What I find is missed by "Disney is a business"

[kbelle8995]

Cabana Bay Resort at Universall Studios is the resort you wish POP Century was.
Visit for the holidays… that enormous lobby with Swizzles Bar is filled with those aluminum Christmas trees that sparkle to the skylight above!
And bowling alley with Jack Lalllane Fitness Guru from the 50s , upstairs and fun arcade !!! And double sided fire pits to roast marshmallows late into the night …

I love Cabana Bay so much. One of my favorite hotels and it is beautiful at Christmas. So many pretty decorations. And the lazy river is great

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I keep seeing the argument about Walt not wanting this. Walt was terrible with finances and if he had been allowed to do everything the way he wanted The Disney company would have been out of business decades ago. He was a visionary, but NOT a businessman.

I don’t agree. He didn’t have to be great with finances, you hire good people for that. I don’t believe he would be ok seeing CMs live pay check to pay check. Watching families iron grilled cheese sandwich’s in order to afford visiting. Walt had a heart and a vision which is what Disney seems to be lacking. I don’t believe he would be ok with the money gouging Chapek is about to go through with this company. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. How much money does one persons need?

 

[fumanchu2488]

Isn't this similar to the "if people didn't like price increases they wouldn't pay" argument? If everyone was complaining about crowds, wouldn't they have stopped going? And if they continued to go, just as they continued to pay, doesn't that negate their right to complain about it?

I am being more than a tad facetious, but the point holds. ALL issues raised by customers are valid discussions and should not be dismissed.

And along the issue of crowds, there are other ways to disperse crowds, namely through increased capacity. And in the past Disney did this by having plentiful A-C tickets. The D's and E's sold the tickets, and the ABC's keep the guests happy once they were there. But in recent years new lands have been opened without the supporting "lower" level attractions, at least not in the appropriate ratio. So the crowds flock to ride Rise of the Resistance and Flight of Passage, but there isn't enough being added to keep them occupied while they wait. So the pre-existing attractions and other guest areas become more crowded. So sure, as of today, raising prices is the fastest way to address this issue. But long term, having appropriate capacity is likely more effective and in this case Disney has dropped that ball by not reacting to those customer complaints for years.

I agree with what you are saying here. Crowds are a direct representation of demand. Disney realized that even increasing their ticket price, demand was still high. Then Disney took advantage and started creating different prices based on higher demand (crowded) times of the year. As an example, in 2014 a ticket to MK was $99 for the day (all days in the year). In 2019 a ticket to MK for peak time was $159 for the day. A 60% increase in 5 years. And still they had huge crowds for those peak days.

As a personal example, I hadn't been to Disney in years. I went in January 2019 and had a great trip. Loved it so much we booked a trip for end of October into first week of November 2019. Not having been in the Disney loop for years I wasn't aware of crowd surges. Little did I know how popular food and wine was, or that there was a marathon, or that thing called 'Jersey Week' existed. For me, the two days that weekend were the worst experience I have had on a vacation. I will never go back to Disney for that weekend again. Some people don't mind the crowds or look forward to that weekend.

At the end of the day it all boils down to people feeling like they are having a good experience for what they pay. For me, the lack of magical express is a killer. With two small kids, a free bus with no car seats and baggage handling is a huge perk. That is the thing that is the biggest deal for me. For others, they may have never used magical express. I think 'appropriate capacity' is the right term. They have to balance the cost of admission with the experience you have. And controlling capacity is the key to that.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Hey guys, I deleted several posts. It's okay to disagree with the members on the podcast team. It is NOT okay to take potshots at them.

 

[raidermatt]

I don’t agree. He didn’t have to be great with finances, you hire good people for that.

True. Walt was an excellent businessman. He was not an expert in high finance, but that was Roy's area. Walt had a keen grasp of what people wanted and how to provide it You can have all the finance knowledge in the world, but it won't save your business if you can't figure out how to meet customer wants and needs. Taking it a step further, Walt was able to figure out what people wanted before they themselves knew they wanted it. He didn't need to take a survey to find out if people wanted Disneyland. 99.9% can't articulate what they want when its something they have never even imagined before. But Walt knew if he provided the Disneyland he envisioned, they would love it. Same with animated films. So yes, he was an excellent businessman.

 

[kbelle8995]

Isn't this similar to the "if people didn't like price increases they wouldn't pay" argument? If everyone was complaining about crowds, wouldn't they have stopped going? And if they continued to go, just as they continued to pay, doesn't that negate their right to complain about it?

I am being more than a tad facetious, but the point holds. ALL issues raised by customers are valid discussions and should not be dismissed.

And along the issue of crowds, there are other ways to disperse crowds, namely through increased capacity. And in the past Disney did this by having plentiful A-C tickets. The D's and E's sold the tickets, and the ABC's keep the guests happy once they were there. But in recent years new lands have been opened without the supporting "lower" level attractions, at least not in the appropriate ratio. So the crowds flock to ride Rise of the Resistance and Flight of Passage, but there isn't enough being added to keep them occupied while they wait. So the pre-existing attractions and other guest areas become more crowded. So sure, as of today, raising prices is the fastest way to address this issue. But long term, having appropriate capacity is likely more effective and in this case Disney has dropped that ball by not reacting to those customer complaints for years.

And the reduction of entertainment. No citizens of Hollywood. And we need more music performances In the park

 

[TeddieM]

You create Brand Loyalty by meeting and exceeding expectations for consumers by providing experiences and products that go beyond the norm. The Disney can do no wrong crowd didn’t pop up over night, it was built on years of focusing on the satisfaction/guest experience and providing a standard that other companies didn’t dare meet. That’s the true “magic”.

The nuance is once you get people sucked into the magic they will happily empty out their bank accounts. People will gladly max out their credit cards as long as they feel their happiness is part of the experience. The transition to continually eliminating “magical” perks and Shopping Mall lands where 14 acres of new development ends up with 2 rides (1 that most people cannot even get on) and 10 stores/pay to play experiences crosses that line where as a consumer you feel your happiness is secondary to being solely viewed as an ATM machine.

The excuses of “Disney is a business” and “Disney can only control crowds by raising prices” as justifications to make the experience less and charge more are the ideals of short term business men (let’s call them “Bob’s”) especially when your main theme is selling a dream. Spending countless more dollars on stores and hotels vs more and more experiences which would suck visitors in at the parks just sounds disingenuous when you continually harp on park overcrowding.

How many people continue to go to Disney to try and recreate the happiness they had in prior experiences ? All I know is “Disney being a business” was always the last thing on my mind as I gladly paid up for whatever experiences that contributed to my happiness and imagination. Yes Disney is doing well now but entertainment is a fickle industry and customer satisfaction is paramount first and foremost - that's the real "business" of a theme park.

 

[OKW Lover]

He didn’t have to be great with finances, you hire good people for that. I don’t believe he would be ok seeing CMs live pay check to pay check.

History shows that Walt was pretty indifferent to what his employees were paid. To the point that the animators formed a union in the late 30's/early 40's and actually went on strike.

How much money does one persons need?

Easy answer. More.

 

[lopo]

I have absolutely no problem with Disney making money (yes, they are a business; we get it.) However, I do have a problem with Disney (and other companies) gouging people. How many times have we heard Disney's (or fill in the name) profits are up 10% this year, yet each year the companies are not satisfied with their profits; they want more and more and more. Personally, I think it is satisfactory that shareholders earn profits on their investments. I do not think that it is necessary for striving to surpass previous profits at the expense of customer service and offerings.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I have absolutely no problem with Disney making money (yes, they are a business; we get it.) However, I do have a problem with Disney (and other companies) gouging people. How many times have we heard Disney's (or fill in the name) profits are up 10% this year, yet each year the companies are not satisfied with their profits; they want more and more and more. Personally, I think it is satisfactory that shareholders earn profits on their investments. I do not think that it is necessary for striving to surpass previous profits at the expense of customer service and offerings.

Totally agree with all you've said, and I am a long-time shareholder so can speak from that standpoint, I'm sad to say I've thought about selling the last few years, as I no longer "feel the magic, and want to support the company that provides that feeling" like I di when I bought it a long time ago. Yes - I AM one of those "crazy fans" who bought because of the love of Walt, and his legacy, and the feelings of love, happiness, and magic the company and its offerings brought to me and others, and NOT to make a profit.

 

[OneinThree]

WDW's offerings are private, excludable, as opposed to public, non-excludable, or a resource. As such, price necessarily addresses demand. It's predictable that they finally allow price increases to control the insane overselling of their goods and services. I'd rather fewer trips fit in the budget than to continue to watch the value of the experience diminish as they pile hoards of guests into the parks where they sell food and Chinese trinkets to said sea of bodies.

 

[PirateBrigade]

I have absolutely no problem with Disney making money (yes, they are a business; we get it.) However, I do have a problem with Disney (and other companies) gouging people. How many times have we heard Disney's (or fill in the name) profits are up 10% this year, yet each year the companies are not satisfied with their profits; they want more and more and more. Personally, I think it is satisfactory that shareholders earn profits on their investments. I do not think that it is necessary for striving to surpass previous profits at the expense of customer service and offerings.

But as a shareholder, if Disney profits are up 10% (and for the sake of argument, let's say the stock price goes up 10%), but I have alternatives that went up 15-20% in the same period, I'm not going to be happy.

If I read an analyst's report that says Disney can charge DOUBLE and the market will bear it, and Disney doesn't do it, I'm going to agitate and vote my shares for a board and CEO that will execute those changes... dare I say, some shareholders may even sue the board for breach of fiduciary duty.

That's why I expected to pay more and get less with the latest annual pass offerings at DLR... and that's what we got.

 

[fumanchu2488]

But as a shareholder, if Disney profits are up 10% (and for the sake of argument, let's say the stock price goes up 10%), but I have alternatives that went up 15-20% in the same period, I'm not going to be happy.

If I read an analyst's report that says Disney can charge DOUBLE and the market will bear it, and Disney doesn't do it, I'm going to agitate and vote my shares for a board and CEO that will execute those changes... dare I say, some shareholders may even sue the board for breach of fiduciary duty.

That's why I expected to pay more and get less with the latest annual pass offerings at DLR... and that's what we got.

This! The argument people make that they invested in a company because they liked it and not because it was focused on profit makes no sense. Why would you ever own a company not focused on making money? Given, the new ESGV companies are great, but at the end of the day the reason you invest is to increase equity through growth or income through profit.

I was watching a YouTube video where Steve Jobs was asked if he felt a responsibility to provide a more affordable Mac laptop or PC for people that couldn’t afford his products. His response was essentially that he would never sell a product that he didn’t feel met the standards of an Apple product and that the price of their products reflect that quality. Disney has a similar situation. The argument I think could be made is, with these price increases, is the quality of the experience at Disney going to get better because of less crowds and more offerings or are they increasing pricing and simultaneously limiting the offering. Time will tell.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

This! The argument people make that they invested in a company because they liked it and not because it was focused on profit makes no sense. Why would you ever own a company not focused on making money? Given, the new ESGV companies are great, but at the end of the day the reason you invest is to increase equity through growth or income through profit.

I was watching a YouTube video where Steve Jobs was asked if he felt a responsibility to provide a more affordable Mac laptop or PC for people that couldn’t afford his products. His response was essentially that he would never sell a product that he didn’t feel met the standards of an Apple product and that the price of their products reflect that quality. Disney has a similar situation. The argument I think could be made is, with these price increases, is the quality of the experience at Disney going to get better because of less crowds and more offerings or are they increasing pricing and simultaneously limiting the offering. Time will tell.

Not arguing, but saying there ARE those of us that did NOT buy DIS to make a profit - please re-read the last p0art of my post above, to explain whey I DID buy. I can't even TELL you the last time I even checked to see what the stock is trading at, that's how much I don't care.

Am I "out of the ordinary" and "not your typical" shareholder? Yep, I'll grant you that. But - I also FERVENTLY wish there were many more like me out there!! SO many things in this life are SO much more important to me than money - as long as I'm "comfortable", I'm good, and MUCH more focused on the intangible, happiness-inducing concerns in this life!

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I have absolutely no problem with Disney making money (yes, they are a business; we get it.) However, I do have a problem with Disney (and other companies) gouging people. How many times have we heard Disney's (or fill in the name) profits are up 10% this year, yet each year the companies are not satisfied with their profits; they want more and more and more. Personally, I think it is satisfactory that shareholders earn profits on their investments. I do not think that it is necessary for striving to surpass previous profits at the expense of customer service and offerings.

IMO, "Gouging" only occurs when we're talking about a necessity. Selling water or gasoline for $5/gallon before a hurricane makes landfall or something.

A vacation at a Disney park is discretionary.

 

[PirateBrigade]

Not arguing, but saying there ARE those of us that did NOT buy DIS to make a profit - please re-read the last p0art of my post above, to explain whey I DID buy. I can't even TELL you the last time I even checked to see what the stock is trading at, that's how much I don't care.

Am I "out of the ordinary" and "not your typical" shareholder? Yep, I'll grant you that. But - I also FERVENTLY wish there were many more like me out there!! SO many things in this life are SO much more important to me than money - as long as I'm "comfortable", I'm good, and MUCH more focused on the intangible, happiness-inducing concerns in this life!

If I want intangible happiness, I buy a Disneyland ticket. If I want record breaking profits, strategic acquisitions, stable dividends, and rockin’ straddle options, I look for DIS stock.

I use the latter to fund the former, so I want DIS (and the rest of my portfolio) to focus on making money so I can spend mine on churros and balloons!

 

[fumanchu2488]

If I want intangible happiness, I buy a Disneyland ticket. If I want record breaking profits, strategic acquisitions, stable dividends, and rockin’ straddle options, I look for DIS stock.

I use the latter to fund the former, so I want DIS (and the rest of my portfolio) to focus on making money so I can spend mine on churros and balloons!

Speaking of which, please bring back the dividend!

 

[wdwobsessed]

WDW's offerings are private, excludable, as opposed to public, non-excludable, or a resource. As such, price necessarily addresses demand. It's predictable that they finally allow price increases to control the insane overselling of their goods and services. I'd rather fewer trips fit in the budget than to continue to watch the value of the experience diminish as they pile hoards of guests into the parks where they sell food and Chinese trinkets to said sea of bodies.

Yes!! This. All. Day!!!

 

[woodleygrrl]

I don’t agree. He didn’t have to be great with finances, you hire good people for that. I don’t believe he would be ok seeing CMs live pay check to pay check. Watching families iron grilled cheese sandwich’s in order to afford visiting. Walt had a heart and a vision which is what Disney seems to be lacking. I don’t believe he would be ok with the money gouging Chapek is about to go through with this company. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. How much money does one persons need?

don't get it twisted: Walt was a Union buster who also didn't think women belonged beside men at the studio. Lets not make this dude out to be a saint.

 

[jujubiee4]

My favorite line of Pete's is when he said " They are running a business not a half way house" LOLLLL