Wanting Riviera but not its resale restrictions

[Bearval]

Coda: Just purchased 150 points direct at Riviera!

Can you imagine how much Vero Beach or Hilton Head would go for in the resale market if it had the same restrictions as RIV? Probably like most other time shares and that would be pennies on the dollar and if they could even sell them at all.

 

[rubybutt]

I am looking to buy into DVC. Preferably I would like BLT, but the stock of reasonably priced contracts is currently gone. If you buy in to Rivera direct before the end of the month and you choose Dec as your UY you will still get the 2020 points. Also your 2021 points will be prorated. So for a 300 point contract it is currently priced at $180 pp. If you add in the prorated fees you will pay about $183.5 pp. But you will start with 600 points. Assuming $15 value pp (if you resale those points immediately) you will be down to a direct RIV contract at a pp of $153.5 with 48 years of points left. So $3.2 pp/yr left on contract. Will someone check my math and make sure I am thinking correctly?

 

[princesscinderella]

I am looking to buy into DVC. Preferably I would like BLT, but the stock of reasonably priced contracts is currently gone. If you buy in to Rivera direct before the end of the month and you choose Dec as your UY you will still get the 2020 points. Also your 2021 points will be prorated. So for a 300 point contract it is currently priced at $180 pp. If you add in the prorated fees you will pay about $183.5 pp. But you will start with 600 points. Assuming $15 value pp (if you resale those points immediately) you will be down to a direct RIV contract at a pp of $153.5 with 48 years of points left. So $3.2 pp/yr left on contract. Will someone check my math and make sure I am thinking correctly?

I think your math works out . My only suggestion is to maybe buy the 300 points in a few contracts. One has to be 150 points if you are a new DVC member, but then you could buy two 75 points ones too. That way if you ever want to downsize it’s much easier to do so without losing your blue card. It’s about $250 in fees per extra contract but totally worth it it IMHO.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I am looking to buy into DVC. Preferably I would like BLT, but the stock of reasonably priced contracts is currently gone. If you buy in to Rivera direct before the end of the month and you choose Dec as your UY you will still get the 2020 points. Also your 2021 points will be prorated. So for a 300 point contract it is currently priced at $180 pp. If you add in the prorated fees you will pay about $183.5 pp. But you will start with 600 points. Assuming $15 value pp (if you resale those points immediately) you will be down to a direct RIV contract at a pp of $153.5 with 48 years of points left. So $3.2 pp/yr left on contract. Will someone check my math and make sure I am thinking correctly?

I would also add that you really need to consider the difference in dues. A 300pt BLT contract ($6.90pp) will cost you $2,070 per year in dues where as a 300pt Riviera contract ($8.38) will cost $2,514. That's almost a $500 dollar difference per year and it will only go up. In the end, you'll end up paying far more in annual dues than your upfront costs. And I agree with everything the previous commenter said about getting smaller size contracts.

 

[rubybutt]

I would be all over a BLT at $135 pp (this is where the regression lines were last winter) but current supply is sold out. Obviously no one is buying BLT above 160 and I would say anyone over 140 got caught up in the hysteria. The big question is when will this spike return back to normal? Getting a direct RIV for the same price as a resale BLT seems like a no brainer. I understand the maintenance costs and think the blue card will make up that difference (I don't have one). The bigger issue in my mind with RIV is the point chart. It is fairly more expensive. decisions, decisions. BWV and BCV are awesome locations and my preferred spot, but the 21 year expiration makes the price per year to much. When will the market start pricing this in?

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I would be all over a BLT at $135 pp (this is where the regression lines were last winter) but current supply is sold out. Obviously no one is buying BLT above 160 and I would say anyone over 140 got caught up in the hysteria. The big question is when will this spike return back to normal? Getting a direct RIV for the same price as a resale BLT seems like a no brainer. I understand the maintenance costs and think the blue card will make up that difference (I don't have one). The bigger issue in my mind with RIV is the point chart. It is fairly more expensive. decisions, decisions. BWV and BCV are awesome locations and my preferred spot, but the 21 year expiration makes the price per year to much. When will the market start pricing this in?

i think the days of BLT in the $140s are long gone and probably will never come back. And I wholeheartedly agree with you wrt Riviera’s ridiculously high points chart, which will likely be the norm for all future resorts going forward. When the 2042 contracts expire, the relatively low points chart at BLT will become even more appealing at that point until 2060, as well as its prime location next to MK and monorail to Epcot. Lots to consider. Good luck to you!

 

[Sandisw]

I am looking to buy into DVC. Preferably I would like BLT, but the stock of reasonably priced contracts is currently gone. If you buy in to Rivera direct before the end of the month and you choose Dec as your UY you will still get the 2020 points. Also your 2021 points will be prorated. So for a 300 point contract it is currently priced at $180 pp. If you add in the prorated fees you will pay about $183.5 pp. But you will start with 600 points. Assuming $15 value pp (if you resale those points immediately) you will be down to a direct RIV contract at a pp of $153.5 with 48 years of points left. So $3.2 pp/yr left on contract. Will someone check my math and make sure I am thinking correctly?

As already mentioned, the dues are more so that has to be considered.

However, if you can take advantage of the blue card and place value in staying at RIV and future resorts, it’s hard to beat the numbers against BLt resale right now for 300 points.

The same advice applies though about making sure your home resort is one you are happy with if you can’t trade.

I love RIV and own there. In process of selling BLT that was restricted to buy resale RIV.

Getting BLT LV has been doable using my SSR points. Getting RIV SV is much harder in a studio especially.

You also do get an extra 10 years to RIV which of course may be important.

While the AP is suspended right now…nothing to do with DVD making that decision…there is no indication it won’t be back at some level of discount over that of a regular guest. That savings alone can offset extra dues and possibly purchase price.

 

[Nutbean]

I think your math works out . My only suggestion is to maybe buy the 300 points in a few contracts. One has to be 150 points if you are a new DVC member, but then you could buy two 75 points ones too. That way if you ever want to downsize it’s much easier to do so without losing your blue card. It’s about $250 in fees per extra contract but totally worth it it IMHO.

If you buy the points this way, do you still qualify for the discounts/incentives at 300 points? If yes, this definitely makes a difference in how I'm going to proceed with buying direct.

 

[zobel0022]

If you buy the points this way, do you still qualify for the discounts/incentives at 300 points? If yes, this definitely makes a difference in how I'm going to proceed with buying direct.

Yes, they will give you incentives for the entire purchase of all the contracts. I purchased two and they gave me incentives for the total points.

 

[Sandisw]

If you buy the points this way, do you still qualify for the discounts/incentives at 300 points? If yes, this definitely makes a difference in how I'm going to proceed with buying direct.

Yes. Just know you do pay more in closing costs, but in the end, it is worth it. Much easier to sell a smaller contract than one large 300 point one. And, since you are buying in when the blue card minimum is 150, as long as one contract is that size, you can sell the others down the road if you had to and still remain a blue card owner!

 

[bk2019]

I am looking to buy into DVC. Preferably I would like BLT, but the stock of reasonably priced contracts is currently gone. If you buy in to Rivera direct before the end of the month and you choose Dec as your UY you will still get the 2020 points. Also your 2021 points will be prorated. So for a 300 point contract it is currently priced at $180 pp. If you add in the prorated fees you will pay about $183.5 pp. But you will start with 600 points. Assuming $15 value pp (if you resale those points immediately) you will be down to a direct RIV contract at a pp of $153.5 with 48 years of points left. So $3.2 pp/yr left on contract. Will someone check my math and make sure I am thinking correctly?

I’m using the same math to possibly buy 150 points at the Riviera. Right now I’m sitting at the Grand Cal pool and this might be the tipping point

 

[natty650]

I’m using the same math to possibly buy 150 points at the Riviera. Right now I’m sitting at the Grand Cal pool and this might be the tipping point

That Grand Californian pool is dangerous. Our last stay there is what convinced me to get into DVC. Well, it was the pool and the cabana.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Ugghhh! All this Riviera talk makes me want to buy there! Just a small contract!

 

[havoc315]

Said it before, will say it again:
The effect of the resale restrictions is greatly exaggerated.

1 -- Can only stay in 1 resort. How many DVC owners primarily stay in their home resort anyway? Do lots of GFV owners try to use their points at SSR? Lots of owners mostly already stay primarily at their home resort. I was just checking the inventory for 7 months from now -- There were only a handful of options for studios. No studios at BRV, BLT, RIV, GFV, BWV, BCV, or CCV. If you travel around holiday periods especially, trade options are very limited at 7 months. So owning at "just one resort" is not always much different than owning unrestricted points.
2-- Very soon, Riviera will probably be the only Epcot area resort with any long term value. BCV and BWV are both entering their final stretch. In 2030, there won't exactly be a big re-sale market for a contract with only 10 years left, while Riviera still has 40 years left. And with access to both DHS and Epcot, there will always be a demand for the Epcot area resorts. If you're buying now, you are planning on holding until at least 2030. So realistically, which of the 3 will have the best resale value: "Unrestricted" BWV and BCV with only 10 years left, or RIV with 40 years left. And if new DVC is added to the Epcot area, it will almost certainly have the same restrictions.
3--Any diminished resale value is already baked into the direct price. Yes, RIV resale may be less than GFV resale, but RIV direct is a lot less than GFV direct. For the reasons 1 and 2, RIV resale won't be worthless. For the right price, lots of people would accept the resale restrictions. So if the price is $30 less than a GFV resale, ok.... but it was a cheaper direct purchase too.
4-- Future resorts will have similar restrictions. And the old resorts will have the restriction of not being able to use numerous newer resorts. So in 15-20 years, the reality will likely be that the only way to get unrestricted is by buying direct. And all re-sale will have to deal with off-putting restrictions. A 15-20 year re-sale contract at SSR or AKV would have their value diminished if they couldn't be used at any of the Epcot resorts, for example.

To me, I can understand the resale restrictions pushing someone to buy direct as opposed to resale. But they wouldn't stop me from buying direct in 2021, because it might somehow affect the resale value in 2031-2041.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I would be all over a BLT at $135 pp (this is where the regression lines were last winter) but current supply is sold out. Obviously no one is buying BLT above 160 and I would say anyone over 140 got caught up in the hysteria. The big question is when will this spike return back to normal? Getting a direct RIV for the same price as a resale BLT seems like a no brainer. I understand the maintenance costs and think the blue card will make up that difference (I don't have one). The bigger issue in my mind with RIV is the point chart. It is fairly more expensive. decisions, decisions. BWV and BCV are awesome locations and my preferred spot, but the 21 year expiration makes the price per year to much. When will the market start pricing this in?

By the way, not sure if you or anyone has noticed. There are a WHOLE LOTTA BLT contracts selling right now on resale. Not sure what's causing this flood of listings but might be a great time to negotiate a great price. Is there something up with BLT that I'm missing? Never seen so many listings.

 

[princesscinderella]

By the way, not sure if you or anyone has noticed. There are a WHOLE LOTTA BLT contracts selling right now on resale. Not sure what's causing this flood of listings but might be a great time to negotiate a great price. Is there something up with BLT that I'm missing? Never seen so many listings.

There’s a ton more listings in general. When I started buying earlier in the year there were only about 50 contracts in my two UYs across all resorts, now there are 105 across the major resellers. Supply is is definitely starting to beef up as compared to demand and it makes sense as the prices have become crazy as compared to buying direct at some of the resorts. If it continues the prices may come down some, there’s a ton of overly stripped contracts too that don’t have points until 2023.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

There’s a ton more listings in general. When I started buying earlier in the year there were only about 50 contracts in my two UYs across all resorts, now there are 105 across the major resellers. Supply is is definitely starting to beef up as compared to demand and it makes sense as the prices have become crazy as compared to buying direct at some of the resorts. If it continues the prices may come down some, there’s a ton of overly stripped contracts too that don’t have points until 2023.

I did notice all the stripped contracts. We may see prices coming back down to earth here pretty soon for all resorts, except for VGC probably. Perhaps all the buying frenzy coming out of the pandemic is coming to an end.

 

[ProudMommyof2]

The stripped contracts have been sitting for a while. The board sponsor seems to encourage stripping before listing?

 

[KTownRaider]

As a DVC newbie, it's interesting to me that a lot of stripped contracts don't seemed to be significantly discounted compared to their fully loaded cousins.

 

[Tiberella626]

The stripped contracts have been sitting for a while. The board sponsor seems to encourage stripping before listing?

I saw a post on another thread about this. As a seller, stripping seems to provide a better value. Even if you rent the points out you would get more money than if you left it in the contract. That being said as a buyer it would definitely make the contract less appealing to me personally but that's because I want instant points !