What does Disney Owe "Us"?

[Andyman100385]

Having listened to many of the podcasts, and like most of us being a lifelong lover of Disney World, I have often asked myself the following question: What does Disney owe us?

I usually ask myself this after I find myself getting upset with a decision to change an aspect of the parks that I have always enjoyed, or when I hear complaints about the quality of a meal (Pete and his love of Hollywood and Vine). I think many us assume that Disney owes us based on the amount of passion and money that we or others pour into our hobby. However, it is a business, and oodles of business prevent Disney from caring too much about our expectations. It's bad business to invest a dollar more than necessary to maximize profit. That being said, why do we feel Disney owes us? What about it is different than every other business that operates in the same manner? And how can we reconcile what we feel Disney owes us with the fact that Disney is a business which must maximize profitability (short term and long term.)

I think it is fascinating, and am curious to get others' thoughts. Even more so since we as Disney loyalists will inevitably forgive Disney for almost any imaginable "transgression," we arguably have the least amount of power to enact change.

 

[ThistleMae]

Hmmm good question. I know Disney is a business but I do think there should be some thought put into what will attract people to that business. But I really believe that many folks feel Disney wanted to make Magic for everyone to enjoy and they feel short changed when they think this isn't happening anymore. Philosophically and ideally wouldn't it be wonderful if the parks were there to make everyone happy because it is the happiest place on earth, and everyone should have access to it, rich or poor. It's good in theory, it just doesn't work that way. I can still find the Magic. Some people enjoy complaining and will find fault in most anything, even Disney. Thanks for the thought provoking question.

 

[mousehockey37]

Oh boy, this is gonna take off...

Even more so since we as Disney loyalists will inevitably forgive Disney for almost any imaginable "transgression," we arguably have the least amount of power to enact change.

You are incorrect here, IMO. As you stated, Disney is a business. As you would do with any other business, if you're unhappy with the products, you pull your money and spend it elsewhere.

A few people here and there that don't return to Disney, not a big deal, but if Disney starts to lose their DVC owners, people who vacation there multiple times a year, etc... The trend will start to make waves.

We all have a voice with our money. There's a lot of threads here and elsewhere that people are backing off on vacations to WDW because of all the construction and price increases.

So to say that we have the least amount of power, is inaccurate, because as customers, we hold the businesses fate in our hands.

 

[ThistleMae]

I don't think we are all that powerful. For everyone of us that decides to spend money elsewhere, there is a new generation of babies being born, with new parents, who are ready to take our place.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I don't think we are all that powerful. For everyone of us that decides to spend money elsewhere, there is a new generation of babies being born, with new parents, who are ready to take our place.

True, but I also think a lot of the attraction to Disney - and more specifically a trip to Walt Disney World - is positive word of mouth and people thinking the family down the street loves it so much we should go, etc. .... so if that sentiment changes there will be a ripple effect. it might take a while, but it can have an effect.

I struggle with this question as Disney is totally a business and their main responsibility is to the shareholders. However, as I am a shareholder I want a company that is looking long term and not for short term gains (I assume most DIS shareholders are like me and plan to keep the stock, and not day-traders)

Part of the value of Disney, and thus the DIS ticker, is the history of the company and their reputation for theming and customer service - so even thinking as a business, is it worth it to save 5% on cleaning costs by reducing the number of cast members dedicated to cleaning the parks if that trad-off is a bunch of loyal consumers thinking "the park is much dirtier than I remember"? I think that is more relevant to a company like Disney compared to others

 

[KingLlama]

I feel like Disney owes us an explanation for "Mars Needs Moms". I mean, what was that.

 

[ThistleMae]

To be honest, I haven't noticed the parks being less kept. I have been totally impressed with how much care they take in keeping everything so nice. I just can't complain. I still don't think it will ever lose popularity. There is nothing else like it in the world! That's a pretty impressive resume.

 

[Accident]

I think it is fascinating, and am curious to get others' thoughts. Even more so since we as Disney loyalists will inevitably forgive Disney for almost any imaginable "transgression," we arguably have the least amount of power to enact change.

I don't know if I would use the term owes us but I want to see disney parks get back to what they once were. We know they can do it, they've done it in the asian parks recently but for some reason WDW is the dumping ground for attractions that should have been changed a long time ago. It's been minimalist disney since AK was built and now we're really in minimalist disney with how they are lighting a couple candles and calling it fireworks. 2 rides and lots of places to spend money is not a good balance for new lands in my opinion. but they've used that formula for a long time and it's making them enough money that they aren't doing more. "that's it" shouldn't be in our vocabulary when it comes to a disney park and it's a mojo they lost a long time ago and I don't see it changing.

I do like they are finally doing something so to a degree, I think they finally get that they've abandoned too much of WDW for too long but we're getting things at the expense of other favorites so maybe they don't get it.

The best way I can put it is look at what universal has become. They are what disney once was with how they are constantly changing it, keeping up the number of attractions and keeping them refreshed to continue to be exciting a decade or two later. refurbing the swiss family treehouse was a waste of time and money for example. it should have been replaced.

 

[ThistleMae]

I guess I can't compare Disney to what it used to be. I've only been three times. So for someone who is new to Disney, it's fabulous! I also wonder if the experience seems less spectacular for folks who have been going for years and years. The first few times you go are phenomenal, by about the 30th time...it may lose it's appeal. I don't know. For me...it's amazing!

 

[marcyleecorgan]

I am a newbie but I feel like if you start thinking, "What does Disney owe us?", you've already lost some of the Magical Pixie Dust and you'll never get it back.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

True, but I also think a lot of the attraction to Disney - and more specifically a trip to Walt Disney World - is positive word of mouth and people thinking the family down the street loves it so much we should go, etc. .... so if that sentiment changes there will be a ripple effect. it might take a while, but it can have an effect.

I struggle with this question as Disney is totally a business and their main responsibility is to the shareholders. However, as I am a shareholder I want a company that is looking long term and not for short term gains (I assume most DIS shareholders are like me and plan to keep the stock, and not day-traders)

Part of the value of Disney, and thus the DIS ticker, is the history of the company and their reputation for theming and customer service - so even thinking as a business, is it worth it to save 5% on cleaning costs by reducing the number of cast members dedicated to cleaning the parks if that trad-off is a bunch of loyal consumers thinking "the park is much dirtier than I remember"? I think that is more relevant to a company like Disney compared to others

@TheMaxRebo - Was struggling to decide if I even wanted to try and put something together to voice my feelings, and feeling like I somehow failed to put my emotions into words, as usual. And I definitely think being a stockholder as well as a guest is an important perspective. As usual, you have so adequately and eloquently stated how I feel, and have been increasingly feeling over the years. Thank you, and AMEN!!

I will add one statement that I usually use in this situation - as a stockholder - yes - it's important to make money, and see a company achieve or attain robust financial health. But some things - like the way Disney makes me feel, or the smile on someone's face - are PRICELESS.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I don't know if I would use the term owes us but I want to see disney parks get back to what they once were. We know they can do it, they've done it in the asian parks recently but for some reason WDW is the dumping ground for attractions that should have been changed a long time ago. It's been minimalist disney since AK was built and now we're really in minimalist disney with how they are lighting a couple candles and calling it fireworks. 2 rides and lots of places to spend money is not a good balance for new lands in my opinion. but they've used that formula for a long time and it's making them enough money that they aren't doing more. "that's it" shouldn't be in our vocabulary when it comes to a disney park and it's a mojo they lost a long time ago and I don't see it changing.

I do like they are finally doing something so to a degree, I think they finally get that they've abandoned too much of WDW for too long but we're getting things at the expense of other favorites so maybe they don't get it.

The best way I can put it is look at what universal has become. They are what disney once was with how they are constantly changing it, keeping up the number of attractions and keeping them refreshed to continue to be exciting a decade or two later. refurbing the swiss family treehouse was a waste of time and money for example. it should have been replaced.

The challenge is Disney has the history and nostalgia that universal doesn't. If they announced they were getting rid of Swiss Family Treehouse there would be people out their chaining themselves to it so it couldn't be torn down (personally I love it and glad they refurbed it)

I think that is why I always go back to the cleanliness or any experiences with less than magical CMs - the customer service. That is what separates Disney and no reason they can't have that even with all the construction at DHS or the stale attractions in EPCOT, etc

 

[Accident]

I struggle with this question as Disney is totally a business and their main responsibility is to the shareholders. However, as I am a shareholder I want a company that is looking long term and not for short term gains (I assume most DIS shareholders are like me and plan to keep the stock, and not day-traders)

I think pandora is actually going to be the tipping point. WDW is filled with lots of people that never go to other properties and what disney could be is about to be in full view for the first time in a long time at WDW. I think there is also a little of the ripple effect started but that's more people who are deciding it's time to wait a little longer or holding off their trips for when it's more fruitful with the new stuff coming. Now we're going to start to see "*** disney, why is the rest so run down and corners cut for so long" impact. Partially this is going to be accelerated with how great universal is doing and there is now a comparison of someone doing it better than disney and starting to get really aggressive in making it apples to apples when it comes to lodging, parks available, etc etc etc...

I disagree with shareholders and business view. It's a customer service product and when the customer isn't happy there is no way to make the shareholder happy. It's how do you get the run down property back to it's glory without pissing off the shareholders while doing it. Right now, removing more and more things has had an impact on me, I'm not rushing out to the parks and there's been trips in where I wondered why I bothered coming that night.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I guess I can't compare Disney to what it used to be. I've only been three times. So for someone who is new to Disney, it's fabulous! I also wonder if the experience seems less spectacular for folks who have been going for years and years. The first few times you go are phenomenal, by about the 30th time...it may lose it's appeal. I don't know. For me...it's amazing!

I don't know if I ever looses it's magic. I see people who have gone for years that still get the Disney *feels*. Heck, I recall a few times seeing Pete from the DIS post on social media a picture of Cinderella's castle with the caption "never gets old"

What I do think can happen is a sense of "back in my day" and wishing the parks operated like the used to. Yeah, it was great back when you could easily get same day dining reservations for wherever you wanted or there was a true slow season or that fast pass wasn't needed - but things evolve and that just isn't realistic anymore so the best you can do to just enjoy your trip for what it is and live in the moment and make memories the better you will be I think

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think pandora is actually going to be the tipping point. WDW is filled with lots of people that never go to other properties and what disney could be is about to be in full view for the first time in a long time at WDW. I think there is also a little of the ripple effect started but that's more people who are deciding it's time to wait a little longer or holding off their trips for when it's more fruitful with the new stuff coming. Now we're going to start to see "*** disney, why is the rest so run down and corners cut for so long" impact. Partially this is going to be accelerated with how great universal is doing and there is now a comparison of someone doing it better than disney and starting to get really aggressive in making it apples to apples when it comes to lodging, parks available, etc etc etc...

I disagree with shareholders and business view. It's a customer service product and when the customer isn't happy there is no way to make the shareholder happy. It's how do you get the run down property back to it's glory without pissing off the shareholders while doing it. Right now, removing more and more things has had an impact on me, I'm not rushing out to the parks and there's been trips in where I wondered why I bothered coming that night.

I do think it is fair to question why Disney took so long to make in investments into the parks they now seem to be doing. They had Fantasyland expansion but before that the last big thing was there opening of Animal Kingdom. If they had totally refurbed Future World already so you had a major updat to MK and EPCOT already done I think it would be easier to deal with things. But right now you have incomplete AK and DHS and EPCOT which I love but needs help/an overhaul to half of it - so really only MK and a proper park right now

I think by the 50th when you have AK and DHS fully updated and probably at least some updates to EPCOT it will be a very different experience and feel about the parks

 

[GAN]

So to say that we have the least amount of power, is inaccurate, because as customers, we hold the businesses fate in our hands.

I don't think it's inaccurate at all -probably like yourself, I've been following Disney for a pretty long time ..visiting pretty regularly since the mid-80's so 30 years anyway. I've also owned stock for a while -bought it around $20/share so that will give you an idea. Honestly, I don't think Disney really cares about "us" -the long-time guests/fanatics ...not that they don't want us, they'll take our money all day long. But they've figured out that if I(or anyone else) walks ..they'll fill my bed without any problem, allowing them to potentially lower standards(which in my opinion -they have been lowered over the last decade or so). As a DVC owner -they also know that I can rent my points to someone in literally less than a day if I never want to go back -I've had to close Rental posts in 30 minutes. So I'd be the fool if I got rid of them at this point. The formula is that there will ALWAYS be someone coming up behind us -as long as people keep having children and want to take them on a Disney vacation. To these new guests, their frame of reference is not the same as mine -so the things that bother me, are perfectly(well to a degree) acceptable to them. So we really don't have power and definitely don't hold their fate in our hands. The Disney Company would have to have a MASSIVE fail for that to take place -and it certainly won't be in my lifetime. There is an imaginary line of service or supply and demand -and I feel they don't want to be too far below it(to keep most people happy and take away our ability to control them) -and they don't want to be too high, so as not to give us more than we should have for our money. To a degree this is where the change has taken place -30 years ago I believe they had no service ceiling. There have been clear examples of this over the years -one recent one was with the increase in price of the Express Service going Park-to-Park. Guests liked it -they drove the price up. Just my thoughts!

 

[Accident]

There have been clear examples of this over the years -one recent one was with the increase in price of the Express Service going Park-to-Park. Guests liked it -they drove the price up.

I don't think this is a good example. This is a great example of how disney didn't overprice something out of the gate and adjusted it once they knew how many were using it. There just isn't a lot of people on any given bus. I also think they made a huge mistake having the last bus of the night leave the park while the night entertainment is still happening. Parks (not mk) that close before other ones I tend to want to catch their night show and shoot over to mk for a few hours. that just isn't possible with the time they stop running them. I would use it a lot more if they did that. I also would pay a yearly fee as an AP to just have it available at anytime depending on price.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I think DVC and on-site guest need more perks. There should be more included in packages. Maybe 4 Fastpasses or allowing park to park transportation in order to make the Park Hooper ticket even more so valuable.

 

[GreatLakes]

Disney owes "us" the exact same thing every other company owes us, a product that we perceive as a value for our dollar. Outside of extreme examples the demand side of economics will always control the supply side. If the collective consumer decides that Disney doesn't offer a product they want to purchase they will stop purchasing it forcing a change on the supply side.

I do think more loyal customers should be treated well and get more but that isn't something we are owed, it is just good business in the long term. Over the past few years it seems the long term brand equity of the parks is suffering a bit for the short term financial gains but that is a function of short-sighted management. Not necessarily bad management but short-sighted in my opinion.

 

[GAN]

I don't think this is a good example. This is a great example of how disney didn't overprice something out of the gate and adjusted it once they knew how many were using it.

Maybe so ....but does anyone believe that they PURPOSELY set the price low just to raise it? I think they priced it at "fair value" and when it caught fire, it became a money grab.