Tipping question on dining plan

[Lewisc]

Nothing like making up or assuming some facts to support your position.

QueenT said her daughter would be ecstatic to get an 18% tip. Based on that statement why are you assuming an average tip of 15%?

QueenT also said

will be dead spots while they wait the table to be cleared, the host to seat the guests, etc. Sometimes a long wait. They also have seasonal slow/busy times that impact income

Based on that statement why are you assuming her tables will be occupied 63-83% (2.5 divided by 3 or 4) of the time? You're ignoring a slow lunch period in which she might have only 1 or 2 parties over a 2 hour period. You've never walked into a restaurant after the lunch rush and found it more than half empty? A restaurant paying a server only $2.50/hour will over staff hoping for business.

I agree the after tax reference is a red herring.

You're looking at Disney restaurants during peak dining hours during a busy time. Go during the slow weeks and you'll see a lot of restaurants half empty.

You posted a link to justify your postion that 10% is a normal tip for a buffet. You should accept the fact that 15-20% is a normal tip for a table service restaurant. Diners in expensive restaurants tend to take 2 hours to eat. Some of the food items may be prepared/served at the table. The waiter spends more time explaining the item and checking up on the customer needs.

Based on the facts you provided it is very hard to imagine coming up with a $10/hour figure. You stated that she gets $2.50/hour in salary, so you're saying that her tips are only $7.50/hour??? You already stated that she serves 3-4 tables per hour with an average bill of $80. You stated that some pay 20% and some pay a lot less. Let's assume an average of 15% on an average of 2.5 tables per hour (which allows for down time on the 3-4 tables per hour average). That still works out to $30/hour in tips. Let's assume she has to turn 25% of that over to the bus boys. You're still at $22.50, plus $2.50 in salary for a total of $25/ hour. That's a far cry from $10/hour!!! Even if my assumptions and math are off by a little, they certainly aren't off by that much! You mentioned "after-taxes"...let's keep in mind that salary is measured net unless you're analyzing personal finances. When was the last time you were offered a job and the offer was made on a net basis? Taxes differ greatly by person and are not expected to be deducted when throwing around salary figures. The assumptions I made about the amount Disney servers must be making were gross salary amounts. Of course taxes, insurance, etc. must come out of that. Those are expenses...not salary.

To address the other part of this topic, it would be hard to compare Disney to a non-Disney server job. For one, they are booked to capacity from the time the restaurant opens until the time it closes, every single day (this may be new since the DDP, but that's the way it is now). Tables are not empty for long at all. There is less than 5 minutes between the time that one party leaves and the next is seated, so down-time is minimal. Prices are much higher...even without alcohol, you can't feed a family of 4 for $80 at Disney. I'd venture to say that the average bill for a family of 4 at a non-buffet TS in Disney is somewhere in the $125-$175 range. Some of the buffets come close to $80 if you are paying child's price for two of the meals, but you can't really compare the buffets to sit-downs since the servers do a lot less work (although in Disney they still get 18% guaranteed).

 

[Stitch65]

My goodness! How did this thread turn into a tippping ethics war? Who cares how much the waitstaff makes? If I have good service, I tip. If someone doesn't want to tip, they don't have to. That's the whole reason it's called a "tip." If it was meant to be a set amount, it would be included in the bill. Oh wait, it IS included in the DDP. Which was the OP's question. Whether or not to tip more is up to the individual. It's not up to a stranger on the Disboard. If WDW waiters happen to make more than other waiters, hey that's life. Salaries change from state to state, city to city and restaurant to restaurant. That's life.

 

[formernyer]

Nothing like making up or assuming some facts to support your position.

QueenT said her daughter would be ecstatic to get an 18% tip. Based on that statement why are you assuming an average tip of 15%?

QueenT also said Based on that statement why are you assuming her tables will be occupied 63-83% (2.5 divided by 3 or 4) of the time? You're ignoring a slow lunch period in which she might have only 1 or 2 parties over a 2 hour period. You've never walked into a restaurant after the lunch rush and found it more than half empty? A restaurant paying a server only $2.50/hour will over staff hoping for business.

I agree the after tax reference is a red herring.

SHE stated, "It is usually busy there"
This statement suggests that normally the servers are fully utilized

SHE stated, "servers cover 3 - 4 tables max. Turnover is maybe 1hr per table"
I assumed 2.5 tables to allow for down time.

SHE stated, "Some people tip more than 20%, many tip less, sometimes much less"
Not many people will leave less than $8 on an $80 bill. Most would leave at least $12. Many will leave $16. Some will leave more. I think assuming an average of 15% would be fair, but even if she averaged 10% (which we both know is ridiculously low for an average) she would still be making $20/hour in tips, or around $15/hour after paying off the bus boys. Add in her salary and you're at $17.50/hour. That's a heck of a lot more than $10/hour!!!

Lewisc have you worked as a server before? I have.


I honestly think Lewisc just gets his thrills out of flaming people, trying to prove them wrong, or casting moral/ethical judgments on others.

 

[formernyer]

My goodness! How did this thread turn into a tippping ethics war? Who cares how much the waitstaff makes? If I have good service, I tip. If someone doesn't want to tip, they don't have to. That's the whole reason it's called a "tip." If it was meant to be a set amount, it would be included in the bill. Oh wait, it IS included in the DDP. Which was the OP's question. Whether or not to tip more is up to the individual. It's not up to a stranger on the Disboard. If WDW waiters happen to make more than other waiters, hey that's life. Salaries change from state to state, city to city and restaurant to restaurant. That's life.

Agreed

 

[Lewisc]

Actually she said

will be dead spots while they wait the table to be cleared, the host to seat the guests, etc. Sometimes a long wait. They also have seasonal slow/busy times that impact income

That suggest the servers are not normally fully utilized.

You're the one who seemed to get a thrill out of "proving" the servers daughter made at least 2.5 times the amount the mother said she made.

I'm not flamming anyone or even making a moral judgement.

You're the one posting "facts" that aren't true, I suggest you add me to your ignore list since I seem to bother you.

SHE stated, "It is usually busy there"
This statement suggests that normally the servers are fully utilized


I honestly think Lewisc just gets his thrills out of flaming people, trying to prove them wrong, or casting moral/ethical judgments on others.

 

[Lewisc]

Very good post. I don't know why one poster saw the need to use this thread to object to normally tipping guidelines.

My goodness! How did this thread turn into a tippping ethics war? Who cares how much the waitstaff makes? If I have good service, I tip. If someone doesn't want to tip, they don't have to. That's the whole reason it's called a "tip." If it was meant to be a set amount, it would be included in the bill. Oh wait, it IS included in the DDP. Which was the OP's question. Whether or not to tip more is up to the individual. It's not up to a stranger on the Disboard. If WDW waiters happen to make more than other waiters, hey that's life. Salaries change from state to state, city to city and restaurant to restaurant. That's life.

 

[formernyer]

.

You're the one who seemed to get a thrill out of "proving" the servers daughter made at least 2.5 times the amount the mother said she made.

Ok, I guess you can assume her mother is correct about the $10/hr. That would mean that, on average, her daughter serves one table per hour and the customers leave approximately 12% tip.

I think we both know that's just not accurate.

Nobody would work at that place if it was that bad.

And FWIW, we have a Macaroni Grill near my town and I can assure you that even during the slowest times the servers are handling more than one table per hour.

 

[KarenAylwood]

Thanks for your rudeness, but you basically just reinforced my point. The server at my $120 lunch received close to $22 as a tip. We were in the restaurant for approximately 75 minutes. That works out to $17.60 per hour from my table alone. He was handling 4 tables that I could tell (maybe more). This means that he was guaranteed tips of $70.40 per hour, which equates to approximately $150,000 per year in tips alone. I won't speculate on what his salary is (and I'm sure it isn't much), but that's just icing on the cake. I'm sure he has to give up a portion of his tips to the bus boys, but it certainly wouldn't be more than 25%. Looks to me like the servers are making WELL OVER $100k per year just to take orders, carry food to the table, and smile pretty.

Go ahead and flame me, but I think 18% is a VERY generous tip, and especially so in the expensive restaurants where the bill is higher for only slightly enhanced service.

QueenT mentioned she was interested in how much these waiters/waitresses make a year:

I just wanted to say that I recently met a waitress that used to work at the Garden Grill in Epcot. She has since moved to NY to be closer to family, but said that it was one of the best waitressing jobs around. She made approximately $120,000 per year after taxes working there (as many know, most waitstaff do not claim all of their tips as they should). We asked about working at CRT (a restaurant we've been too and knew was $$$, we weren't that familiar w/ the Garden Grill). She said that in order to work at CRT you had to have AT LEAST 10-15 years experience and they make approximately $180,000 per year or more.

I also think that 18% is a generous tip. While I usually tip 20% at restaurants when I go out, I agree that the prices at WDW are inflated. These people are not just trying to make ends meet like the rest of the staff at Disney. I'd rather throw a few bucks at the nice CM who assists me in finding a bathroom or entertains me on the Jungle Cruise (who's making less than $7 an hour) than adding on a few dollars to an already fair tip. And to make an 18% tip on a buffet is insane to me.

 

[formernyer]

QueenT mentioned she was interested in how much these waiters/waitresses make a year:

I just wanted to say that I recently met a waitress that used to work at the Garden Grill in Epcot. She has since moved to NY to be closer to family, but said that it was one of the best waitressing jobs around. She made approximately $120,000 per year after taxes working there (as many know, most waitstaff do not claim all of their tips as they should). We asked about working at CRT (a restaurant we've been too and knew was $$$, we weren't that familiar w/ the Garden Grill). She said that in order to work at CRT you had to have AT LEAST 10-15 years experience and they make approximately $180,000 per year or more.

I also think that 18% is a generous tip. While I usually tip 20% at restaurants when I go out, I agree that the prices at WDW are inflated. These people are not just trying to make ends meet like the rest of the staff at Disney. I'd rather throw a few bucks at the nice CM who assists me in finding a bathroom or entertains me on the Jungle Cruise (who's making less than $7 an hour) than adding on a few dollars to an already fair tip. And to make an 18% tip on a buffet is insane to me.

I agree with you 100%.

Contrary to what everybody probably seems to assume about me from my posts in this thread, I'm not a total cheapskate. There are a lot of Disney workers who get practically NO tips and I think really deserve them (like the ones who dress up in hot fur costumes in August and allow 5-year olds to cry on them, bite them, etc.). I just happen to feel that the TS servers at Disney are overpaid for what they do and I agree that I'd rather give my tip money to the people who get very little for their effort..

I knew there was no logical way that the Disney TS servers could possibly be making less than $100k/year, but I obviously had no way to prove it. All I could do was draw rational assumptions and get attacked by Lewis.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

but simply put...he's serving around 4 tables at a time...that's $200 an hour. I'm by no means trying to put down waiters, but I honestly don't believe it's a job which deserves wages of $200 per hour. Most college graduates with many, many years of work experience never earn that high a wage in their life

Most of your post, I understand where you're coming from. But this is gonna get you flamed. Rather than flame (you'll get enough of that from others) let me just tell ya a bit of a story.

When I was 8, my mother complained that garbagemen made more than she did with a degree and 20 years experience. Being the naive kid, I suggested she go be a garbagewoman. When she told me why she didn't want to be one of those I pretty much just said well maybe they get paid more than you do because nobody wants to be a garbageman and they have to pay that much to get someone to do it. In essense, my mother was complaining about the wages of someone who worked a job she was unwilling to do even at that wage. After that, I pretty much don't worry about whether others were overpaid. My mother seemed very petty that day.

Now back to the waiter. If the kid can work his **** off and kiss other peoples arses off and make $200 an hour, more power to him. in my book. He certainly earned our tip. And as you can probably gather from my previous posts, I don't give a bump up in tip lightly. But I highly doubt he's making $200 an hour on a consistant basis for several reasons.
1. The turnaround time for a table at a better establishment is generally longer than that at your typical American Bistro. It's about 1.5-2 times longer in fact.
2. We were on the meal plan and ran it up. I never would have had my entree (which ended up over $40 with add ons.) I'd have had the $15 rigatoni instead. You can easily get out of Spoodles under $100 (family of 3 adults one child by Disney age criteria just as easily as we got out of there for what we did.
3. $200 an hour would be $1800 on an 8 hour shift or $8,000 a week. If that were the case, Disney would be swamped with applicants.

 

[disneymom3]

Well ethics aside, I think an 18% tip is just dandy and in my waitressing days would have loved to get 18% whether at the snazzy resort I worked at or the ice cream and burger joint. I will not be leaving an extra tip and I will not be feeling guilty about it.

 

[glass-slipper]

Well ethics aside, I think an 18% tip is just dandy and in my waitressing days would have loved to get 18% whether at the snazzy resort I worked at or the ice cream and burger joint. I will not be leaving an extra tip and I will not be feeling guilty about it.

I agree. I'd leave extra if the service was amazing, other than that the 18% is fine by me.

 

[Maria395712]

I live in Nj my daughter only makes 2.13 an hour works 10-12 hours on sat and sun. she is a full time college student they have to tip bussers , host and food runners .I tip eveywhere I go extra because of what I know and I tip valet in and out .I know off subject but tipping is a sore spot
that 18% isn't all theirs and they pay taxes on what tips they think they should make [ the company] she doesn't get a pay her checks are void all taken for taxes
maria

 

[KarenAylwood]

I live in Nj my daughter only makes 2.13 an hour works 10-12 hours on sat and sun. she is a full time college student they have to tip bussers , host and food runners .I tip eveywhere I go extra because of what I know and I tip valet in and out .I know off subject but tipping is a sore spot
that 18% isn't all theirs and they pay taxes on what tips they think they should make [ the company] she doesn't get a pay her checks are void all taken for taxes
maria

Did you read my earlier post? These waiters/waitresses are not your average. Tipping at a chain/local restaurant is different than at WDW. These employees are making over $100,000 per year- WAYY more than the average college student trying to make an extra buck. I tip 20% or more as long as the service was satisfactory, more if good (I've tipped 30% before if service is outstanding). At Disney I think 18% is more than enough- especially since the prices are inflated.

 

[Lewisc]

I knew there was no logical way that the Disney TS servers could possibly be making less than $100k/year, but I obviously had no way to prove it. All I could do was draw rational assumptions and get attacked by Lewis.

Either take the time to read what I post or don't bother commenting.

The "attack" was when you wrote a long post, making up facts along the way, in order to contradict what QueenT said her daughter made at a local chain restaurant.

You complain about being attacked but you all but called Queen T a liar based on a bunch of BS assumptions.

Your assumptions about Disney waiters depend on the time of year and restaurant. A restaurant like CRT is busy year round but many of the other restaurants are not busy during the off peak times.

 

[formernyer]

Either take the time to read what I post or don't bother commenting.

The "attack" was when you wrote a long post, making up facts along the way, in order to contradict what QueenT said her daughter made at a local chain restaurant.

You complain about being attacked but you all but called Queen T a liar based on a bunch of BS assumptions.

Your assumptions about Disney waiters depend on the time of year and restaurant. A restaurant like CRT is busy year round but many of the other restaurants are not busy during the off peak times.

You spend so much effort criticizing, judging, and attacking people in all of your posts that you can't even remember all of your attacks. Please refer to your post on page 1 of this thread (post #15 to be exact). That is the post I was referring to, not the ones about the woman's daughter.

And FWIW, your comment was wrong anyway. You said that you highly doubted that the average cost of a lunch at Coral Reef would be $120? That was the cost for one adult and two children (ordering from the children's menu). We ordered NO seafood at all, which were the priciest things on the menu. I see very little possibility for a family of four to eat lunch in that restaurant (including appetizers and dessert) for LESS than $150.

 

[Maria395712]

karenaylwood
no I didn't .but I think my daughter and I better both get a job at disney if they make that much even with the bad tippers. I will look next time I go to CRT ansd see if they all look over 28 years old at least, since they need at least 10 years experience but way off subject here . I will leave extra when they are good , 15 % when they are not, and now let's get into tipping at the buffet.I still have to do 15-20 and when I get FREE dining I will leave extra it didn't cost me anything but that's just me
maria

 

[mom2my3kids]

WOW 150,000 is a lot of money.. I wish I made that much or even close to that much serving tables where I live. I work part time so I can stay at home with my kids the other 4 days a week and it works for us. But let me tell you, there are more cheap people out there then non cheap people. If I had good service I would tip a bit extra but that is just me. If I were someone else and not a server, I would not feel guilty about not tipping extra because 18% is added on already..

 

[ReneeA]

When we were there last August on the free dining plan, *most* servers were only given 15% tip on the dining plan. We had *great* service for the most part while we were there, and if we were home, would have tipped them 25%.

So, we added a tip to make up the difference.

 

[QueenT]

Based on the facts you provided it is very hard to imagine coming up with a $10/hour figure. You stated that she gets $2.50/hour in salary, so you're saying that her tips are only $7.50/hour??? You already stated that she serves 3-4 tables per hour with an average bill of $80. You stated that some pay 20% and some pay a lot less. Let's assume an average of 15% on an average of 2.5 tables per hour (which allows for down time on the 3-4 tables per hour average). That still works out to $30/hour in tips. Let's assume she has to turn 25% of that over to the bus boys. You're still at $22.50, plus $2.50 in salary for a total of $25/ hour. That's a far cry from $10/hour!!! Even if my assumptions and math are off by a little, they certainly aren't off by that much! You mentioned "after-taxes"...let's keep in mind that salary is measured net unless you're analyzing personal finances. When was the last time you were offered a job and the offer was made on a net basis? Taxes differ greatly by person and are not expected to be deducted when throwing around salary figures. The assumptions I made about the amount Disney servers must be making were gross salary amounts. Of course taxes, insurance, etc. must come out of that. Those are expenses...not salary.

WOW! Sorry Formernyer, looks like I struck a nerve. I really wasn't trying to get into nitty gritty details of server life or salary, I was just curious about such a big annual total when I compare it to my daughter's salary. Also your assumptions seemed to be based on a flawed view of the number of tips that would be obtained during a 3-5hr shift.

Just to clarify:

1) I am quite familiar with net vs gross, I just talked about net because I wasn't really doing a detailed financial analysis. She is a single parent so close attention is paid to this aspect. My daughter does make about 10$/hr net, maybe 15$/hr gross. I pick her up from work quite often & take her to the bank to make her deposits.

2) I sincerely doubt her avg tip is 15%. There are a few customers who tip 20% or more, there are a lot more who tip very little, or they tip 10% but don't order much. We live in an affluent area, however customer base is quite varied, in age & in cultural base. They certainly do not require a minimum tip, & tips vary from 1$ or coins to the rare (but thrilling) 50 or 60$ tip. I know my daughter is very happy with a 10$ tip.

3) Once she is on the clock, she may be doing any number of things, like setting up, closing down, waiting for the host to seat her, waiting for the guests who are done eating to leave, etc. Even on a wait all tables are never all full, in fact they are not supposed to seat more than one table in a section at one time, or the server can't easily provide the service they are supposed to.

Anyway, that is all by the way. The point is that I will tip 20% as a standard. I will tip extra since I am getting free dining if I am very happy with the service (as I have been previously), that way I can share the MAGIC with the CMs.

Sounds like you are overdue for a dose of the Magic yourself, I know I am. My trip is 6 months away, seems like forever!