Train could pass though Disney World

[BlackMagicWoman]

So while a train from Orlando to Tampa sounds good in theory - If there is such a need for that why aren't buses (that currently do the SAME thing for really cheap - comfortable seats, usb charging ports) more popular? A train is just several buses attached together on a rail.

A quick search and I can get a bus from Tampa to Orlando (downtown to downtown) (several times a day) for about $15-19 for a 2 hour trip. There probably are bus companies that go from airport to airport. So why is a TRAIN needed? Why aren't the people who say they would take a train not using the bus?

I guess I just don't see where the demand is for trains in this country. Sure . let's find a solution to get to various points of interest quickly and cheaper than flying. But why a train that needs semi-permanent and static rails embedded into the ground??

A train isn't several busses on a rail. As a daily Rider of public transportation, I prefer the train to busses. They have fewer stops and can usually take more direct routes. Plus they don't get stuck in traffic. If I'm travelling around NYC particularly during rush hour or on a really nice weekend day, it's faster to take a train.

 

[RRB]

That first map has nothing to do with this project. That map was related to government-run high-speed rail line. Then Governor Rick Scott killed that project way back in 2011. The Brightline/Virgin proposal will definitely not go to the Orange County Convention Center. Additionally, I don't believe there will be any stops between Orlando and Tampa (if that gets built).

As for the second map, the east/west part of the green line will never happen because it would require purchasing the right-of-way through what I assume is privately owned land. It would also likely require zoning changes.

The blue line runs along Osceola Parkway. While it's possible to run a train line along the road, Brightline/Virgin would need to get approval. According to Wikipedia, Osceola County maintains that road.

The red line is the Central Florida Greeneway (State Road 417). That road is owned by the Central Florida Expressway Authority (CFX). Sticking to one route controlled by one entity makes things much easier for Brightline/Virgin. According to press reports, they've already started negotiations with CFX.

Based on that fact as well as the permitting issues that Mr. Drauer noted in earlier posts, I think the red line route is the only logical choice. As much as some of us would love a train station at an existing site at Disney World, I think that's just a pipe dream.

I assumed since the maps were in a recent post, they were current.

 

[Mikey15]

I assumed since the maps were in a recent post, they were current.

I don't think the first one can be current. Clue is the "Florida Rail Enterprise" logo from when the project was a govt one. The Beachline (528) route and Convention Center stop doesn't seem to be happening, but the southerly route to Meadow Woods and along 417 (seen in the second map) is.

I still think it'll be interesting to see how the dilemma of the second map is resolved. Looks like FDOT released some decision info late Nov last year:
https://www.fdot.gov/procurement/passengerrail.shtm
but all the links seem to be to older info.

I've opened up an 1,100 page PDF on the site plans for the I-4 stretch involved. Wish me luck, I think I'll flip through while eating my lunch

[Edit]Guess that was a fun dead-end. FDOT has requested proposals for leasing of right of way for the rail corridor, and those should be all in now, but I can't find any release of results. The I-4 plans for Osceola County confirm a 44ft rail corridor in the median, but not much detail.

There was another 2014 HSR plan that showed the "Disney" station in a wider segment of the I-4 median over a spot where there's two drainage ponds now. Just seems too small, but I guess it's the only spot where there was wide enough room to put anything. Mind you, this was a 5 year old plan from when SR528->I-4 was the plan, not 417->I-4.[/Edit]

 

[writerguyfl]

I assumed since the maps were in a recent post, they were current.

No worries. Unless you've actively followed the multi-year saga surrounding the Orlando/Tampa high speed rail project, it wouldn't be easy to spot the fact that map isn't applicable to the current project.

[Edit]Guess that was a fun dead-end. FDOT has requested proposals for leasing of right of way for the rail corridor, and those should be all in now, but I can't find any release of results. The I-4 plans for Osceola County confirm a 44ft rail corridor in the median, but not much detail.

There was another 2014 HSR plan that showed the "Disney" station in a wider segment of the I-4 median over a spot where there's two drainage ponds now. Just seems too small, but I guess it's the only spot where there was wide enough room to put anything. Mind you, this was a 5 year old plan from when SR528->I-4 was the plan, not 417->I-4.[/Edit]

Those government reports can be daunting! I worked with those in my grad school program. They can be hard to find. And when you do, you typically have to decipher a bunch of obscure abbreviations before you can figure out what you're reading.

 

[Mikey15]

No worries. Unless you've actively followed the multi-year saga surrounding the Orlando/Tampa high speed rail project, it wouldn't be easy to spot the fact that map isn't applicable to the current project.

Those government reports can be daunting! I worked with those in my grad school program. They can be hard to find. And when you do, you typically have to decipher a bunch of obscure abbreviations before you can figure out what you're reading.

Some govts definitely do it better than others. In this case there's a hodgepodge of outdated info still available, but all the links are dead to the 36-page proposal Brightline submitted ahead of FDOT giving them permission to negotiate the ROW lease with them (Turnpike) and CFX. Yet that page about the RFP process is still up, including that they'd announce results Nov 28 (which they did, all the articles about Brightline getting the prelim go-ahead from FDOT are Nov 29), but no link to the results & winning proposal!

The one good detail I got out of the huge I-4 Osceola plans is that there's going to be on and off ramps at 417 and I-4 for both the Express Lanes and the General Use Lanes. The layout seems like it would be pretty tricky to fit another overpass for the rail lines such that they can move from the median of I-4 directly to the median of 417 (there's already overpasses for 417->I-4 Express West and I-4 Express East->417). Makes me think they'll cross the track to the NW side of I-4 before that point, build a station, and then meet back up with the I-4 median rail ROW closer to the World Drive / I-4 interchange, but I can't be sure.

 

[RRB]

Is there a current route map available?

 

[Mr. Drauer]

I have the Brightline proposal - nothing new has been submitted since this (the one Mikey15 is referring to). There is no current route map, as they proposed the various concepts to have FDOT comment on. This is internal only at this point so there will not be anything to view until FDOT and/or Brightline puts it out there. There was an old proposed station concept in the median but that was changed to the World Drive location due to the logistics of building pedestrian access across I-4. There is not any more detail on the I-4 rail corridor other than it being 44' wide - it was put in as a placeholder (I know since I wrote the Environmental Documents on I-4 for the BtU NEPA approval). There is currently a design firm doing the I-4 BtU design for the sections in this area, so those will potentially have more details, or it might still just show the 44' envelope.

 

[lucas]

I haven't read this whole thread. But, I wanted to say that Brightline is alive and well in South Florida. We see those trains going by all the time. Can't wait for it to go all the way to Orlando!

 

[rteetz]

https://blogmickey.com/2020/11/brightline-train-station-coming-to-disney-springs/

 

[Spridell]

https://blogmickey.com/2020/11/brightline-train-station-coming-to-disney-springs/

This is a good move.

Will definitely get a lot of people from here in South Florida up to Disney.

I know myself, I would def use it from Palm Beach to Disney.

I have taken it from Palm Beach to Miami, and the experience was AMAZING!!!! First class all the way, clean, friendly, one of the best trains I have ever been on.

 

[rteetz]

This is a good move.

Will definitely get a lot of people from here in South Florida up to Disney.

I know myself, I would def use it from Palm Beach to Disney.

It is interesting they went with a station at Disney Springs. Many thought it would be connected to property or close by but not directly at a Disney facility.

 

[andyman8]

https://blogmickey.com/2020/11/brightline-train-station-coming-to-disney-springs/

Just to caution: this is still quite a ways away. Brightline services are currently suspended and have been for months, and while construction continues on the Phase II construction (WPB to MCO), that continues to see delays and it’s going to take the company some time to recover (like many other travel businesses of course). So I think this won’t come to fruition for quite some time.

 

[Spridell]

It is interesting they went with a station at Disney Springs. Many thought it would be connected to property or close by but not directly at a Disney facility.

Wasn't the rumor somewhere around Celebration they were going to put a station?

I guess if they were going to do a station on property Springs would be a good location. Kind of like a hub with all the shops and restaurants there. I am guessing they will have to add some more busses to accommodate more people going to the parks and hotels from the train station.

Any guess where in Springs they would put the station? Any empty land around there?

 

[rteetz]

Just to caution: this is still quite a ways away. Brightline services are currently suspended and have been for months, and while construction continues on the Phase II construction (WPB to MCO), that continues to see delays and it’s going to take the company some time to recover (like many other travel businesses of course). So I think this won’t come to fruition for quite some time.

Press release says 2-3 years.

 

[rteetz]

Wasn't the rumor somewhere around Celebration they were going to put a station?

I guess if they were going to do a station on property Springs would be a good location. Kind of like a hub with all the shops and restaurants there. I am guessing they will have to add some more busses to accommodate more people going to the parks and hotels from the train station.

Any guess where in Springs they would put the station? Any empty land around there?

There is some land across the street next to Team Disney and Typhoon Lagoon. If they had it directly connected to Disney Springs they would likely have to use the remain surface lots.

 

[Spridell]

Just to caution: this is still quite a ways away. Brightline services are currently suspended and have been for months, and while construction continues on the Phase II construction (WPB to MCO), that continues to see delays and it’s going to take the company some time to recover (like many other travel businesses of course). So I think this won’t come to fruition for quite some time.

Yeah this probably wont be until at least 2022 sometime if not late 2022-23.

The tracks that will go from WPB to MCO are near my house here in Palm Beach. I have been watching them over the months upgrade the tracks and they are moving very very slowly.

Progress has been made over the past several months but very slow moving.

 

[Spridell]

There is some land across the street next to Team Disney and Typhoon Lagoon. If they had it directly connected to Disney Springs they would likely have to use the remain surface lots.

This spot?

 

[andyman8]

Wasn't the rumor somewhere around Celebration they were going to put a station?

I guess if they were going to do a station on property Springs would be a good location. Kind of like a hub with all the shops and restaurants there. I am guessing they will have to add some more busses to accommodate more people going to the parks and hotels from the train station.

Any guess where in Springs they would put the station? Any empty land around there?

My personal guess is the parking lots in between the Speedway and DS Cast Services. There’d be room for the tracks to straddle I-4 and that would position them to be able to move forward with an expansion to Tampa, which they’ve indicated interest in.

Press release says 2-3 years.

Yeah this probably wont be until at least 2022 sometime if not late 2022-23.

The tracks that will go from WPB to MCO are near my house here in Palm Beach. I have been watching them over the months upgrade the tracks and they are moving very very slowly.

Progress has been made over the past several months but very slow moving.

Yeah, two to three years sounds very ambitious, and given that Brighltline has repeatedly pushed its launch dates, (at one point both the MIA to WPB and WPB to MCO corridors were announced as opening in 2017), I foresee similar delays with this expansion. As of right now, the WPB to MCO corridor isn’t slated to open until 2022 (as of now, that could get delayed again), so I don’t see the DS station coming online until at least 2023 or 2024.

 

[rteetz]

This spot?

Yeah thats what I was thinking. I am not sure how much space they need. Otherwise they would have to use the surface lots at DS or go across Epcot Center Drive or I4.

 

[doconeill]

Yeah thats what I was thinking. I am not sure how much space they need. Otherwise they would have to use the surface lots at DS or go across Epcot Center Drive or I4.

Given that is is meant to be a through station, I would think they wouldn't put it there because it would have to be a stub station which would require reversing the train, which would require a brake test, etc. But I'm not even sure how they are getting the tracks there anyways...