This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[Imzadi]

Am I understanding the article and previous information correctly, i.e. Chloe was wearing a bathing suit when he put her on that railing and used a one arm hold in front of an open window on the 11th deck?? So, when a healthy, already excited, and probably wriggly toddler who is slippery enough in regular clothes, is now even more slippery in a bathing suit (which, even when dry, doesn't have much grip in the fabric), the grandfather chooses to put her on the railing with a one arm hold? Absolutely no words...

Not only a slippery bathing suit, she was also wearing a hat with a slightly wide brim. There was always one description of him, while he was holding her, that always puzzled me. His lawyer, when he made the public statement, said that the grandfather was holding Chloe on the railing, and he stumbled for a second. (So was he feeble and doddering at 51? Did he have health issues and shouldn't have been carrying her? Did the ship move a bit, so that his balance was off? Yet PP here have said a ship that large would hardly move enough for him to have stumbled.) That's when he let go of her for a second, and then she was gone.

Since she was wearing the hat, and probably squirming, I'm now thinking, the brim of the hat probably was about to hit him in the eye. He instinctively reacted by moving out of the way, and in that moment also let go of Chloe. From the camera angle, it appeared he stumbled.

Here is the pic of her in the bathing suit & floppy hat, minutes before the accident:

 

[cvjw]

The video is online at dailymail. It is pretty hard to see exactly what is going on, but it appears he looked out the window for a while before holding her up and out the window. It also appeared that he was only holding her with one arm.

 

[Jennasis]

The video is online at dailymail. It is pretty hard to see exactly what is going on, but it appears he looked out the window for a while before holding her up and out the window. It also appeared that he was only holding her with one arm.

There is no way I could watch the video...but are you saying he held her OUT THE WINDOW?

 

[HopperFan]

Yup. If he accepts this deal I would think it would torpedo their chances in the civil suit.

Nothing will bring their child back so at this point they have to decide what is more important .... Grandfather's life going forward OR the money.

EDIT: I watched the one video from side view. They need to take the deal. He had his head and upper body leaning out the window for about 10 seconds before he pulls back in, leans down to talk to and pick her up. He then puts her out the window where she isn't even visible to the camera and its about 30 seconds before he falls back to floor. This is not going to help their case at all. This is why he was charged. I hope they let him take the plea deal and try to heal.

 

[cvjw]

There is no way I could watch the video...but are you saying he held her OUT THE WINDOW?

It appeared to me that he did - but the video isn’t great quality. The video is a side view. He stands by the window, looking out - you can no longer see his head. Just his body. Then he picks up the baby, holds her over his head and she disappears from view. It also appeared that you could still see one arm outside the window - like he was holding her with only one arm. Tragic. This video is not helpful to their civil suit against royal Caribbean.

and, the open window appears a different color from the other windows in the video.

 

[sam_gordon]

It appeared to me that he did - but the video isn’t great quality. The video is a side view. He stands by the window, looking out - you can no longer see his head. Just his body. Then he picks up the baby, holds her over his head and she disappears from view. It also appeared that you could still see one arm outside the window - like he was holding her with only one arm. Tragic. This video is not helpful to their civil suit against royal Caribbean.

and, the open window appears a different color from the other windows in the video.

You SAW the actual video? How?

 

[mnrose]

It's on the Daily Mail site, it's pretty blurry. But, his head AND the kid both disappear long before she's "dropped." In other words, the angle of this video makes it look like she's OUTSIDE the window. Before he picks her up, it also looks like his head is OUTSIDE the window...as if he's leaning forward. I agree that this is a very unhelpful video for the family's lawsuit.

 

[Lilsia]

I saw an interview with the lawyer and it made me so angry. One of his statements in blaming the cruise line is that he said that they should have a warning on the railing.!? The railing IS the warning. Every other report that I have seen where the reporter watches the video and does a running commentary all say that he leaned out of the window before he picked her up and then picked her up and leaned her out the window. It sounds very deliberate.

 

[cvjw]

He needs to take the plea deal while it is still an option. With the release of this video, you can see that he is clearly at fault.

 

[JaxDad]

Not only a slippery bathing suit, she was also wearing a hat with a slightly wide brim. There was always one description of him, while he was holding her, that always puzzled me. His lawyer, when he made the public statement, said that the grandfather was holding Chloe on the railing, and he stumbled for a second. (So was he feeble and doddering at 51? Did he have health issues and shouldn't have been carrying her? Did the ship move a bit, so that his balance was off? Yet PP here have said a ship that large would hardly move enough for him to have stumbled.) That's when he let go of her for a second, and then she was gone.

Since she was wearing the hat, and probably squirming, I'm now thinking, the brim of the hat probably was about to hit him in the eye. He instinctively reacted by moving out of the way, and in that moment also let go of Chloe. From the camera angle, it appeared he stumbled.

Here is the pic of her in the bathing suit & floppy hat, minutes before the accident:

It’s heartbreaking just looking at that picture.

 

[sam_gordon]

the reporter watches the video and does a running commentary all say that he leaned out of the window

Wow. Assuming the bolded is true, doesn't that totally invalidate the "he didn't know it was open" argument?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ropping-toddler-death-cruise-ship-window.html

 

[Lilsia]

Wow. Assuming the bolded is true, doesn't that totally invalidate the "he didn't know it was open" argument?

Yes, it does. And all of the interviews that I have seen all say the same thing when they describe what they are seeing on the video. He knew that the window was open. At best, he did not have a good hold on her. As a parent who has been on several cruises with my children, I can tell you that I had anxiety if my kids got even close to the windows or railings, even knowing that they were closed and too high for them to fall. Even on my last cruise with my daughter being 16, I stood right next to her when we were on the top deck looking out even though the rational part of my brain said that she can not fall. I believe that this man was lacking something in his brain and thought process for him to even get near that open window with her.

 

[Imzadi]

I saw an interview with the lawyer and it made me so angry. One of his statements in blaming the cruise line is that he said that they should have a warning on the railing.!? The railing IS the warning.

It's not only a warning, it's a safeguard.

In NY City, possibly the whole state, we have a law in which any apartment that houses young children must have metal window guards in place over the windows, screwed in to the side window walls. That is because most windows are low enough that young children can simply fall through while looking out, by themselves.

That was the tragic situation with singer, Eric Clapton's son, Connor. For some reason, they didn't have a window guard over that window. It wasn't normally opened. While Connor was out, the maid washed the window and left it open to dry. Connor came back, saw the window open. Curious and excited as he was to discover something new, he ran right past the maid before she could grab him. And he was out the low window before he could be stopped.

A PP poster posted a pic of a father with his 5 yr old son on RC. The window is about 4 ft high. Certainly too high for a young child to fall through on their own. Chloe, if unattended, would have had to pull over a chair, (if she had the strength & know how,) place it up against the open window, then climb up, be high enough, to peer out and be in danger. Hopefully, by that time, some adult would have stopped her.

As for an adult falling through the window, even if one was so drunkenly falling over, that if he slammed against the glass wall & window, the wood railing would presumably stop him from crashing through. The railing is also far enough away from the window to not allow him to get close enough and with enough force to break the window.

HOW would placing a sign on the railing help? Would the grandfather have even READ IT? How many languages would it have to be written in for all the international travelers? Would their next defense be that the grandfather is not only colorblind, but he's illiterate too? Or the sign isn't big enough since he wears glasses? So, would having a sign have even helped?

Wouldn't the sign really need to have said: "Do NOT place children up along the open window as they can fall through"?

This family is holding RC responsible for an unfathomable situation: that a 51 yr old adult would hold a child up against/or through a 4 ft high window, and RC should have had the foresight to warn about what is considered common knowledge. Since the first sailing vessels sailed the seas, and there have been railings, (no windows,) people knew not to perch people or things on the railings as they may fall off. Yet RC is responsible for the ONE MAN who didn't have the common sense & judgement to know that.

I FEEL for this family and their grief. I understand they they are probably looking for someone else to blame so they can get through this and have a relationship with each other. But, really, it's the grandfather's fault.

 

[lifesavacation]

I believe I read in the article that the railing is 18 inches from the window. That’s pretty far away. If true, it doesn’t make sense that he would stand her up on the railing to bang on the window. It’s not a reasonable explanation.

 

[fly girl]

I watched the video. I can't believe I did, but I did. My heart is aching. Actually aching. I have tears streaming down my face.

He poked his head out. He held her out of the window. There is no way he thought there was glass. TAKE THE PLEA DEAL!!!

 

[QueenIsabella]

Okay, I watched the video. He needs to plead guilty.

For those who don't want to see it: it's fuzzy, but you can clearly see Chloe toddling over to the lower window (in a pink bathing suit and floppy white hat, just like the picture before the incident). Grandpa follows a few seconds behind. He leans on the railing and sticks his head out the window for a few seconds. Then he leans (kneels? it's not totally clear) down to Chloe, picks her up, and actually lifts her up by his head. It looks like maybe he is going to put her on his shoulders, rather than put her feet or bottom on the railing. He appears to lean out with her, then she's gone.

There's just no way that he couldn't know the window was open. HE STUCK HIS HEAD OUT, SECONDS BEFORE. I still believe it was an accident, 100%, and my heart breaks for the entire family.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Fly girl, you and I posted at the same time. That video is absolutely heartbreaking (but not gory--just painfully sad).

 

[fly girl]

Fly girl, you and I posted at the same time. That video is absolutely heartbreaking (but not gory--just painfully sad).

I'm still crying. I hope with every fiber of my being the parents didn't watch it. Hard enough for me.

 

[Imzadi]

I watched the video. I can't believe I did, but I did. My heart is aching. Actually aching. I have tears streaming down my face.

He poked his head out. He held her out of the window. There is no way he thought there was glass. TAKE THE PLEA DEAL!!!

Okay, I watched the video. He needs to plead guilty.

For those who don't want to see it: it's fuzzy, but you can clearly see Chloe toddling over to the lower window (in a pink bathing suit and floppy white hat, just like the picture before the incident). Grandpa follows a few seconds behind. He leans on the railing and sticks his head out the window for a few seconds. Then he leans (kneels? it's not totally clear) down to Chloe, picks her up, and actually lifts her up by his head. It looks like maybe he is going to put her on his shoulders, rather than put her feet or bottom on the railing. He appears to lean out with her, then she's gone.

There's just no way that he couldn't know the window was open. HE STUCK HIS HEAD OUT, SECONDS BEFORE. I still believe it was an accident, 100%, and my heart breaks for the entire family.

UGH!!!!

I didn't watch. But, fly girl, it does make a difference hearing about it from someone who's actually been on that exact ship.

And reading QueenIsabella's description of it all is absolutely heartbreaking.