We want Riviera, but can’t pull the trigger.

[Bing Showei]

Yesterday afternoon I got a phone call from DVC wanting to know if I wanted more information and a point chart for RIV sent to me. This may be normal selling to current members or maybe they are bored and trying to sell RIV. I guess it's also possible that it isn't selling well and they are trying different tactics.

Aren’t you an owner at Riviera?

 

[RaymOOOnd]

I have wondered that as well. While sure I would like it better if it was on the Boardwalk but having CBR right there does give additional options to eat and walk around. I like some of the food options at CBR and theming not bad as long as they keep it pretty.

Buses full of high school dance teams aren't going to be annoying to anybody?

 

[Pyotr]

Why does it matter if there is a moderate next to
RIV?

It matters to me. The points needed for a preferred studio is near what a theme park view is at BLT or a lake view at VGF. I understand why those are a premium. Is overlooking the CBR worth a premium? That’s what I want answered before I buy any points there.

If the Riviera has a view of the Epcot or Hollywood studios fireworks, then it may be. I’m just not going to take Disney’s word for it.

 

[ELMC]

Personally, I wouldn’t expend too much energy wondering about this. Despite anecdotal stories to the contrary, OC comptroller numbers tell a different story. The resort is selling just fine. Barring larger macroeconomic factors, the resort will continue the march towards selling out just like every resort that came before it.

If Disney can stomach the delta between how Riviera is selling vs what Disney may have projected/hoped, this resort and subsequent resorts will continue to sell out, these Disney-friendly resale restrictions will become the norm, and Disney will be rewarded handsomely with a system wherein they are the sole entity making money on their timeshare. As a bonus, long time owners will be cast as old timers singing a chorus of “Back in my day...” to the rolling eyes of owners who have never known otherwise.

Buy where you want to stay.

Agreed. I used to be in sales and we often used the phrase "sell the sizzle not the steak". Riviera's sizzle is so great that the quality of the steak doesn't really matter. High point requirements, resale restrictions, high starting maintenance fees, those are all footnotes on a resort that is beautiful, centrally located to two parks, is on the brand new gondola system, has a great layout, awesome room features, etc. etc. etc. The resort shows well and is selling well. The hyper-analytical people like me here on the DIS will question it and likely balk, but we are but a small percentage of the overall DVC membership.

 

[Momtomouselover]

Buses full of high school dance teams aren't going to be annoying to anybody?

On a bus, nah. Not so much. In the room next to me or the hall, etc. sure. Just my opinion though. It really depends if they keep the grounds of Riviera and CBR (since so close) pretty and in good repair IMO.

 

[Madame]

On a bus, nah. Not so much. In the room next to me or the hall, etc. sure. Just my opinion though. It really depends if they keep the grounds of Riviera and CBR (since so close) pretty and in good repair IMO.

Yes but others are citing proximity to CBR’s food court etc as an advantage. If so, then yes it will be annoying.

 

[emchen]

(snip)
Despite anecdotal stories to the contrary, OC comptroller numbers tell a different story. The resort is selling just fine.
(snip)

I, for one, love details like this. So I googled it and found this: https://dvcnews.com/index.php/other...ring-early-sales-for-riviera-to-other-resorts

Thank you @Bing Showei.

 

[Helvetica]

Agreed. I used to be in sales and we often used the phrase "sell the sizzle not the steak". Riviera's sizzle is so great that the quality of the steak doesn't really matter. High point requirements, resale restrictions, high starting maintenance fees, those are all footnotes on a resort that is beautiful, centrally located to two parks, is on the brand new gondola system, has a great layout, awesome room features, etc. etc. etc. The resort shows well and is selling well. The hyper-analytical people like me here on the DIS will question it and likely balk, but we are but a small percentage of the overall DVC membership.

I'm so fascinated by the gondolas. When they were testing them when I was there in May, I would sit down on a bench and watch them go.

The resale restrictions are an issue, but not for everybody. They're the DVC equivalent of a prenuptial agreement. If you go into a marriage planning for the divorce, you get one. If you go into DVC planning to sell eventually, you don't buy Riviera. But if you go into marriage like many others, not even imagining the possibility of it not lasting forever, then what do you care about resale restrictions?

50 years is a long time. It's impossible for me to say what my life will be like when I'm 85, assuming that I live that long. Also, for me just knowing that I'd be paying more for less just bothers me.

If I do end up buying direct at Riveria, I won't be getting a huge contract. Probably just enough for a week in a studio. Having easy access to all the restaurants at Epcot is a great perk and would give me no reason to cook.

 

[emchen]

(snip)

If I do end up buying direct at Riveria, I won't be getting a huge contract. Probably just enough for a week in a studio. Having easy access to all the restaurants at Epcot is a great perk and would give me no reason to cook.

This is probably the best way to go for Riviera.
If I knew it was an option at the time, I would've gotten 50+25 point contracts direct instead of a single 75 point contract.

 

[Bing Showei]

I, for one, love details like this. So I googled it and found this: https://dvcnews.com/index.php/other...ring-early-sales-for-riviera-to-other-resorts

Thank you @Bing Showei.

Wil is an amazing contributor here on these boards (wdrl) and the work he and Tim (tjkraz) have done for the larger Disney timeshare community as a whole by way of DVCNews is invaluable; it’s an amazing resource. Wil updates sales numbers regularly which helps paint a more complete picture and a healthy dose of the reality outside our little bubble.

 

[watchman]

I am new here but reading different threads I would like to say I never bought DVC based on anything but enjoyment. I am a Poly owner and given the current rates I could sell at more than I paid. I never bought with an inclination to sell but to pass on to my kids. I was lucky enough to have someone send me and my family to OKW back in the late 90's.

I could never imagine the amount of money it cost us ( OKW was free the rest we had to pay for) because we did not have a lot of money at the time. I can not say how memorable of an experience we or our kids had either it is just beyond explanation. At the time, given the costs, we never thought we would would come back but remembering the experience our kids had it was a no brainer. The people we met on the buses and monorail and the happy people everywhere changed our thoughts. Never had we been to a place where people treated others like family it was amazing and we ended up coming back every two years.

For years I wanted to buy DVC but my wife couldn't be convinced until a few years ago and we bought at a place we loved to stay at. We have had a recent addition to the family with a daughter in law that came from a family that didn't like Disney at all (think haters)

My wife was seriously concerned she would not love Disney and it would ruin it for her son. She now rivals me in Disney everything so with that being said we will be buying Riviera to have two home bases and be able to have more points for our family to enjoy when we are gone. We would like our family to feel that moment in time when we had so little but was so memorable to all of us to make it worth while.

 

[FFMickey]

Riviera resales are starting to pop up. The point cost still seems steep when you look at the restrictions. I wonder if the sellers didn’t know what they were buying and bought while “in the magic.”

 

[Katie L]

Wil is an amazing contributor here on these boards (wdrl) and the work he and Tim (tjkraz) have done for the larger Disney timeshare community as a whole by way of DVCNews is invaluable; it’s an amazing resource. Wil updates sales numbers regularly which helps paint a more complete picture and a healthy dose of the reality outside our little bubble.

I wonder when he'll update this... been a couple months...

 

[DVC_HK]

Almost pulled the trigger on adding 125 more points today but had to stop myself. I promised myself I'll do it after our wedding instead

 

[Jiminy76]

Yes but others are citing proximity to CBR’s food court etc as an advantage. If so, then yes it will be annoying.

I think being able the access Art of Animations food court via a quick Skyliner ride is a much bigger advantage than going next door to CBR‘s food court IMHO. At least I know that is what I am planning on if the Skyliner starts to run early enough each day.

 

[Madame]

I think being able the access Art of Animations food court via a quick Skyliner ride is a much bigger advantage than going next door to CBR‘s food court IMHO. At least I know that is what I am planning on if the Skyliner starts to run early enough each day.

Yeah, I’d just rather own at BCV and have access to QS, France’s pâtisserie, etc. And that would be my point. DRR is not comparable to BCV or BWV.

 

[Jiminy76]

Yeah, I’d just rather own at BCV and have access to QS, France’s pâtisserie, etc. And that would be my point. DRR is not comparable to BCV or BWV.

About 5 minutes on the Skyliner and people staying at RIV can eat at the Patisserie and boardwalk area as well. People seem to miss the beauty of the Skyliner access for this resort as it practically drops you at security for both DHS and Epcot. BCV and BWV are great resorts but cannot make sense of the resale prices at these resorts at this point.

 

[Madame]

About 5 minutes on the Skyliner and people staying at RIV can eat at the Patisserie and boardwalk area as well. People seem to miss the beauty of the Skyliner access for this resort as it practically drops you at security for both DHS and Epcot. BCV and BWV are great resorts but cannot make sense of the resale prices at these resorts at this point.

Skyliner isn’t even open yet. Think I’ll wait til it is to judge its beauty.

 

[CarolynFH]

I wonder when he'll update this... been a couple months...

The July report was posted on August 15. https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/d...-34867/4548-direct-sales-report-for-july-2019

You can subscribe to the newsletter to find out when the August report is posted.

 

[ray3127]

BCV and BWV are great resorts but cannot make sense of the resale prices at these resorts at this point.

When you factor in the point charts and lower MFs, the prices can make total sense. I haven't done a full financial analysis of this, but my quick comparisons show:
- Anywhere from a 20-40% point premium at Riviera, depending on room type.
- Beach Club dues 20% cheaper
- Boardwalk dues 16% cheaper

For a week in Dream season, the totals are:
- Beach Club studio, 120 points, $832.80 MF
- Boardwalk standard view studio, 104 points, $745.68 MF
- Boardwalk preferred view studio, 125 points, $896.25 MF
- Riviera standard view studio, 130 points, $1,080.30 MF
- Riviera preferred view studio, 162 points, $1,346.22 MF

Those are just a few examples. But I think it's clear how one can justify paying BCV/BWV resale prices as opposed to RIV*.

Some might say "Riviera is a nicer resort", to which I'd say "we'll see."

Some might say "but there's 28 more years on Riviera", to which I'd say "is that necessarily a good thing, especially in light of the resale restrictions?"

And while I am excited about the gondolas and think they'll work well, walking beats relying on any form of transportation.

I almost added on at Riviera in the spring, but ultimately decided against it for many of the reasons listed in this thread.

* One thing I think all of the analysis on the boards is lacking is a metric that captures the true value of a point at a resort. BWV owners don't need as many points as others because of the point charts. As indicated above, 104 BWV points equals 130 RIV points. Some do mention it in passing, like "VGF is a point hungry resort". But I could imagine a weighted-average type of metric that somehow equalized all points. Pick a baseline resort, then re-work the charts from there to facilitate comparisons when deciding where to buy. Of course, a point is a point at 7 months... but the points do go further at some places, of course, and it might be nice to numerically represent that. Something that shows how Boardwalk points go about 25% farther than Riviera in my example above (or you need 25% more points at Riviera for the same room type / length of trip.

I'll get to work