Thinking (Seriously!) about Buying a DVC Resale...

[KAT4DISNEY]

Greg, did you check out the availability chart post mentioned on this thread? Unless you’re looking for a studio, I think Grand Floridian wasn’t that impossible to book at the 7-month mark, depending on the time of year. For a $20k savings, it may be worth buying with a less expensive resort as your home.
Or — correct me if I’m wrong — I’m still trying to figure out all the nuances of DVC — I think you could purchase a large point contract at a less expensive resort (for example, 200 points at SSR) and then a smaller point contract at GF, and transfer between the two year-to-year but have the benefit of both home resorts. That way, you‘d have more points for less money, but still be able to book GF at the 11-month mark.

The points retain their home resort status and only the VGF points could be used at 11 months to book VGF. One could use banking and borrowing with a smaller contract to have a longer length of stay but the SSR points could not be used for booking at VGF until the 7 month window even if they were transferred points.

 

[SG131]

Thanks! Yeah, I’m a little bummed with the Jan 2019 restrictions on future resorts, but not enough to dissuade me from resale. I figure I could always get a small contract direct if it ever became that much of an issue. Also, with the refurbishments continuing at the classic 14, it’s not like they’re falling into disrepair — the dues make sure of that!

True. And honestly, it could be argued that the new resorts are the inferior product due to the resale restrictions. All depends on your point of view and what’s important to you.

 

[zavandor]

Just out of curiosity, why do you say “...resale is now an objectively inferior product?” Aside from the extra perks — AP discounts, food discounts, etc. (all of which aren’t contractual any way) -- is there anything I’m missing out on? I’m strongly leaning toward resale, but I want to make an informed decision.

If you buy resale at Riviera you can only book Riviera. If you buy one of the L14 resorts, then you cannot book Riviera, Reflections, the new Disneyland Hotel DVC and all future resorts. Will they build a second Contemporary DVC resort where the conference center currently is? Between the GF and the MK? The Epcot Gate resort that was rumored some time ago?
So resale now is an inferior product. Is it so inferior to justify buying direct? That's for everyone to decide, I would say the impact for anyone buying one of the L14 resort can be minimal at least until 2042, then there will not be any option for a near Epcot Resort. Is this a problem so big to pay now 50-100% more to buy direct? I would say no.
But the point of my post wasn't "resale is bad, buy direct". Not at all. Exactly because of the resale restriction I wouldn't ever buy direct, on me they have the opposite effect they want to accomplish. The point is that in the past, when for the core product resale and direct where exactly the same, they created the Membership Magic program, to give salespeople a card to play when someone raised buying resale. Now, it may not be needed anymore. They might continue to use both the carrot (blue card) and the stick (restrictions), but they might leave the AP and other discounts and cancel an expensive programme like MM that less than 1% (semi-random number) of the membership can enjoy every year.

 

[DaveNan]

Resale is also an ever increasing beast. At the beginning you had 1 resort and all new owners, so the volume of resale available was very small. Even is you didn't add more resorts, for a sold out resort, the units available for resale would rise over time and eventually hit a steady state. But by adding 13 more resorts over 25 years, you now have 250,000 owners I believe. And you are still actively selling just 1 (or 2 if you count AUL). So if just 1% of the owners have a life crisis or changing priorities and need to sell, that is now 2500 owners each year. And as more resorts are sold and you get a larger pool of owners, that number goes up every year. 20 years ago that was maybe 5000 owners wanting to sell each year. So as the availability of contracts goes up, combined with broader availability of information (the internet and social media), I suspect the pressure on direct sales got to a critical level. Until Disney finds incentives (member benefits and MM) or penalties (no cruises, collection, and now resale restrictions) to balance those forces, they will keep trying.

 

[bobbiwoz]

At some point in your life, use year may not matter at all. I have March UY which was great when I worked and I always had a spring break. Retired now, and December and January are when I have my most DVC night stays, and March UY is not good, but we live with it.

 

[AVmatt]

...
Expect to spend more on Disney vacations after you buy DVC.
...

Bill

Hi all! First post. This comment caught my attention and I would love to hear feedback on it. I'm looking at DVC as a way to make Disney World (and possibly Disneyland) vacations more affordable, so I'm curious about the reasoning behind Bill's comment and if that is a general consensus from the DVC community or a Your Mileage May Vary kind of a thing.

Thanks for the great info!

 

[crvetter]

Hi all! First post. This comment caught my attention and I would love to hear feedback on it. I'm looking at DVC as a way to make Disney World (and possibly Disneyland) vacations more affordable, so I'm curious about the reasoning behind Bill's comment and if that is a general consensus from the DVC community or a Your Mileage May Vary kind of a thing.

Thanks for the great info!

Effectively what that poster was likely referring too is that because you have DVC you might be more inclined to take those "savings" you have from buying into DVC and reinvesting directly back into more vacations at Disney, thus this can compound and grow into more money. So this statement, if I interpreted correctly, is really about self control and getting caught up in Disney.

Also if you buy a WDW resort expect VGC to be super lucky to get into at 7 months.

 

[Bing Showei]

Hi all! First post. This comment caught my attention and I would love to hear feedback on it. I'm looking at DVC as a way to make Disney World (and possibly Disneyland) vacations more affordable, so I'm curious about the reasoning behind Bill's comment and if that is a general consensus from the DVC community or a Your Mileage May Vary kind of a thing.

Thanks for the great info!

There may be disciplined owners out there who manage to go through their entire ownership maintaining whatever travel habits they had previous to Disney timeshare ownerhsip, but general consensus (and my own personal experience) is that ownership will change how you vacation; more often than not this will result in more frequent visits.

Your per visit costs will certainly go down, but if you used to take one trip every two years, and now you're going to be going down twice a year, you are taking any "savings" you would've had on your biennial trips and basically reinvesting it into extra trips. Your net expenditure will far exceed what you used to spend, which is what Bill is alluding to.

 

[Miffy]

I realize the that this isn't an issue for the OP, since they have a car while at WDW, but I wanted to say something about the bus transportation from AKL/AKV that hasn't been addressed. I stay at AKL all the time and don't have a car. Last week when we were there, the bus service was idyllic, but it isn't always like that and it's impossible to predict. However, when we wait more than we think we want to for a bus, we use rideshare. It's pretty inexpensive, really.

But that's not my main point! My main point is that AKL/AKV has a huge transportation advantage over all the other resorts, which is that it takes about 5 minutes to bus from there to DAK. It's probably 10 minutes if you're staying at AKV, where the bus stops first. And it's been my experience that at AKL/AKV the DAK bus comes more frequently than any other park bus. So if DAK is your favorite park, then count transportation from AKL/AKV as a huge plus.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Just thinking, as we get closer and closer to 2042 and with the Resale restrictions going forward on all new resorts what are the consequences. Those that own and BLT, AKL, Poly, and GF may be in for a shock at how much those points increase--could this even occur with SSR? Last I looked BLT was selling at $145 a point, but in say 2030 could the resale price skyrocket to $190 a point or greater, and what about the rest of the DVC resorts that do not expire in 2042? Disney may have accidently created a much greater resale market that they could ever have imaged on the non 2042 resorts.

 

[SG131]

Hi all! First post. This comment caught my attention and I would love to hear feedback on it. I'm looking at DVC as a way to make Disney World (and possibly Disneyland) vacations more affordable, so I'm curious about the reasoning behind Bill's comment and if that is a general consensus from the DVC community or a Your Mileage May Vary kind of a thing.

Thanks for the great info!

It’s called addonitis...and it has affected a lot of us. You love it so much you want more!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

If you buy resale at Riviera you can only book Riviera. If you buy one of the L14 resorts, then you cannot book Riviera, Reflections, the new Disneyland Hotel DVC and all future resorts. Will they build a second Contemporary DVC resort where the conference center currently is? Between the GF and the MK? The Epcot Gate resort that was rumored some time ago?
So resale now is an inferior product. Is it so inferior to justify buying direct? That's for everyone to decide, I would say the impact for anyone buying one of the L14 resort can be minimal at least until 2042, then there will not be any option for a near Epcot Resort. Is this a problem so big to pay now 50-100% more to buy direct? I would say no.
But the point of my post wasn't "resale is bad, buy direct". Not at all. Exactly because of the resale restriction I wouldn't ever buy direct, on me they have the opposite effect they want to accomplish. The point is that in the past, when for the core product resale and direct where exactly the same, they created the Membership Magic program, to give salespeople a card to play when someone raised buying resale. Now, it may not be needed anymore. They might continue to use both the carrot (blue card) and the stick (restrictions), but they might leave the AP and other discounts and cancel an expensive programme like MM that less than 1% (semi-random number) of the membership can enjoy every year.

I'd argue that calling resale an inferior product is not appropriate. Resale is different, yes. Marketing would like that terminology though as it provokes such a negative response to a "competitors" product. I know honestly I don't believe so but also know that it is the message that DVC so desperately wants to impart and convince buyers of. Inferior because you can't use points for things that in essence require you to pay with more points than you can't rent out and pay cash? Future resorts are never guaranteed either and have been announced in the past and then cancelled. For myself I know we've reached a point that there more than enough resorts to stay at in WDW with restricted points than we really have need for. However we do have points that allow us to stay at Riviera but this is the very first time that I did not book at the resort right out of the gate as there are enough others we know we like.

If resale and direct were the exact same price? Then perhaps you could use inferior although I'd just say getting less for the same price.

Resale and direct pricing is different and has always been which must have made resale a vastly superior product in the past.

It's just a different product now.

 

[Sandisw]

Thats fine but when even my parents say they read and hear about it and they basically never look up anything about WDW and then I experience 9 days worth of terrible bus service I am going to push out the word.

You likely won't agree that bus service in general is an issue? Even though its brought up in general on these boards as well. Hence having a resort you don't need to worry about busses the whole time you are there is a huge positive.

That all goes out the window if you plan on always having a vehicle and driving to parks.

Another option is using Uber or Lyft to avoid buses if you don’t have a car. For MK, I just have them drop me at BLT and walk or VGF and monorail over.

 

[zavandor]

I'd argue that calling resale an inferior product is not appropriate. Resale is different, yes. Marketing would like that terminology though as it provokes such a negative response to a "competitors" product. I know honestly I don't believe so but also know that it is the message that DVC so desperately wants to impart and convince buyers of. Inferior because you can't use points for things that in essence require you to pay with more points than you can't rent out and pay cash? Future resorts are never guaranteed either and have been announced in the past and then cancelled. For myself I know we've reached a point that there more than enough resorts to stay at in WDW with restricted points than we really have need for. However we do have points that allow us to stay at Riviera but this is the very first time that I did not book at the resort right out of the gate as there are enough others we know we like.

If resale and direct were the exact same price? Then perhaps you could use inferior although I'd just say getting less for the same price.

Resale and direct pricing is different and has always been which must have made resale a vastly superior product in the past.

It's just a different product now.

Direct points can do everything that resale points can do. The opposite is not tue.
This is a definizione of something that is limited, lesser, inferior or whatever we want to define. But there are limits on how you can use a resale contract when compared with direct.
I do not disagree that a resale at the L14 resorts is a great value, better than any direct contract and probably enough for most people. But if a salesperson say that resale is inferior to a direct product they're not lying.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Direct points can do everything that resale points can do. The opposite is not tue.
This is a definizione of something that is limited, lesser, inferior or whatever we want to define. But there are limits on how you can use a resale contract when compared with direct.
I do not disagree that a resale at the L14 resorts is a great value, better than any direct contract and probably enough for most people. But if a salesperson say that resale is inferior to a direct product they're not lying.

It's quite a hyperbole. Because something doesn't offer all the options doesn't automatically mean it's inferior.

 

[MJB62676]

Hi all! First post. This comment caught my attention and I would love to hear feedback on it. I'm looking at DVC as a way to make Disney World (and possibly Disneyland) vacations more affordable, so I'm curious about the reasoning behind Bill's comment and if that is a general consensus from the DVC community or a Your Mileage May Vary kind of a thing.

Thanks for the great info!

I'll put it like this. I was born in 1976. Prior to 12/9/17, I had never stepped foot on Disney Property. I paid cash for an OKW stay that week. I fell in love. I bought DVC. I've since spent nearly 30 nights at a Disney Property, and got 22 days of use out of my "discounted" Platinum Plus passes I got after we joined. I've probably spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 8K on meals/food/snacks at Disney since that day. We've flown to MCO times since. Lord only knows how much we've spent on Dis and DVC merchandise. Two Mickey's Xmas parties and one Halloween party, etc.

I've loved every second and every penny. Worth it x10000000

 

[sethschroeder]

Another option is using Uber or Lyft to avoid buses if you don’t have a car. For MK, I just have them drop me at BLT and walk or VGF and monorail over.

The only thing I worry about is long term cost of that option. Its why we passed on buying AKV and instead went back to BWV which we love.

I could see WDW and Universal cracking down further on Lyft/Uber and charging $10-$15 per pick-up fees. I think Universal has already done something already to that effect and I can't image Disney won't want a cut of the potential money.

 

[Jenniebee]

I have done 4 trips in 5 years, stayed at a value, a moderate, and 2 deluxes. I found the bus service to be basically the same at any of the places we stayed. You walk up, wait anywhere from 5-15 min, and get on a bus. We stayed at AKL 4 months ago and the bus service was fine, no issues whatsoever. The longest ride that I would say "felt" long was from AKL to Disney Springs. It definitely did not stand out as being worse or better than any other time I used a Disney bus, FWIW.

 

[Sandisw]

The only thing I worry about is long term cost of that option. Its why we passed on buying AKV and instead went back to BWV which we love.

I could see WDW and Universal cracking down further on Lyft/Uber and charging $10-$15 per pick-up fees. I think Universal has already done something already to that effect and I can't image Disney won't want a cut of the potential money.

True, one has to weigh the cost, but I was thinking it as more of an alternative to renting a car. For me, it is worth every penny to avoid a bus on way to park. When returning to the resort, I do use buses Because at that point I’m in no rush!

I am not sure about a fee. Disney seems okay with people visiting other resorts for shopping and dining but don’t want people to drive. So, I think it’d have to get really bad,

Plus, I venture To guess that the majority of the people don’t mind the buses.

 

[Sandisw]

There may be disciplined owners out there who manage to go through their entire ownership maintaining whatever travel habits they had previous to Disney timeshare ownerhsip, but general consensus (and my own personal experience) is that ownership will change how you vacation; more often than not this will result in more frequent visits.

Your per visit costs will certainly go down, but if you used to take one trip every two years, and now you're going to be going down twice a year, you are taking any "savings" you would've had on your biennial trips and basically reinvesting it into extra trips. Your net expenditure will far exceed what you used to spend, which is what Bill is alluding to.

Yup! When I bought we did one 5-6 night trip every year so I got 180 points which would allow us that same trip in a 1 bedroom.

10 years later...I own 825 points, and plan tomorrow visit 6 to 7 times a year. So, I am spending a lot more now for my Disney trips compared to what I did for a yearly trip...my MFs alone exceed it.

Obviously, I am getting so many more stays for what is costing me, but in no way am I saving money anymore since my habits completely changed! Lol