Today Show Story About GAC Abuse

[JeRmS]

It is only valid for the length of your stay. A local with an AP could still get one every visit or declare their "Stay" to be a week or two at a time. You don't have to return it (hard to enforce) because it expires.

as a local with AP our GAC is issued for a 2 month period, after that we have to go back to Guest Services and request another.

 

[rewardsinlife]

Ok I go to Disneyland and DCA frequently as I live in CA and I use the GAC
/ wheelchair entrance.

This is what I noticed from the segment.
1. Disneyland is an old park and therefore, many of the disabled entrances are through the exits( ESP. In fantasyland). Note: the only exits they showed were the teacups and Alice and wonderland. They failed to show the usually longer lines for alternate entrance like a Peter Pan, Dumbo, and often times triple the wait for its a small world.

2. Star tours only showed half the line..the part where it breaks off about 3/4 the way through the line. The camera failed to show the line and building to the left that is the majority of the line..and is Ada accessible. Btw, it was not a set up, the stairs are there in the hallway. The elevator is to the right. The entrance actually serves as a double entrance for those who need the elevator and as a cast entrance/exit( hence the stairs). Funny though that the man seemed to trek up those stairs without hesitation...

3. Did not show the line for splash mountain ..and believe me there is one for the alternate entrance! Also one of the people in the group actually had a red single rider pass so they also used this to help them through the alternate entrance line 'quicker'. Also did not show the line that waits for the exit in Pirates.

4. What they didn't show. Space mountain- usually a good 1 hr-3 hr. wait on somewhat busy days. The ADA accessible lines: mattahorn, haunted mansion, toy story astro blasters...etc. notice they also steered clear of ca adventure which has ALL ADA accessible lines.

It is truly frustrating. I kind of laughed though when they showed both passes and each not only had their name but AP number on the bottom as well. I am sure Disney will be contacting them shortly...

 

[KPeveler]

Two things:

Never been to D-Land in Cali, but it looks like most of their queues are outside whereas WDW in Florida has a lot of indoor queues. Found that interesting.

I was taken aback by the two people on the Today Show expose that didn't feel any remorse or had a moral problem with what they are doing. I thought about it further and I think their point, although still kinda messed up, is that Disney offers VIP tours for anywhere between $315 to $380 per hour and the tour also gets you on certain popular rides without waiting in line.

They probably feel that they are providing the same thing a VIP tour provides, but at a much lower cost (one was $50 per hour and the other $100, I think) and someone that needs that extra income is getting it rather than a multi-billion dollar corporation.

What they are missing is the point that they are mis-using something that Disney happily provides to the people that should have it, the GAC. If the reason you got the GAC to begin with was for a temporary condition (hurt/broke your leg or ankle a week before your vacation) then you should have to return it at the end of your stay--or it's only valid for the length of your stay.

GACs are only valid for the length of stay. The longest you can get a GAC without an Annual Pass is a week.

If you are an Annual Passholder, you can get a GAC for 2 months. But they write your AP number on the card, so there are many ways for Disney to identify who these people are. At least in CA, Disney takes photos attached to all APs and longer tickets. These people selling their "services" plainly are Annual Passholders. Now Disney will use the video to find their names, and I bet the next time they go to the parks, their AP will be revoked (Disney reserves the right to do that in the contract you sign).

Oh, and even if it is revoked, if they are on a monthly payment plan, they have to keep paying!

 

[KPeveler]

Thanks, I couldn't figure out the difference but I knew there had to bea reason.

Yep, I cannot be made to prove my disability for EQUAL access. There is no GAC which is automatically FOTL pass. There are some times on not very crowded days when a CM may put a GAC/wheelchair party on faster than the standby line just to keep the wheelchair/GAC line from backing up.

The only FOTL pass is for Make A Wish kids and other such programs. They have a special GAC which no one can get without showing proof from the programs (including dr sign off). This is SPECIAL access.

 

[KPeveler]

Here is a photo I took on an average Saturday of the wheelchair/accessible/alternate/GAC entrance (there is only this, which is also the ride exit and the standard queue which has stairs. This is a Saturday DURING THE OFF SEASON!

It took me 3 photos to try to get the whole line, and I still missed some of it.

This line is crowded, loud, and long. Longer than the standby that day. Also, there is a store on one side of the line, and the exit crowds on the other.

Convenient how the NBC report never showed things like this...

 

[FortForever]

I kind of laughed though when they showed both passes and each not only had their name but AP number on the bottom as well. I am sure Disney will be contacting them shortly...

I love this! Geniuses.

Now Disney will use the video to find their names, and I bet the next time they go to the parks, their AP will be revoked (Disney reserves the right to do that in the contract you sign).

Oh, and even if it is revoked, if they are on a monthly payment plan, they have to keep paying!

Can't wait to see the follow up story.

These people may not care that this is unethical and immoral, but they sure will care once the reality sets in. Using one's AP to run a business is likely covered in the contract. I personally have never read it, even though I have an AP, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

I know Disney is not allowed to ask for proof for equal access, but maybe they should start for stamps that allow use of fastpass lines. That is not equal, it is clearly better. If I were asking for one of these GACs, I would have zero objection to that.

Since they have already been in touch with the ADA over this, maybe something like this is in the works.

 

[Mama Who]

as a local with AP our GAC is issued for a 2 month period, after that we have to go back to Guest Services and request another.

Wow, as long as that? Convenient. It does seem like at a certain point GS would just see you coming and go, "yeah, yeah, you again..." and get your card ready without too much discussion. Nice that it's 2 months.

 

[AddictedtoDoleWhip]

Ok I go to Disneyland and DCA frequently as I live in CA and I use the GAC
/ wheelchair entrance.

This is what I noticed from the segment.
1. Disneyland is an old park and therefore, many of the disabled entrances are through the exits( ESP. In fantasyland). Note: the only exits they showed were the teacups and Alice and wonderland. They failed to show the usually longer lines for alternate entrance like a Peter Pan, Dumbo, and often times triple the wait for its a small world.

2. Star tours only showed half the line..the part where it breaks off about 3/4 the way through the line. The camera failed to show the line and building to the left that is the majority of the line..and is Ada accessible. Btw, it was not a set up, the stairs are there in the hallway. The elevator is to the right. The entrance actually serves as a double entrance for those who need the elevator and as a cast entrance/exit( hence the stairs). Funny though that the man seemed to trek up those stairs without hesitation...

3. Did not show the line for splash mountain ..and believe me there is one for the alternate entrance! Also one of the people in the group actually had a red single rider pass so they also used this to help them through the alternate entrance line 'quicker'. Also did not show the line that waits for the exit in Pirates.

4. What they didn't show. Space mountain- usually a good 1 hr-3 hr. wait on somewhat busy days. The ADA accessible lines: mattahorn, haunted mansion, toy story astro blasters...etc. notice they also steered clear of ca adventure which has ALL ADA accessible lines.

It is truly frustrating. I kind of laughed though when they showed both passes and each not only had their name but AP number on the bottom as well. I am sure Disney will be contacting them shortly...

Just speaking from experience, at least with the Matterhorn, when I was with my friend (and it was extremely crowded that day) we didn't have a wheelchair or ECV, but when we showed the CM the GAC pass we were allowed into the loading lines (we didn't have to go to the wrap around the mountain, which is how long the line was.. it was about a 45-50 minute wait stand-by) and we were in a different line than the SB, and got in about 5 minutes after getting into that line. (there were no ECVs or Wheelchairs in this line at all..) so in actuality we waited maybe 10 minutes. [My friend needs the GAC.] I won't go into detail about the other rides, I don't want to cause trouble but really even in those lines you mentioned the line was shorter than the SB line, even when we got to the part where we were mixed with the others.

 

[KPeveler]

Just speaking from experience, at least with the Matterhorn, when I was with my friend (and it was extremely crowded that day) we didn't have a wheelchair or ECV, but when we showed the CM the GAC pass we were allowed into the loading lines (we didn't have to go to the wrap around the mountain, which is how long the line was.. it was about a 45-50 minute wait stand-by) and we were in a different line than the SB, and got in about 5 minutes after getting into that line. (there were no ECVs or Wheelchairs in this line at all..) so in actuality we waited maybe 10 minutes. [My friend needs the GAC.] I won't go into detail about the other rides, I don't want to cause trouble but really even in those lines you mentioned the line was shorter than the SB line, even when we got to the part where we were mixed with the others.

It depends entirely on the stamp one has for the GAC. There are somewhere between 6 and 12 stamps (even I don't know exactly how many) and the majority would not allow you entrance in this fashion. I do not argue with the fact that your friend needs the GAC (I have one too). I am just saying that the Matterhorn line is considered accessible (up to a certain point - wheelchairs and turnstiles/narrow queues do not mesh well), so pretty much all GACs and all wheelchairs/ECVs get to wait in the regular, usually long line.

What most people do not know is that there is Single Rider for that attraction - just ask at the ride exit. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but it may be an option for some families, especially doing baby/PWD swap

 

[KPeveler]

I know Disney is not allowed to ask for proof for equal access, but maybe they should start for stamps that allow use of fastpass lines. That is not equal, it is clearly better. If I were asking for one of these GACs, I would have zero objection to that.

Since they have already been in touch with the ADA over this, maybe something like this is in the works.

There is no stamp that allows use of Fastpass lines. There is no stamp which does this automatically. It is up to the CM at the head of the line, the lead, and others working the ride to judge whether the best way to handle that particular GAC.

The one stamp that people think allows instant FP access really does not in DL. People with a GAC that has them accessing the ride in a way other than the mainstream queue often wait with the wheelchair/accessible line - even if there is a FP line. This is almost always true at Splash, Space, and BTMRR (only 1 or 2 other rides with FP lines in DL). And the accessible entrance line for all three of the mountains is just as long as the standby - and usually longer.

If there are FPs still available, a CM may tell a person with some GACs to get a FP for the ride.

 

[AddictedtoDoleWhip]

There is no stamp that allows use of Fastpass lines. There is no stamp which does this automatically. It is up to the CM at the head of the line, the lead, and others working the ride to judge whether the best way to handle that particular GAC.

The one stamp that people think allows instant FP access really does not in DL. People with a GAC that has them accessing the ride in a way other than the mainstream queue often wait with the wheelchair/accessible line - even if there is a FP line. This is almost always true at Splash, Space, and BTMRR (only 1 or 2 other rides with FP lines in DL). And the accessible entrance line for all three of the mountains is just as long as the standby - and usually longer.

If there are FPs still available, a CM may tell a person with some GACs to get a FP for the ride.

Like you said it's all about how the CM feels how to use the GAC. I know that they generally send my friend through the FP line if there is one and the ones that don't have a FP line my friend is sent with the other wheelchairs but she doesn't generally go on rides in FL because she does t like that land much and she likes pirates and haunted mansion early in the morning so we don't have a huge line in SB.

And single rider works for me because I can handle it but my friend can't.

 

[FortForever]

There is no stamp that allows use of Fastpass lines. There is no stamp which does this automatically. It is up to the CM at the head of the line, the lead, and others working the ride to judge whether the best way to handle that particular GAC.

The one stamp that people think allows instant FP access really does not in DL. People with a GAC that has them accessing the ride in a way other than the mainstream queue often wait with the wheelchair/accessible line - even if there is a FP line. This is almost always true at Splash, Space, and BTMRR (only 1 or 2 other rides with FP lines in DL). And the accessible entrance line for all three of the mountains is just as long as the standby - and usually longer.

If there are FPs still available, a CM may tell a person with some GACs to get a FP for the ride.

I'll admit that all my knowledge of GAC and stamps comes from reading on here. I have no experience. I'm just going by what people have said.

It seems to be pretty clear that WDW and DL handle things quite different. And since the show was on DL, I imagine that is where they are concentrating efforts first. I'm not sure which park the original article was talking about. I can't remember.

The one thing I do believe to be true is that changes are coming for all GACs in all parks. This is pure speculation based on the fact that Disney is in contact with ADA over it. I'm sure they are working on a fair system that is less easily exploited.

I'm also guessing that the days of hiring themselves out as tour guides are over for all those that were doing it. Maybe some sort of database, linked to a person's AP or account, would help with that.

Regardless, I expect we will be seeing some changes in some way.

 

[stitchlovestink]

GACs are only valid for the length of stay. The longest you can get a GAC without an Annual Pass is a week.

If you are an Annual Passholder, you can get a GAC for 2 months. But they write your AP number on the card, so there are many ways for Disney to identify who these people are. At least in CA, Disney takes photos attached to all APs and longer tickets. These people selling their "services" plainly are Annual Passholders. Now Disney will use the video to find their names, and I bet the next time they go to the parks, their AP will be revoked (Disney reserves the right to do that in the contract you sign).

Oh, and even if it is revoked, if they are on a monthly payment plan, they have to keep paying!

bolding is mine....
Not true in WDW... I have gotten a GAC for 10 day trips, 12 day trips, etc.. multiple times during times I have not had an AP. But I think longer trips are more common in WDW than DL.

I have had an AP more than once now. And I have gotten Many gac's with my various AP and not once, ever, have they written my AP # on my gac. Just in the last year have they actually asked to see the pass itself. And my AP does not have my picture on it. It is a paper ticket...just my name...that's all. I think WDW must do things considerably different than DL.

 

[SueM in MN]

Isn't anyone wondering why the policy at DLR and WDW seem so different that this allowed those people to go to the front of the line? I was under the impression that the GAC didn't do that... I wonder if it's going to come out that some employees were padding their pockets a little bit to let these groups skip lines?

My only Internet access right now is on my iPhone, so I can read (good thing I can read tiny words), but writing is hard.

As others mentioned - the biggest difference is that most of WDW is accessible, while much of Disneyland is not.

As attractions were renovated or changed, WDW has the space to add accessible entrances. Disneyland pretty much didn't. So few attractions at WDW are not accessible, while many at Disneyland are not.

Disney's California Adventure Park was built later and is much more accessible. In fact, on website I found that was talking about 'pretending to be disabled' said it wasn't 'worth it' at that park because it is 'too accessible.'

I watched it today and I was surprised to see the party sent to a special entrance that included a set of steep stairs. Did anyone else see that? I wondered if that scene was some kind of setup rather than one provided by "undercover" cameras? It made me doubt the whole piece. Also, isn't Today Show owned by Disney?

Other posters who are familiar with Disneyland explained, but I wanted to point out that the original newspaper story and the 'disabled tour guide' that were mentioned in the story were Walt Disney World, not Disneyland.

Because of the less accessible design of Disneyland, it makes a more 'disturbing' story though.

There is no stamp that allows use of Fastpass lines. There is no stamp which does this automatically. It is up to the CM at the head of the line, the lead, and others working the ride to judge whether the best way to handle that particular GAC.

The one stamp that people think allows instant FP access really does not in DL. People with a GAC that has them accessing the ride in a way other than the mainstream queue often wait with the wheelchair/accessible line - even if there is a FP line. This is almost always true at Splash, Space, and BTMRR (only 1 or 2 other rides with FP lines in DL). And the accessible entrance line for all three of the mountains is just as long as the standby - and usually longer.

If there are FPs still available, a CM may tell a person with some GACs to get a FP for the ride.

I agree.
That is our experience with WDW.

I'll admit that all my knowledge of GAC and stamps comes from reading on here. I have no experience. I'm just going by what people have said.

It seems to be pretty clear that WDW and DL handle things quite different. And since the show was on DL, I imagine that is where they are concentrating efforts first. I'm not sure which park the original article was talking about. I can't remember.

The one thing I do believe to be true is that changes are coming for all GACs in all parks. This is pure speculation based on the fact that Disney is in contact with ADA over it. I'm sure they are working on a fair system that is less easily exploited.

I'm also guessing that the days of hiring themselves out as tour guides are over for all those that were doing it. Maybe some sort of database, linked to a person's AP or account, would help with that.

Regardless, I expect we will be seeing some changes in some way.

The ADA is the Americans with Disabilities Act - it's a law, not an organization.
There was an organization mentioned in the TV story, but that is not a government or official organization, just a private organization.

I do think (and this is just a guess, I have no facts) that when Fastpass Plus and the RFID cards are fully rolled out, there will be some changes to GACs, including linking the GAC to that specific person's park pass/annual pass.
I have not read the fine print in the rules that came along with my annual pass, but I believe there is a part in there that forbids using the annual pass for money making ventures.

At some point, my guess is that GACs will be integrated with the RFID readers so when a guest using a GAC comes to the attraction, the appropriate accommodations for that guest will show up for the CM.

 

[SueM in MN]

bolding is mine....
Not true in WDW... I have gotten a GAC for 10 day trips, 12 day trips, etc.. multiple times during times I have not had an AP. But I think longer trips are more common in WDW than DL.

I have had an AP more than once now. And I have gotten Many gac's with my various AP and not once, ever, have they written my AP # on my gac. Just in the last year have they actually asked to see the pass itself. And my AP does not have my picture on it. It is a paper ticket...just my name...that's all. I think WDW must do things considerably different than DL.

I believe she was talking about Disneyland only. I think shorter trips are more common at DL than they are at WDW, so a week at DL is probably a very long trip.
We usually take 10-15 day WDW trips. When we get DD's GAC, we are asked how long the trip is and the last day of the trip is the expiration.

We do have annual passes at WDW. The DL ones have a photo, the WDW ones did many years ago, but have not had photos for many years. They stopped using pictures on WDW annual passes when they installed the old finger scanners (the ones where you had to put 2 fingers into the scanner and have both fingers scanned).
I don't know if they were not using those scanners at DL or if they have more issues with passes. But, I do know the WDW ones do not have photos and the DL ones do.
Also, the annual pass may not have a name on it, but the number on the pass accesses that guest's file, which has name, address, how the guest paid for the pass, etc.
the GAC has the person's name written on it and if there was an issue, looking at the GAC and the using a scanner yo read the annual pass would let the CMs see whether the person using the GAC was actually the one it was issued to.

 

[scroot]

DLR and WDW are more different than alike. We didn't get our first GAC at DLR untill DCA was opened. Prior to that our wheelchair was fine. Even now sometimes that is all we need.

If have seen all sorts of things. My favorite was the a couple of kids fighting over who's turn it was to ride in the wheelchair.

It would be nicer for all if they figured out a truly fair and accessible system.

I am not surprised at all by the responses of the "guides." I bet they are going to be surprised after they find out they have been "made."

Bad week at Disney--dry ice bomb. Gun on Dinosaur. Now this story from a more solid source. Now wonder the stock has dropped $3 in the last two days.

 

[SueM in MN]

CMs at attractions have to deal with a lot of crap from guests -

- at Jungle Cruise, we were waiting in a line including at least 5 wheelchairs and a guest with a GAC who was unsteady and needed to board with less people and the boat tied up rather than the 'usual' boarding area.
A man walked up, squeezed past us all and presented his GAC to the CM, saying "I have this card and you are required to give me immediate access." The CM explained (and showed the guy) that the GAC did not say that. The man didn't care and got really in the face of the CM, saying "I am disabled and I NEED immediate access" . He also said a lot of other things I can't write.
The CM pointed to the rest of us and explained we were also disabled and were waiting, do since he came after us, he would need to wait until after all the people who arrived before him had ridden, unless he could talk us into letting him go first. The guy was still belligerent, so one of those waiting said, "I think we should let him go ahead because he's a jerk and I don't want to listen to him the whole time we are waiting." The rest of us agreed we did not want to listen to him, the CM said to the guy, "the only reason I am letting you go ahead of the people who are waiting is that they don't want to listen to you." The guy got on the boat - and after the boat left, the CM called Security to greet the man when the ride was over.

- in the last few years, they renovated to line at Magic Carpets of Aladdin to be fully wheelchair accessible. The first trip after that, we took DD to the exit in her wheelchair and showed her GAC because thst was previously the only way that was accessible.
The CM said that the regular line was accessible and that since the posted wait was less than 20 minutes, there were no accommodations being given for anyone other than children on Wish Trips (if it had been more than 20 minutes with the GAC DD has, they would have given us a return time equal to the line).
We went around and were going to get into the line, but a family with a GAC (no wheelchair) was blocking the entrance and arguing loudly with the CM, saying their child could not wait 15 minutes, he needed to get on right away.
By the time we boarded, 15 minutes later, they were still arguing with the CM.

We've also seen people who know where the exit to an attraction is and just go there for every attraction. On our last trip, I saw someone trying to sneAk into Tinkerbell's Nook that way (unsuccessfully) and some people who successfully snuck into Haunted Mansion thru the exit.

These are just a couple of examples, but there are many more.

So, I do think there are CMs who are tired of the abuse from guests and just give in instead of standing firm.

 

[KPeveler]

CMs at attractions have to deal with a lot of crap from guests -

- at Jungle Cruise, we were waiting in a line including at least 5 wheelchairs and a guest with a GAC who was unsteady and needed to board with less people and the boat tied up rather than the 'usual' boarding area.
A man walked up, squeezed past us all and presented his GAC to the CM, saying "I have this card and you are required to give me immediate access." The CM explained (and showed the guy) that the GAC did not say that. The man didn't care and got really in the face of the CM, saying "I am disabled and I NEED immediate access" . He also said a lot of other things I can't write.
The CM pointed to the rest of us and explained we were also disabled and were waiting, do since he came after us, he would need to wait until after all the people who arrived before him had ridden, unless he could talk us into letting him go first. The guy was still belligerent, so one of those waiting said, "I think we should let him go ahead because he's a jerk and I don't want to listen to him the whole time we are waiting." The rest of us agreed we did not want to listen to him, the CM said to the guy, "the only reason I am letting you go ahead of the people who are waiting is that they don't want to listen to you." The guy got on the boat - and after the boat left, the CM called Security to greet the man when the ride was over.

Something like this happens routinely in DL. I see it all the time. People argue that their GAC trumps the line of people waiting, all of whom have disabilities. Guests either get in the line eventually or stalk off. This happens most often at Space, BTMRR, and Splash. All these lines have fastpass entrances, so a GAC, no matter the stamp, and i have seen them all by now, does not mean automatic FP access.

And if you piss off the CM, you may find yourself getting to visit with some very nice security folk.

 

[cmwade77]

Isn't anyone wondering why the policy at DLR and WDW seem so different that this allowed those people to go to the front of the line? I was under the impression that the GAC didn't do that... I wonder if it's going to come out that some employees were padding their pockets a little bit to let these groups skip lines?

It's not that different, if you aren't familiar with the crowd flow at Disneyland, you WILL wait longer on virtually every attraction than the Stand By line. And the crowd flow for GACs in much different than without them.

If you know the crowd flow, you can be waiting less than what the current standby times are.

That being said, most times of the year, you can plan your trip with fast passes and such to wait the same (if not less) amount of time for each attraction with proper planning. The problem is many attractions have stairs and other issues in their queues at Disneyland, so a GAC is much more necessary for some.

What bugs me about this is I reported people selling time with their GAC like this about a year ago directly to someone in charge of accessibility and it has taken a segment on the Today show for Disney to do anything about it.

There are several ways to identify this practice, such as the CM asking others what the name of the person with the GAC is, listening to conversations, etc.

But all in all the easiest way to combat this is with a policy change. Simply setup scanners to scan the GAC when a person first gets into line and say you can't use the GAC again until the length of time of the standby line has lapsed. It would be scanned when you first get in line, so that the length of time you are waiting is accounted for. I would also say it should be scanned again as you board, so if you waited longer than the standby line, you can get credit towards a wait later in the day and to make sure ride time is not counted as wait time.

This simple change would be very effective at eliminating a lot of abuse.

One other change would be to put pictures on all GACs, so that people can't hand them off to other people.

A simple change that would eliminate the other abuse that I have seen a lot of. People will hand their GACs to their friends when they can't or don't want to ride themselves.

 

[cmwade77]

I posted this question on the theme park board but it disappeared. It is probably better answered here anyway. I have seen it often stated that Disney is not allowed by law to ask for proof of disability. With that law being in place, why do I have to have a signed form from my doctor to get a handicap parking pass? My surgeon has given me one because of my knee replacement so I am familiar with that process. And honestly the handicap parking permit is much more critical to my life than a FOL pass at WDW.

I am asking this respectfully. I just don't understand why it is legal to require proof in one instance but not the other.

The difference is the disabled placards provide something of monetary value and that goes above and beyond simply being equal access. For example, in most (maybe all?) states, those with handicap placards can park in metered spaces for free, park in time limited zones with no time limits, park in streets that normally require permits without a permit in addition to disabled spaces, which are closer, wider, etc.

The GACs simply allow equal access, for example if an attraction has stairs and you cannot do stairs, a GAC allows you to go around the stairs. Without a GAC, you would be unable to do that attraction. There are many other situations, but that is the easiest example I can think of.