VP Pence to host call with cruise line industry.

[mousefan73]

I live in a COVID hot spot (we are currently under partial lockdown) Would you feel confortable being seated right next to me for 3,5 hours even though we are wearing masks? Would you feel comfortable eating in the same dining room/at the table next to mine (since we all remove our masks to eat)?

Are risks reduced with all the safety measures? Maybe a little bit, yes. But not entirely. Judging by the amount of new cases and hospitalisations and deaths, it seems to me that it still isn’t safe enough. It’s still quite a gamble, actually.

I’m no gambler. Won’t risk affecting the life of someone else just because I miss cruising (and I do as much as everyone else). If that means having to wait another year to travel —and we usually travel 2 to 4 times a year so this is quite a change for us—, so be it.

Yes Because even if you take the worse hot spot figures the chance YOU have Covid is less than 1%.

 

[mevelandry]

You know it isn’t a death sentence if you get the virus right? It has over a 99% survivability rate for most people. In fact, my 70+ year old parents both had the virus this summer. Not from travel, from work. You can get it anywhere. They were both sick for a couple days. Didn’t need to see the dr. Didn’t need to be hospitalized. Didn’t die. Just got sick. Yes, they felt horrible. They are both fine now. No residual affects. We just aren’t terrified of it anymore and choose to live. Not to hide. We will be on a Disney cruise ship when they start to sail. We will not see my husband’s 80+ year old parents when we get back. You can safely travel!

I know three persons who got the virus. 1 died. 1 still has shortness of breath six months later. The other one still experiences loss of taste/smell six weeks later. Both who are still alive said this was worst for them than influenza.

I’m not « terrified »... But I’m aware that this virus can have long term consequences so I take it seriously. Especially right now since I live in a « Red Zone » (that’s how they call it, they created a color code).

P.s.: I’m really happy your your parents are fine.

 

[mevelandry]

Yes Because even if you take the worse hot spot figures the chance YOU have Covid is less than 1%.

Unless there is a vaccine, we’ll only travel again when my province (I live in Canada) and Florida/the USA return in the « green zone » (2 or lower per 100 000), rapid testing is available —in a few weeks from now— and the 14 day quarantine after travel is not mandatory.

 

[insureman]

Here's the readout from the VPs call from the White house website.

Vice President Mike Pence today led a call with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Robert Redfield; Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar; former Utah Governor and HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt of the Healthy Sail Panel; and executives of the cruise line industry to discuss the impacts of the Coronavirus on the cruise line industry and the maritime economy, the CDC’s No Sail Order, and the Cruise Lines International Association and Healthy Sail Panel’s proposal to resume sailing operations in a safe and responsible manner. The recommendations from the Healthy Sail Panel recently received industry-wide adoption.

Vice President Pence gave a brief overview of the current state of the No Sail Order and highlighted the shared goal of reopening the maritime economy, with a focus on the cruise line industry safely sailing again. Pence thanked Governor Leavitt, Co-Chair of the Healthy Sail Panel, and the cruise line executives for conducting an industry-driven effort that focuses on the health outcomes.

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

Governor Leavitt provided an overview of how the Healthy Sail Panel approached their report and recommendations, and emphasized that the industry was driven by producing real solutions without economic restraints, which did not result in market participants competing on safety. Leavitt indicated that the output needed to be practical and prioritized safety.

Together, the industry executives thanked the Trump Administration for its collaborative approach and support, and stressed that this process and proposal introduces accountability and standards that will ensure cruise ship passengers are in a safe and healthy environment.

The proposal will be presented to the Task Force in order to provide a recommendation to President Donald J. Trump with regard to next steps on the CDC’s No Sail Order.

Participants:
-Governor Mike Leavitt (Co-Chair, Healthy Sail Panel)
-Arnold Donald (CEO, Carnival Corporation)
-Frank Del Rio (President & CEO, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings)
-Richard Fain (Chairman & CEO, Royal Caribbean Group)
-Thomas Malzoum (President, Disney Signature Experience)
-Pierfrancesco Vago (Executive Chairman, MSC Cruises)

 

[Starwind]

As far as international travelers I would not know how or where to start. Now you you are dealing with not only the CDC but also Customs and Boarder protection.

More than just CDC and CBP... Executive Orders from the President, US Embassies/Consulates abroad, the list goes on.

The US is basically Closed to non-essential travel [which includes tourism] from a long list of countries right now. The list for whom it is open is short.

And many US Embassies and Consulates abroad have only relatively recently resumed limited visa services, with many of those still not having resumed issuing non-immigrant (including tourist) visas except on an emergency basis - even American Citizen Services have been and in some cases still are limited.

So realistically, absent changing the rules, if they were to consider international travelers it would probably have to be those already present in (and able to return to at the end of the cruise since they would be re-entering) the US, or those from abroad who are from a visa waiver country [or equivalent, like Canada] that is ALSO not banned from the US for non-essential travel. The current list is pretty small. Canadians, for example, cannot enter the US by land for non-essential travel, though we are allowed to fly into the US [the US has not publicly explained their rationale for the difference]. However, Canadians traveling to the US do so against a Government of Canada travel advisory and face a 14 day federally-enforced quarantine on return.

Limiting the initial cruisers to some formal definition of US residents may be easier to navigate.

 

[Starwind]

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

bold added.

I wonder if this is referring in part to dealing with an outbreak, especially a large one, and the need for quarantine operations, particularly on land.

One of the major reasons for the No Sail Order being issued was that the federal quarantines were unsustainable. Among other issues, there simply were not enough resources to sustain it.

Having the federal government do the quarantine is not a feasible option, so the cruise lines are going to have to come up with an acceptable scalable alternative that could handle any size of outbreak, presumably upto and including the whole ship needing to be dealt with, and multiple ships at once [because, Murphy's Law and all] though perhaps they'd be allowed from multiple lines not just a single if it is an industry collaborative plan [which at that end of the scale it may have to be].

[and along with the plan.... at what point in # of infected/probably infected do they shift from managing individuals to managing the ship as a whole ? obviously there will be different thresholds that will trigger different actions, like there are eg with a noro outbreak... it will be interesting to learn what those thresholds will be with covid in the context of a ship...]

ETA: and the cruise lines will have to pay for it ["backstop" it]...

 

[Intr3pid]

Flying is fairly safe right now. I would have no problem getting on an airplane right now. There are some airlines I would not fly, but I would get on a plane right now. If I could, I would go to WDW rn

I have already spent 2.5 weeks at Disney. A week in August and 1.5 weeks in September. Eating in restaurants, going to the parks, being around thousands of people from COVID hotspots. And amazingly, I didn’t kill any friends or family since I got back. It can be done. You can vacation safely and not kill others upon your return.

It's a tricky sense of safety. You spend mere hours in a flight or in a park. It's very transactional. You may or may not contract the virus if someone else has it. And it's virtually impossible to prove that's where the virus came from if you do.

Not so much when you are stuck on a boat with thousands of others with nowhere to go.

The safety bar HAS to be higher.

 

[happiestgrl]

Before I do my flying is safe spiel...I work in the industry. 1 out of every 14 jobs in the US is at least partially dependent on commercial aviation. We are hurting as is the whole tourism Industry. I really want to cruise again AND keep my job.

I would just like to add that according to IATA -
“New research from Airbus, The Boeing Company & Embraer demonstrates that combining the aircraft’s existing design features with mask-wearing creates a low-risk environment for #COVID19 transmission.

In a period where 1.2 billion passengers traveled, less than 50 cases were reported where transmission is thought to have been associated with flying”
That’s a 1 in 27 million chance.

See more bit.ly/3iH13kR

#FlySafe #ReadyToFly

 

[mevelandry]

Before I do my flying is safe spiel...I work in the industry. 1 out of every 14 jobs in the US is at least partially dependent on commercial aviation. We are hurting as is the whole tourism Industry. I really want to cruise again AND keep my job.

I would just like to add that according to IATA -
“New research from Airbus, The Boeing Company & Embraer demonstrates that combining the aircraft’s existing design features with mask-wearing creates a low-risk environment for #COVID19 transmission.

In a period where 1.2 billion passengers traveled, less than 50 cases were reported where transmission is thought to have been associated with flying”
That’s a 1 in 27 million chance.
View attachment 531905
See more bit.ly/3iH13kR

#FlySafe #ReadyToFly

Do you think we will see, in the future, N95 masks being « given » (included in the rate) to passengers before they board the plane?

I have a feeling that flying with masks on is here to stay.

 

[happiestgrl]

Do you think we will see, in the future, N95 masks being « given » (included in the rate) to passengers before they board the plane?

I have a feeling that flying with masks on is here to stay.

We provide masks (Not N95) and hand sanitizers. Doesn’t mean we won’t ever...things are always changing. That is actually my job- to order PPE - along with all other Disposable and Reusable equipment for the caterers.

 

[DisneYE]

Before I do my flying is safe spiel...I work in the industry. 1 out of every 14 jobs in the US is at least partially dependent on commercial aviation. We are hurting as is the whole tourism Industry. I really want to cruise again AND keep my job.

I would just like to add that according to IATA -
“New research from Airbus, The Boeing Company & Embraer demonstrates that combining the aircraft’s existing design features with mask-wearing creates a low-risk environment for #COVID19 transmission.

In a period where 1.2 billion passengers traveled, less than 50 cases were reported where transmission is thought to have been associated with flying”
That’s a 1 in 27 million chance.

See more bit.ly/3iH13kR

#FlySafe #ReadyToFly

First of all: Thank you for what you do. I appreciate you and your colleagues for keeping us safe.
Those who travel in one way or another are not appreciative enough of what you do. So thank you.

I would dispute the figure of 1.2 Billion travelers who've traveled so far thru airports.
That number = aprox 6.7 million people a day. There is no way that figure is accurate.
In Canada's largest airport (Pearson in YYZ) there used to be ~ 125,000 passengers a day pre-covid.
Now? aprox 1,500 a day. 94% less than in 2019.
I think that 1.2b figure is deceptive at least, if not outright false.
It's normal for IATA to push that figure because they obviously want to portray the industry as safe.
Most of us know the industry is safe. No need to push for agenda-driven figures.

 

[happiestgrl]

First of all: Thank you for what you do. I appreciate you and your colleagues for keeping us safe.
Those who travel in one way or another are not appreciative enough of what you do. So thank you.

I would dispute the figure of 1.2 Billion travelers who've traveled so far thru airports.
That number = aprox 6.7 million people a day. There is no way that figure is accurate.
In Canada's largest airport (Pearson in YYZ) there used to be ~ 125,000 passengers a day pre-covid.
Now? aprox 1,500 a day. 94% less than in 2019.
I think that 1.2b figure is deceptive at least, if not outright false.
It's normal for IATA to push that figure because they obviously want to portray the industry as safe.
Most of us know the industry is safe. No need to push for agenda-driven figures.

Thank you! And I agree - they aren’t clear about the timeline that 1.2 flew. Even now, TSA is reporting 700,000-900,000ish daily domestic. I did notice the IATA data went back to January 1- so 3 months of “normal”.

 

[insureman]

Thank you! And I agree - they aren’t clear about the timeline that 1.2 flew. Even now, TSA is reporting 700,000-900,000ish daily domestic. I did notice the IATA data went back to January 1- so 3 months of “normal”.

That's international but I would focus on the 44 cases that were attributed to flights worldwide. Here are the financial losses that IATA has on their website. Actually better than I expected.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Do you think we will see, in the future, N95 masks being « given »

N95 masks are not the best for virus protection. The ones with the front filter allow droplets to escape from the wearer. They are primarily worn by construction workers to filter out the particulates during construction, but not to stop any contaminates from being put out by the wearer.

 

[deliela999]

N95 masks are not the best for virus protection. The ones with the front filter allow droplets to escape from the wearer. They are primarily worn by construction workers to filter out the particulates during construction, but not to stop any contaminates from being put out by the wearer.

There are N95's without the exhale valve and that's what they are using in hospitals and practically impossible for anyone else to buy. We use them with the valve at work as needed normally, not right now.

 

[DCLMP]

N95 masks are not the best for virus protection. The ones with the front filter allow droplets to escape from the wearer. They are primarily worn by construction workers to filter out the particulates during construction, but not to stop any contaminates from being put out by the wearer.

N95's are used by healthcare providers and have been for years.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

N95's are used by healthcare providers and have been for years.

There are different types of N95 masks. The ones used by healthcare providers are different than the typical one that anyone can purchase at, say, Home Depot.

 

[mevelandry]

N95 masks are not the best for virus protection. The ones with the front filter allow droplets to escape from the wearer. They are primarily worn by construction workers to filter out the particulates during construction, but not to stop any contaminates from being put out by the wearer.

I’m talking about the medical ones. In hospitals here, they use N95 with no front filter. They have them « fitted«.

 

[Karin1984]

I’m talking about the medical ones. In hospitals here, they use N95 with no front filter. They have them « fitted«.

No, if/when airlines hand out masks, it will be the regular ones you can buy anywhere. Medical masks are needed in the medical field.

I flew 2 months ago. I knew I had to wear a mask, I only hadn't read the instructions properly. The airline didn't allow homemade masks. They handed out the regular masks at boarding for those who didn't have the right one.

 

[mevelandry]

No, if/when airlines hand out masks, it will be the regular ones you can buy anywhere. Medical masks are needed in the medical field.

I flew 2 months ago. I knew I had to wear a mask, I only hadn't read the instructions properly. The airline didn't allow homemade masks. They handed out the regular masks at boarding for those who didn't have the right one.

I was asking because I know companies have started producing massive amounts of PPE.

But I guess the regular procedure could probably do a good job for a flight where passengers have been tested? Better than no mask at all.

I didn't know they did not allow homemade masks. Good to know. Thanks for the info.