This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[mom to minnie&mickey]

Thank you DLgal for the translation. I can honestly say, after watching the videos from the side and from behind that I do not disagree with one word they said. The family may not agree but seeing is believing and you cannot go around blaming the cruise ship just because you cannot handle/process the fact that your family member killed your baby. I am sure that, at the very least, their lawyer has seen these videos but continue with their charade of blame. The fact is grandpa leaned out the window until the waist, lifted that poor innocent child (who could NEVER have reached that open window on her own) up and at one point held her out the window before sitting/standing her on the ledge. He then shifted her from his right side to his left and at that point within seconds she was gone. No objective person (in the jury) who sees this could come to any other conclusion.

The fact that this tragic death happened on a cruise ship should have no bearing imho. This is a situation that can happen anywhere in any building/home where there is an open window high above the ground and someone decides to lift up a small child to see out and then loses their hold. Little Chloe's death rests on grandpa's decision to do just that.

 

[mom2rtk]

This was no less reckless than if he had held her up on the railing on the edge of the Grand Canyon. I'm glad the footage exists so blame for such a tragic incident ends up where it belongs.

 

[mnrose]

Thank goodness for the videos! Otherwise, Grandpa gets to tell whatever story he wants to the jury. Since it's so unbelievable that he did what he, in fact, did, they might have won. With this video, I don't see how unless you've got a completely irrational jury who just feels sorry for the family.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm still trying to figure out how his defense lawyer says the video is "consistent" with his story.

 

[ronandannette]

thanks DL gal for translating from the video I found interesting what they had to say about the GF and how things happened while the video was hard to watch it answered alot of questions

I can totally understand why the parents or family cant watch it but it would answer the question of what really happened bu then they would have to live with the fact that GF was responisble for what happend to their DD

At this point, with the video having gone viral, it's literally impossible that the parents don't know exactly what happened. They, and certainly their lawyer may have very well known long before now. I could be wrong but I'm not aware of the parents actually making any further media statements after that initial morning-television one, and I have to presume it's because they know. They know. What's really baffling is why the lawsuit hasn't been dropped.

Thank goodness for the videos! Otherwise, Grandpa gets to tell whatever story he wants to the jury. Since it's so unbelievable that he did what he, in fact, did, they might have won. With this video, I don't see how unless you've got a completely irrational jury who just feels sorry for the family.

This, exactly. Heck, many, many posters in this thread gave him the benefit of the doubt - assuming that somehow, there must have been something horrifically dangerous about the ship because nobody could fathom what he actually did.

 

[ronandannette]

I'm still trying to figure out how his defense lawyer says the video is "consistent" with his story.

Look at the emperor's new clothes. That right there is nothing but out-and-out gamesmanship.

 

[mom to minnie&mickey]

I'm still trying to figure out how his defense lawyer says the video is "consistent" with his story.

Agreed. It is "consistent" to the extent that he lifted her up. He admits to that and it ends there. The rest is his fantasy spinning a story (maybe for self-preservation, I don't know).

 

[mjkacmom]

At this point, with the video having gone viral, it's literally impossible that the parents don't know exactly what happened. They, and certainly their lawyer may have very well known long before now. I could be wrong but I'm not aware of the parents actually making any further media statements after that initial morning-television one, and I have to presume it's because they know. They know. What's really baffling is why the lawsuit hasn't been dropped.

This, exactly. Heck, many, many posters in this thread gave him the benefit of the doubt - assuming that somehow, there must have been something horrifically dangerous about the ship because nobody could fathom what he actually did.

If you go back through the posts, I’m going to say there were one or two posters who thought RCL was partly to blame, the vast majority felt the grandfather was to blame.

 

[MrsPete]

I needed to know that this is not something that could happen if you're a watching your child in a reasonable manner.

If you have common sense, cruises are reasonably safe. Prior to this story, how many stories have you heard about children being injured on cruise ships? I'm betting the answer is NONE, and it's not because ships aren't full of children. If they were dangerous, we'd hear more stories like this.

Our children were about 6 and 9 when we took them on their first cruise, and -- like all parents -- we wondered about safety. On the first day my husband and I put the kids into the kids' club and, starting at the top /working our way to the bottom, we "walked the perimeter" actively looking for dangerous spots. What we found: the railings-that-are-open-to-the-ocean are about up to my shoulder (I am very short) and would be super-hard to climb; additionally, they are angled "inward", so climbing onto those railings would be quite difficult. The railings have plexiglass on the "inside", so you couldn't get a "leg up" -- you'd have to have the arm strength to climb up. We found one place on the deck where the lifeboats are stored where -- if you were trying -- you could squeeze between the rails and fall into the ocean. Windows like the ones being discussed did not register with us as being dangerous in the least (and they wouldn't be dangerous without adult help).

The most dangerous place for a child on a cruise ship: a private balcony. A child could -- with the help of a chair -- go over those railings, which are not as high and are straight above the ocean (whereas most public area railings are "tiered" like a wedding cake -- if you fell, you'd fall to a lower floor, just like Chloe did).

Exactly true about most of our parents! And I am sure I wouldn’t have to think hard for mistakes I made. Letting Dd turn upside down in the car seat I forgot to buckle in, comes to mind. And she was my third child and I was taking care of plenty of other people’s babies and toddlers at the time. We all make decisions or choices in a moment and sometimes do not realize till later the danger we put our child in. Unfortunately, this poor man has to live with that for the rest of his life. Whether he spends that time at home or in jail. It’s just so sad and so tragic and so very frightening.

I always trusted my parents (and grandparents) 100% with my kids -- and I expect my children will feel the same way when I'm a grandmother -- but childhood is a long period of time, and no one can be "at full attention" every single minute.

Yes, this poor man (and his family) has to live with his bad choice. I don't think for a minute he did this with any bad intention, but the punishment is severe.

This was no less reckless than if he had held her up on the railing on the edge of the Grand Canyon. I'm glad the footage exists so blame for such a tragic incident ends up where it belongs.

There's no railing at the Grand Canyon. At least not at the North Rim. Just sayin'

I'm still trying to figure out how his defense lawyer says the video is "consistent" with his story.

With this video coming out, the lawyers must know they have no case -- but they're rolling the dice.

 

[QueenIsabella]

At this point, with the video having gone viral, it's literally impossible that the parents don't know exactly what happened. They, and certainly their lawyer may have very well known long before now. I could be wrong but I'm not aware of the parents actually making any further media statements after that initial morning-television one, and I have to presume it's because they know. They know. What's really baffling is why the lawsuit hasn't been dropped.

This, exactly. Heck, many, many posters in this thread gave him the benefit of the doubt - assuming that somehow, there must have been something horrifically dangerous about the ship because nobody could fathom what he actually did.

While the parents may not have made public statements since that one morning interview, the lawsuit against RC was only filed last week, I think. Recently, in any case. I suspect that's why the videos went viral-- in defense of Royal Caribbean.

To be fair, the family may still be processing. This is an enormous thing to have to deal with. I expect it could take them weeks or months to fully arrive at an understanding of what happened. I hope that they find peace.

 

[sam_gordon]

The most dangerous place for a child on a cruise ship: a private balcony. A child could -- with the help of a chair -- go over those railings, which are not as high and are straight above the ocean (whereas most public area railings are "tiered" like a wedding cake -- if you fell, you'd fall to a lower floor, just like Chloe did).

Speaking solely for the ships we've been on, and Freedom of the Seas is one of them, most public areas are NOT "tiered". Chloe didn't fall to a lower floor, she fell to the dock. If the ship had been at sea, she would be in the ocean.

 

[mjkacmom]

If you have common sense, cruises are reasonably safe. Prior to this story, how many stories have you heard about children being injured on cruise ships? I'm betting the answer is NONE, and it's not because ships aren't full of children. If they were dangerous, we'd hear more stories like this.

Our children were about 6 and 9 when we took them on their first cruise, and -- like all parents -- we wondered about safety. On the first day my husband and I put the kids into the kids' club and, starting at the top /working our way to the bottom, we "walked the perimeter" actively looking for dangerous spots. What we found: the railings-that-are-open-to-the-ocean are about up to my shoulder (I am very short) and would be super-hard to climb; additionally, they are angled "inward", so climbing onto those railings would be quite difficult. The railings have plexiglass on the "inside", so you couldn't get a "leg up" -- you'd have to have the arm strength to climb up. We found one place on the deck where the lifeboats are stored where -- if you were trying -- you could squeeze between the rails and fall into the ocean. Windows like the ones being discussed did not register with us as being dangerous in the least (and they wouldn't be dangerous without adult help).

The most dangerous place for a child on a cruise ship: a private balcony. A child could -- with the help of a chair -- go over those railings, which are not as high and are straight above the ocean (whereas most public area railings are "tiered" like a wedding cake -- if you fell, you'd fall to a lower floor, just like Chloe did).
I always trusted my parents (and grandparents) 100% with my kids -- and I expect my children will feel the same way when I'm a grandmother -- but childhood is a long period of time, and no one can be "at full attention" every single minute.

Yes, this poor man (and his family) has to live with his bad choice. I don't think for a minute he did this with any bad intention, but the punishment is severe.
There's no railing at the Grand Canyon. At least not at the North Rim. Just sayin'
With this video coming out, the lawyers must know they have no case -- but they're rolling the dice.

An 8 year old died falling over a railing into the atrium on a carnival ship in 2017.

 

[ronandannette]

While the parents may not have made public statements since that one morning interview, the lawsuit against RC was only filed last week, I think. Recently, in any case. I suspect that's why the videos went viral-- in defense of Royal Caribbean.

To be fair, the family may still be processing. This is an enormous thing to have to deal with. I expect it could take them weeks or months to fully arrive at an understanding of what happened. I hope that they find peace.

I completely agree - I'm associated with many grieving parents. But that makes it even more inappropriate that they came out of the gate the very next day attacking the cruiseline.

 

[ronandannette]

An 8 year old died falling over a railing into the atrium on a carnival ship in 2017.

Totally NOT the fault of the cruiseship. The same thing has happened at at least one Embassy Suites Hotel, which have a huge, central atrium with open railings from each floor. Totally NOT the fault of the cruiseship.

https://abc7.com/news/3-year-old-dies-after-5th-story-fall-at-anaheim-hotel/866484/

 

[mjkacmom]

Totally NOT the fault of the cruiseship. The same thing has happened at at least one Embassy Suites Hotel, which have a huge, central atrium with open railings from each floor. Totally NOT the fault of the cruiseship.

https://abc7.com/news/3-year-old-dies-after-5th-story-fall-at-anaheim-hotel/866484/

I was responding to a poster who said kids don’t get hurt or killed on cruise ships, accidents happen everywhere. I never said the cruise line was at fault.

 

[sam_gordon]

An 8 year old died falling over a railing into the atrium on a carnival ship in 2017.

And there have been multiple drownings on multiple lines.

 

[ronandannette]

I was responding to a poster who said kids don’t get hurt or killed on cruise ships, accidents happen everywhere. I never said the cruise line was at fault.

Sorry if I misinterpreted what your point was, but looking back through it, I didn't read her post as saying that at all. She gave a fairly detailed explanation of what the hazards of falling off the ship are. Given the number of children who sail each year, it would be statistically impossible for there never to be any injuries or even sadly, fatalities. A kid drowned in a DCL pool a year or two ago. Yes, of course these things happen.

 

[mjkacmom]

Sorry if I misinterpreted what your point was, but looking back through it, I didn't read her post as saying that at all. She gave a fairly detailed explanation of what the hazards of falling off the ship are. Given the number of children who sail each year, it would be statistically impossible for there never to be any injuries or even sadly, fatalities. A kid drowned in a DCL pool a year or two ago. Yes, of course these things happen.

This is If you have common sense, cruises are reasonably safe. Prior to this story, how many stories have you heard about children being injured on cruise ships? I'm betting the answer is NONE, and it's not because ships aren't full of children. If they were dangerous, we'd hear more stories like this.

 

[msjprincess]

I completely agree - I'm associated with many grieving parents. But that makes it even more inappropriate that they came out of the gate the very next day attacking the cruiseline.

I agree. They had a lawyer talking to the media less than 24 hours after the accident.

 

[mjkacmom]

I agree. They had a lawyer talking to the media less than 24 hours after the accident.

Do you really think they contacted a lawyer? They were prey.