This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[ronandannette]

He actually just had her leaning on what he thought was a glass wall but the area she was in had a window that opened for ventilation and she leaned on it and fell through. There should never be a window like that in the kids room.
I've let my child lean on glass walls not thinking they'd ever be a hidden window that pushed out. What cruise line ever thought that it was a smart idea to have a window that opened out into the ocean and that was in the kids area. I saw the interview with the mother and they showed a picture of the wall of glass with the window that opened.

All due respect - you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you are saying that no one is going to look at that area and think its a kid's area, you are kidding yourself. H2O zone is right in the middle on that end of the deck. The chairs are set up facing the H2o Zone. There isn't near the room between the play area (because what exactly else would you call it?) and the windows as some of you are saying.

It would be as much a Kid's Area as it would be a Dining Area.

Have you ever been on a cruise ship, or better yet, this ship in particular? If so, you would have an entirely different perspective. I'm reading many people who don't have any personal point of reference trying to piece things together and just flat-out getting it wrong.

 

[kdonnel]

There's actually a pool right in the H20 area. You can see it on the left of the photo below. It's an area where you should be keeping an extra eye on your toddlers. That's what annoys me about their description of windows in a child play area. It makes it sound like an area where children should be running around unattended.

View attachment 419475

That pool is actually the smallest lazy river ever. I got in it just to say I did. It was kid soup spinning around.

 

[msjprincess]

That pool is actually the smallest lazy river ever. I got in it just to say I did. It was kid soup spinning around.

The lazy river pool is on the right. I was talking about the regular pool on the left.

You have to go up stairs for the lazy river. For the regular pool you only have to go over the bench.

 

[fly girl]

It's very possible someone heard a woman scream & assumed it was the mother. A stranger wouldn't have known who the child's mother was.

I remember reading that Chloe let out a blood curdling scream as she fell. (Just typing that made my heart drop.) That could have been what the witness heard.

 

[lifesavacation]

I have seen the deck plans. And I didn’t say it IS a kid’s area. I said, I can see why some would call it that if they were close to the play area.

My understanding from initial reports were that there were no witnesses. And like I said, there were witnesses reporting the mother’s reaction that can’t be true because she didn’t see the child fall. So yeah, not too reliable.

I can’t bring myself to type it out, but you can listen to the Today interview for more information about the mother’s screams That was witnessed.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I remember reading that Chloe let out a blood curdling scream as she fell. (Just typing that made my heart drop.) That could have been what the witness heard.

That breaks my heart. I wish I wouldn't have read this.

 

[fly girl]

That breaks my heart. I wish I wouldn't have read this.

I am sorry.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I can’t bring myself to type it out, but you can listen to the Today interview for more information about the mother’s screams That was witnessed.

I didn't watch the show. As a mother, I can't imagine someone telling me that happened to my child. That poor mother.

I am sorry.

It's okay. You were just sharing what you read.

 

[luvsJack]

All due respect - you have no idea what you're talking about.

Have you ever been on a cruise ship, or better yet, this ship in particular? If so, you would have an entirely different perspective. I'm reading many people who don't have any personal point of reference trying to piece things together and just flat-out getting it wrong.

No but I can see. I am not saying where the window is or where they were. I am saying that seeing all that not too far away, I get where the reference came from.

 

[luvsJack]

I remember reading that Chloe let out a blood curdling scream as she fell. (Just typing that made my heart drop.) That could have been what the witness heard.

And it’s very possible that or another woman is what they heard. Point being that it wasn’t the mother like they said. I don’t mean that any witness was lying just that they are retelling what they are assuming not necessarily what is fact.

And yes it breaks my heart in to a hundred pieces to even think of the screams that baby let out. It’s horrible, just too horrible for words.

 

[DLgal]

Here's the thing. Let's assume the GFs story about putting her on the railing is the truth. Now, let's imagine that the GF HIMSELF stood up on the same railing, leaned forward, and fell through the window. Would ANYONE feel like it was NOT his own fault? Anyone?

I feel like blaming the cruise line is ludicrous because in the dozens and dozens of "man overboard" incidents on cruise ships over the years, where it was clear that the adult put themselves in harm's way by sitting or standing on a railing, no one has ever said "that was the cruise line's fault." No. People unanimously agree that getting up on cruise ship railings is a stupid and potentially deadly thing to do. It's a universally understood risk.

 

[John VN]

There's actually a pool right in the H20 area. You can see it on the left of the photo below. It's an area where you should be keeping an extra eye on your toddlers. That's what annoys me about their description of windows in a child play area. It makes it sound like an area where children should be running around unattended.

View attachment 419475

I am looking at the photo and believe I see a person standing at the rail on Deck 12 almost directly above an opened window on Deck 11 with the railing before the window. I am getting an upset stomach picturing an adult lifting an 18 month old up to the rail on Deck 12 and for some reason releasing a vice like grip that should be taking place if performing the action????? From what my eyes see, NO MISTAKING that the windows are opened.

 

[ronandannette]

No but I can see. I am not saying where the window is or where they were. I am saying that seeing all that not too far away, I get where the reference came from.

Please be open-minded enough to accept that you are missing crucial perspective - the lounge chair/tables area is not in direct proximity to the splash zone. And even if it were, there is no way in H-E-double hockeysticks a child of that age could climb or fall out of one of those windows unassisted. They are NOT a bona fide safety hazard.

Literally hundreds of thousands of passengers sail this ship every year and have done so since 2008 without anything remotely similar to this incident. Multiply that by all the passengers on all RCCL ships, add in all the passengers on all cruise ships of every cruiseline world-wide (practically ALL OF WHICH would have some sort of venting windows) and you must be able to understand, unless you just don't want to.

 

[fly girl]

No but I can see. I am not saying where the window is or where they were. I am saying that seeing all that not too far away, I get where the reference came from.

I understand what you’re saying.

However, the pictures truly don’t depict how far the windows are from the H2O Zone. You’re looking at an image that doesn’t show true space. It’s a flat image so it cannot show the actual distance. Someone who’s been on the ship (like myself) can verify that it’s easily 30 feet away. You even have a dedicated walk way in between the H2O Zone and the chairs leading to the windows. When they say “child’s play area” many minds tend to think of immediate space, not 30+ feet away.

And as PP stated, when they use the term “child’s play area” many conjure up images of the Kids Club on a cruise ship. When I first read “kids play area” I immediately went to thinking it was the dedicated Kids Club. I’m sure other past cruisers went there too.

IMHO they should truly call it what it is, THE POOL DECK. Then everyone can get a correct depiction of the area.

 

[OhhBother]

I understand what you’re saying.

However, the pictures truly don’t depict how far the windows are from the H2O Zone. You’re looking at an image that doesn’t show true space. It’s a flat image so it cannot show the actual distance. Someone who’s been on the ship (like myself) can verify that it’s easily 30 feet away. You even have a dedicated walk way in between the H2O Zone and the chairs leading to the windows. When they say “child’s play area” many minds tend to think of immediate space, not 30+ feet away.

And as PP stated, when they use the term “child’s play area” many conjure up images of the Kids Club on a cruise ship. When I first read “kids play area” I immediately went to thinking it was the dedicated Kids Club. I’m sure other past cruisers went there too.

IMHO they should truly call it what it is, THE POOL DECK. Then everyone can get a correct depiction of the area.

Agreed. After reading through several pages of posts, it’s very clear which posters have been on a cruise and which ones haven’t. If you’ve been on a cruise, you know how the pool deck is set up. It is absolutely incorrect to imply the window is in a child’s play area.

It’s much less of a stretch to call it a dining area - particularly on embarkation day. The buffet is always packed, and plenty of people
sit at those outdoor tables to eat. My family and I did on our most recent Alaskan cruise in May, as a matter of fact.

 

[mummabear]

They haven't actually said that the deck is called the "kids area", they said "in a kid's play area". Which technically it is a kid's play area or at least a play area. I honestly don't know why it matters if its called the kid's area or the pool deck. By either name, its an area for kids. Not that it honestly has that much bearing on what happened. Just one more thing that gives people the ability to accuse someone of lying.

Because semantics matter.
They arent lying, they are manipulating the facts though. Is there a kids play area? Yes. Is that where she fell from? Nope.

Something that I found interesting was the attorney calling this an accident. https://www.today.com/news/parents-...ibbean-cruise-ship-share-unfathomable-t159158

"There's no doubt this was an accident," the family's attorney, Mike Winkleman, said. "Really the singular question is, were there safety measures that could have been in place and should have been in place? If they were in place, again, there would have been no tragedy."

ETA: I would argue that the window being tinted, it's height off the floor, and the use of a railing are all adequate safety measures. From a pure statistical perspective, this has only happened once and hundreds of thousands if not millions of people have been on ships with these windows.

There would have been no tragedy if the GF hadnt lifted her onto the railing.
The mother says there are a million things RCL could have done, but really GF just needed to not do one.

The first report called it a "dining area" so he isn't the first to call it something other than the actual name.

I think if a jury sees pictures of the area, its not going to matter what you call it, they are going to see a kid's area.

If I was RCL I would take the jury onto the deck, physically if possible, to make it very clear how far away it was.
Most importantly, she wasn't in her togs, she wasn't playing in the H2O zone, she didnt run from the H2O zone and tumble out a window before her GF ould catch up to her, which is really the idea they are trying to get people to think, that it could happen to anyone. And in reality it couldn't.

That has not one thing to do with this.

Yes it does.
If you link windows 30+ feet away are in the kids play area, then the kids play area being 30 feet away from a main pool makes it in the main pool area.
The point is that it isnt an area you should let your guard down with kids.
It would be one of the most dangerous areas on the ship for kids I would think, with the hazards that multiple pools would entail.

 

[kaytieeldr]

No but I can see. I am not saying where the window is or where they were. I am saying that seeing all that not too far away, I get where the reference came from.

Ship is 185 feet across. Even if the play area is 60% of that with (I think it's less), that still means it's separated from the wall of windows by about 36 feet. On each side. Plus the lounge chairs and the cafe-style tables/chairs.

That's about the same width as your typical two-way street with parking on both sides.

 

[theluckyrabbit]

...
The mother says there are a million things RCL could have done, but really GF just needed to not do one...

This should have been pointed out in that interview... heartbreaking, but so true. And I'm sure he would give his own life now to take back that one moment.

 

[sam_gordon]

Saying the windows are in the kids play area is like saying seats in Row K at a basketball arena are on the court.

 

[Pink Partridge]

When Bode Miller's daughter drown, the parents blamed their pediatrician for not warning them of the statics of toddler drownings. It was ridiculous. The little girl's mother was curled up, drinking tea, without her daughter in sight. The daughter left the house. How can you blame the pediatrician? It was a tragedy and horrible. But they didn't want to take responsibility. They wanted to blame others.

This is the same thing to me. The grandfather was 100% responsible for this child's tragic death. He made a poor choice. And I feel terrible that he will have to live with it until the day he dies. But nobody else is to blame.