds like more than two subsets are represented in that group.

 

[cgolf]

Cruise fans on social media for the past year: "I miss cruising and would do anything to be able to cruise again."

Royal and Celebrity yesterday: We'll start cruising in June out of Nassaun and St. Maarten and vaccinations will be required for adults

Cruise fans on social media yesterday and today: "They can't do that. That's not fair."

I have no problem doing it, but I work in the sciences so am ok with it and have researched it. We also are not the type of people that lay out in a lounge chair on deck all day either. We like finding the spots on the lower decks where we can sit in the shade and watch the ocean slip past The problem is that they are starting at a point where many haven't gotten the vaccine yet or are eligible.

I think the May deadline for all made states do some irresponsible things. Reading in southern WI, they are now saying to the current group to get vaccinated now because if you don't this weekend, then there will be a 2-3 week delay because they opened it up to a large group and vaccine shipments actually are down. So yes they have been adding groups like crazy even though vaccine shipments are decreasing, makes sense doesn't it Thankfully my second dose is scheduled for April 11th and my wife's is the day before Easter so we will be ready and finish doing our part to get out of this

It is interesting seeing how different countries are doing right now. I know France is not in a good place right now.

 

[deliela999]

I found out this morning I qualify for a vaccine Monday!! And I've heard lately people are getting appointments within a couple days, one coworker got hers last week before the news announced they'd opened another group.

 

[Snowwhyt]

I have no problem doing it, but I work in the sciences so am ok with it and have researched it. We also are not the type of people that lay out in a lounge chair on deck all day either. We like finding the spots on the lower decks where we can sit in the shade and watch the ocean slip past The problem is that they are starting at a point where many haven't gotten the vaccine yet or are eligible.

I think the May deadline for all made states do some irresponsible things. Reading in southern WI, they are now saying to the current group to get vaccinated now because if you don't this weekend, then there will be a 2-3 week delay because they opened it up to a large group and vaccine shipments actually are down. So yes they have been adding groups like crazy even though vaccine shipments are decreasing, makes sense doesn't it Thankfully my second dose is scheduled for April 11th and my wife's is the day before Easter so we will be ready and finish doing our part to get out of this

It is interesting seeing how different countries are doing right now. I know France is not in a good place right now.

I’m in central WI and just got my shot yesterday at Lambeau field atrium. Not at all busy. There were long cues with nobody in them. I teased that I needed a piece of cheese since I made it through the maze. I’m set for my second vaccine on April 10 but could have made it sooner because they’re only having a three week wait between vaccinations. Not sure I feel safe since four week has been the norm up till recently. But I’m going to do as I’m told.

 

[goofystitch]

Very encouraging update on length-of-immunity data, as discussed in an article the NYT just updated:

Eight months after infection, most people who have recovered still have enough immune cells to fend off the virus and prevent illness, the new data show. A slow rate of decline in the short term suggests, happily, that these cells may persist in the body for a very, very long time to come.

The research, published online, has not been peer-reviewed nor published in a scientific journal. But it is the most comprehensive and long-ranging study of immune memory to the coronavirus to date.

“That amount of memory would likely prevent the vast majority of people from getting hospitalized disease, severe disease, for many years,” said Shane Crotty, a virologist at the La Jolla Institute of Immunology who co-led the new study.

The findings are likely to come as a relief to experts worried that immunity to the virus might be short-lived, and that vaccines might have to be administered repeatedly to keep the pandemic under control.

And the research squares with another recent finding: that survivors of SARS, caused by another coronavirus, still carry certain important immune cells 17 years after recovering.

The findings are consistent with encouraging evidence emerging from other labs. Researchers at the University of Washington, led by the immunologist Marion Pepper, had earlier shown that certain “memory” cells that were produced following infection with the coronavirus persist for at least three months in the body.

A study published last week also found that people who have recovered from Covid-19 have powerful and protective killer immune cells even when antibodies are not detectable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/...unity.html#click=[URL]https://t.co/qZeIlaxwfM[/URL]

I'm so glad you posted this since there has been such a focus on the vaccines. We had COVID in October and are reluctant to get vaccinated since we have immunity, which was proven in antibody testing last month. I am hoping that proof of vaccination is not required to cruise.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I am hoping that proof of vaccination is not required to cruise.

All the cruise lines which have announced summer 2021 sailings in UK, Israel, Bahamas, Singapore all require proof of vaccination for passengers

 

[BCV23]

I’m in central WI and just got my shot yesterday at Lambeau field atrium. Not at all busy. There were long cues with nobody in them. I teased that I needed a piece of cheese since I made it through the maze. I’m set for my second vaccine on April 10 but could have made it sooner because they’re only having a three week wait between vaccinations. Not sure I feel safe since four week has been the norm up till recently. But I’m going to do as I’m told.

Three weeks later has always been the recommended for Pfizer, four weeks for Moderna. Anyway, congratulations on receiving your first dose. Doesn't it feel like a miracle?

 

[goofystitch]

All the cruise lines which have announced summer 2021 sailings in UK, Israel, Bahamas, Singapore all require proof of vaccination for passengers

Yes, I know that. I was saying that I "hope" vaccination isn't required - that maybe an antibody test would be sufficient.

 

[soniam]

It’s so frustrating for many, as news and research findings change constantly and it feels like the finish line keeps getting moved. Lots of people are very fatigued by this. Many people were incentivized to get vaccinated assuming they’re get to ditch the mask and gain peace of mind regarding their health. But now it seems that may be way off in the future.....

I think people need to be realistic and not expect things to be back to normal even with the vaccine. I never read any experts saying that we could ditch masks once we got the vaccine. They have been saying for a while, not vociferously though, that we would indeed need to keep masks, because there is no scientific evidence yet that the vaccines prevent the spread of covid. You do get to gain some peace of mind though, because the current vaccines will help prevent serious illness or death from the current variant. Moderna & Pfizer look to be pretty good, at least, against the UK variant. They are probably not completely worthless against some known variants too. They are also developing boosters against the other concerning variants. The variants have been around since early on too. Pretty soon after it hit the US, they noticed that a more contagious but less deadly version, compared to Europe, seemed to be spreading throughout the US. Also, we know that the flu changes every year. Looking for a goal post and sprinting towards it just sets one up for disappointment. This is more of a marathon, without the actual distance being known. We just need to mostly live day to day right now. Plus, this all new to the experts too. We have gone through many tiring things as a country/people. Think of the wars. I am sure people really wanted those to be over, but they seemed to accept that it was what it was and would end when it was time.

 

[DCLMP]

You'd think so but we went through a solid six months of vaccines permeating into every thread before we settled on this. As time has gone on the vaccination effort has been increasingly considered in the conversation around reopening/travel/cruising started again. In an attempt to keep it out of every other thread, we created this catch all thread. Once DCL is sailing again I'm sure we can put it to rest and go back to being stricter about this and the politics surrounding it....

It's still a controversial topic. I wish you luck.

 

[Intr3pid]

Very encouraging update on length-of-immunity data, as discussed in an article the NYT just updated:

Eight months after infection, most people who have recovered still have enough immune cells to fend off the virus and prevent illness, the new data show. A slow rate of decline in the short term suggests, happily, that these cells may persist in the body for a very, very long time to come.

The research, published online, has not been peer-reviewed nor published in a scientific journal. But it is the most comprehensive and long-ranging study of immune memory to the coronavirus to date.

“That amount of memory would likely prevent the vast majority of people from getting hospitalized disease, severe disease, for many years,” said Shane Crotty, a virologist at the La Jolla Institute of Immunology who co-led the new study.

The findings are likely to come as a relief to experts worried that immunity to the virus might be short-lived, and that vaccines might have to be administered repeatedly to keep the pandemic under control.

And the research squares with another recent finding: that survivors of SARS, caused by another coronavirus, still carry certain important immune cells 17 years after recovering.

The findings are consistent with encouraging evidence emerging from other labs. Researchers at the University of Washington, led by the immunologist Marion Pepper, had earlier shown that certain “memory” cells that were produced following infection with the coronavirus persist for at least three months in the body.

A study published last week also found that people who have recovered from Covid-19 have powerful and protective killer immune cells even when antibodies are not detectable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/...unity.html#click=[URL]https://t.co/qZeIlaxwfM[/URL]

A few things to note:

1. This isn't a new study. It's from August 2020 (with an update in November) and based on the wild version of the virus - well before the variants came into the frame.

August:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.11.20171843v2.article-info
November:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.15.383323v1
2. It's yet to be peer reviewed - and probably won't ever be since the variants have now taken over the strains.

3. There is no vaccine involved here. The study was based on infections. (We have since seen cases of re-infections.) The study is a very good start, but let's understand this is old data.

4. Since the variants came out, the vaccine companies have announced boosters. Their data must have something deeper to dig.

 

[Missingmypooh]

A few things to note:

1. This isn't a new study. It's from August 2020 (with an update in November) and based on the wild version of the virus - well before the variants came into the frame.

August:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.11.20171843v2.article-info
November:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.15.383323v1
2. It's yet to be peer reviewed - and probably won't ever be since the variants have now taken over the strains.

3. There is no vaccine involved here. The study was based on infections. (We have since seen cases of re-infections.) The study is a very good start, but let's understand this is old data.

4. Since the variants came out, the vaccine companies have announced boosters. Their data must have something deeper to dig.

and then we’ve got a variant that supposedly circumvents current covid PCR testing.will it go anywhere? Who knows. The point is this thing keeps evolving. Expecting the unexpected is the new slogan because SARS-cov-2 wants to make this a memorable trip around the globe.

at this point, it’s no wonder we don’t have an opening date for DCL.

there are just too many unknowns as the data and theories evolve to fit this pandemic.

 

[brentm77]

A few things to note:

1. This isn't a new study. It's from August 2020 (with an update in November) and based on the wild version of the virus - well before the variants came into the frame.

August:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.11.20171843v2.article-info
November:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.15.383323v1
2. It's yet to be peer reviewed - and probably won't ever be since the variants have now taken over the strains.

3. There is no vaccine involved here. The study was based on infections. (We have since seen cases of re-infections.) The study is a very good start, but let's understand this is old data.

4. Since the variants came out, the vaccine companies have announced boosters. Their data must have something deeper to dig.

You are right. Thanks for catching the timing on the studies. I saw the article had been updated March 19th, and I thought the references to recent studies were also updated. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[mevelandry]

I'm so glad you posted this since there has been such a focus on the vaccines. We had COVID in October and are reluctant to get vaccinated since we have immunity, which was proven in antibody testing last month. I am hoping that proof of vaccination is not required to cruise.

Here, if you have had COVID, they require only 1/2 shot for you to be considered « fully vaccinated ».

Not sure what the cruise lines will do about this.

 

[cgolf]

Here, if you have had COVID, they require only 1/2 shot for you to be considered « fully vaccinated ».

Not sure what the cruise lines will do about this.

My guess is that won't be enough. I think that Canada is saying that because that is the way they think they have to roll out the vaccine. I would be curious what Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZeneca have to say about this. My concern for you all, is that due to the time between doses you won't get the antibody boost that is seen with them 3-4 weeks apart. Similar to people that have had covid, the antibodies have been shown to diminish over time. It could almost be like getting two first shots. I know when this was first talked about in Europe the vaccine manufacturers weren't happy that countries were choosing an untested path with the vaccine.

The above is speculation on my part. While I work in the sciences, this wasn't my specific field of study.