What is going on with Disney parks?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Let's be honest, it's nothing to do with nationality or money, it's to do with entitlement. It's the 'the rules don't count for me' attitude to people who smoke, bring in selfie sticks or those carts that are now supposedly banned.

What do you do when it's not a case of entitlement but rather part of someone's culture?

South American tour groups for quite a while have the rep of linking arms and blocking people's access, running in large groups cutting in front of people, chanting on and on and in what most deem inappropriate times and places, etc. It's not normally a sense of entitlement there it's just part of their culture. Regardless it's normally considered a significant disruption and many on the Boards attempt to avoid them either by going at a different time of the year or by not staying at the Values where generally speaking they are staying at.

Now obviously these behaviors can be had with cheerleading groups too but it is considered part of a culture, especially the chanting, for South American tour groups as well as the 15s.

I don't necessarily agree with the other poster (nor do I frankly agree with a variety of your points but that's neither here nor there) nor do I have an issue with South American tour groups. I just wouldn't want anyone to do what they do regardless of their nationality. That said they do have quite the rep for that at least amongst the Boards and people do not generally speaking associate their behaviors as part of a sense of entitlement.

 

[Rusty2rules]

Utter nonsense. First point about where guests stay, how do they know where you are staying?

Utter nonsense? I think you missed my point. Never did I suggest they knew where I'm staying. The point I was making was, because they're spending "X" amount of ungodly money on their vacation, they think they're entitled to do whatever they want in the parks because they paid so much to be there.

Your comment about the scooters and strollers made me laugh! Totally agree. I also agree with your comment about protecting their CMs. It's a shame they don't, it really is.

 

[Alynw]

What do you do when it's not a case of entitlement but rather part of someone's culture?

South American tour groups for quite a while have the rep of linking arms and blocking people's access, running in large groups cutting in front of people, chanting on and on and in what most deem inappropriate times and places, etc. It's not normally a sense of entitlement there it's just part of their culture. Regardless it's normally considered a significant disruption and many on the Boards attempt to avoid them either by going at a different time of the year or by not staying at the Values where generally speaking they are staying at.

Now obviously these behaviors can be had with cheerleading groups too but it is considered part of a culture, especially the chanting, for South American tour groups as well as the 15s.

I don't necessarily agree with the other poster (nor do I frankly agree with a variety of your points but that's neither here nor there) nor do I have an issue with South American tour groups. I just wouldn't want anyone to do what they do regardless of their nationality. That said they do have quite the rep for that at least amongst the Boards and people do not generally speaking associate their behaviors as part of a sense of entitlement.

You still enforce the rules. Just because it's part of someone's culture from where their from doesn't mean or make it acceptable here. There are cultures that walk around nude yet when they come to the states they put on clothes because they are smart enough to know that it's not acceptable here. So for anyone to try and use that as an excuse to cut in line and push people out of the way is complete bs. Anyone, whether they know or understand the rules or not can look around and see that everyone gets in line and waits their turn, you don't see everyone fighting and pushing for positions so there is no reason at all for someone to think it acceptable. Which brings us back to the point that people are trying to make that this type of behavior keeps getting worse as the CM's are not doing anything to prevent this from happening. With prices rising the way they have, people's tolerance for this behavior is getting lower. Disney needs to recognize it takes more than just new rides to justify such high prices, the quality of your experience needs to improve as well, meaning the CM's need to step up their game and start enforcing the rules. Whether its Americans or whoever acting unruly, Disney needs to do a better job of controlling and enforcing penalties on those that can't follow the rules and act civilized. If you go into McDonalds to eat u don't have any right to complain about children running around and being noisy but if u went to Hell's Kitchen to eat u absolutely expect certain standards and this is because of the amount of money u are paying for the experience. As prices go up, so should the quality.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You still enforce the rules. Just because it's part of someone's culture from where their from doesn't mean or make it acceptable here. There are cultures that walk around nude yet when they come to the states they put on clothes because they are smart enough to know that it's not acceptable here. So for anyone to try and use that as an excuse to cut in line and push people out of the way is complete bs. Anyone, whether they know or understand the rules or not can look around and see that everyone gets in line and waits their turn, you don't see everyone fighting and pushing for positions so there is no reason at all for someone to think it acceptable. Which brings us back to the point that people are trying to make that this type of behavior keeps getting worse as the CM's are not doing anything to prevent this from happening. With prices rising the way they have, people's tolerance for this behavior is getting lower. Disney needs to recognize it takes more than just new rides to justify such high prices, the quality of your experience needs to improve as well, meaning the CM's need to step up their game and start enforcing the rules. Whether its Americans or whoever acting unruly, Disney needs to do a better job of controlling and enforcing penalties on those that can't follow the rules and act civilized. If you go into McDonalds to eat u don't have any right to complain about children running around and being noisy but if u went to Hell's Kitchen to eat u absolutely expect certain standards and this is because of the amount of money u are paying for the experience. As prices go up, so should the quality.

Yes I wasn't saying don't enforce the rules sorry it was a poorly worded sentence

I was responding to the poster saying it's not about nationality but entitled attitude. Sometimes it does actually come down to cultural differences as the individuals don't have that behavior because of entitlement. I do agree with you that it shouldn't mean they get a pass though. I also agree Disney should do a better job just in general of control. The downside is I think they, like so many other customer-faced industries, is they have an uphill battle. I would love for the hammer if you will to come down on people for certain things but unfortunately it seem rare these days (at least perception-wise that's what it feels like). I remember in retail the amount of times I was backed up by my manager was so few and far between and this was 10+ years ago. There was giving good customer service and there was kowtowing to appease people for fear of losing their business even when 100% they were in the wrong--it's why I never liked the "customer is always right" saying. That saying can lead to a not so nice environment for employees when they don't feel like they can actually enforce a policy AND be backed up by their manager for doing so.

In terms of some things though I think guests sometimes present such a safety risk that the CMs shouldn't be involved (I'm picturing the extremely irate customer who may get physical) and instead security should be but the CMs may not even want to get involved in that (and honestly I get that to an extent) to begin with.

I totally agree with the empowerment aspect spoken about throughout the thread but that will only do 'good' if they have the backing (when they are in the right of course) from their managers because otherwise it's just back to the whole thing we've got now.

 

[Alynw]

I definitely agree, it seems to be rare anymore that individuals get penalized for breaking the rules. I also agree that the issue Disney is faced with isn't as easy to fix as we would like to think. But after seeing that so many people have either experienced or seen this type of behavior, then its definitely happening way to much and Disney needs to come up with a plan to reduce the amount of incidents happening. My daughter almost got crushed at the Pandora FOP ride a couple years ago and there was several CM's there and it wasn't until I started getting physical and throwing people off my daughter that one guy got involved to help us. I never really realized how dangerous a crowd could be until that moment. That was also the first time I'd ever seen people lock hands and just plow through people with total disregard for children and women and absolutely nothing happened to anyone. I never knew that was even a thing like one of the other posters mentioned. Those are the types of actions that Disney has got to stop and better train their personnel to better recognize before it even gets to that point. The CM's could've very easily made people get in a uniform line and monitor the line to ensure everything went ok but they just sat back and let the crowd build into a massive group with no order and just dropped the rope and jumped out of the way. I don't have the answer but now that people are paying a high premium they are going to expect better conditions.

 

[ClapYourHands]

if your budget conscience and you choose economy resort with free bussing and watch your budget, u can stay onsite comparable to offsite prices.

Value resorts vs offsite is only a fair price comparison if you have 4 people or fewer in your group. Once you are a family of 5, you have to upgrade to at least a mod or get two rooms. With rates for Values now sometimes in excess of $150, getting 2 rooms is no longer a bargain option. In contrast, there are many offsite options that will easily fit a larger family for far less, even once you add in car rental and parking fees.

When I went solo with just my two older kids, there were no savings offsite vs onsite. Next month I'm headed down with just the youngest, and we will split between a Value and a Disney Springs hotel. But when all 5 of us went? A nice two bedroom over at Sheraton Vistana gave us more room for less money.

 

[belleatdisney]

I recently cancelled our package. I found a nice off site resort for much less than a moderate. We drive so don’t want/ use Disney buses.

The $$$$ for non hopper tickets where I had to choose dates drove me mad. Having to do logistical gymnastics to plan a vacation is not my idea of fun.

Resort parking fees, crowds, loss of night time parade, early closures for paid events, short staff so even with low crowds you wait. At a certain point I had to say this isn’t worth it.

I am considering the mid day magic tickets. It would cost significantly less. Or we are going to US. Right now I am leaning towards US.

 

[ClapYourHands]

I recently cancelled our package. I found a nice off site resort for much less than a moderate. We drive so don’t want/ use Disney buses.

The $$$$ for non hopper tickets where I had to choose dates drove me mad. Having to do logistical gymnastics to plan a vacation is not my idea of fun.

Resort parking fees, crowds, loss of night time parade, early closures for paid events, short staff so even with low crowds you wait. At a certain point I had to say this isn’t worth it.

I am considering the mid day magic tickets. It would cost significantly less. Or we are going to US. Right now I am leaning towards US.

If your kids are of an age where Universal would hold their interests, this is probably a good time to test the waters over there. My older two absolutely loved it when we went (aged 9 and almost-8 at the time). My youngest is 4, so Universal is not yet a good option for her. Both IOA and US have a dedicated area that's good for younger kids, but the rest of the park is really geared toward older kids and adults. I think it would be difficult to find enough to do for a whole vacation if you have kids who are too small for most of the height restricted rides.

One option is to do Universal for the main vacation, and then a one-night hard ticketed event such as a party or DAH to get your "Disney fix," if your crew would be disappointed by an Orlando trip that doesn't include Disney.

 

[Rusty2rules]

I recently cancelled our package. I found a nice off site resort for much less than a moderate. We drive so don’t want/ use Disney buses.

The $$$$ for non hopper tickets where I had to choose dates drove me mad. Having to do logistical gymnastics to plan a vacation is not my idea of fun.

Resort parking fees, crowds, loss of night time parade, early closures for paid events, short staff so even with low crowds you wait. At a certain point I had to say this isn’t worth it.

I am considering the mid day magic tickets. It would cost significantly less. Or we are going to US. Right now I am leaning towards US.

I had to look at your name a couple of times. I was, like, "bell eat disney"? Sometimes I'm a little slow...okay, a lot slow. I blame it on old age. LOL

 

[Searc]

Didn't they reduce the number of smoking areas recently? Wonder if they went too far with that and smokers are rebelling.

Most smokers assume because they are outside, they can smoke wherever they'd like, especially non-Americans.

 

[belleatdisney]

Ha, I am old too.

We travel with 3 adults and last Feb we spent 10 days in Naples and 4 in Orlando. I didn’t miss the parks that much. We strolled around and ate at our favorite resorts. Our wedding was at GF so we like to visit. We come from the North so honestly we are there for weather more than anything.

Good idea about doing one hard ticket event. US sounds like fun and less stress.

It makes me sad to cancel but there are some good options.

 

[tink2424]

Agreed, though I'll say, having worked on the front lines as a CM, I sympathize with them. It's hard enough to enforce some of the rules (like the smoking ban) just due to sheer lack of numbers, but also, it can be really intimidating. I worked in retail at ToT, Coaster and Fantasmic. Just mentioning that a guest was doing something they weren't supposed to would often result in said guest flat GOING OFF on you, claiming you were the one in the wrong, etc etc. Of course you can get security involved, or a manager, but often by the time you track them down (most CMs don't have radios or anything) the guest is long gone.

One time I was selling glowy merch during the F! pre-show. I was 19 yrs old and carrying a 10lb tray around my neck. Clearly, was on the lowest rung of the "power ladder" haha. F! got rained out and cancelled. A guest came up to me and DEMANDED they get a full refund on their park admission bc they didn't get to see F!. I politely smiled, apologized for the show getting canceled, explained to them that being an outside show, it is weather dependent, and said that they could always stop at guest relations on the way out if they have further concerns. They responded by GOING OFF on me for 5 minutes about how it was terrible service, they deserve compensation, etc.etc.

Point being, those kind of interactions really make many CMs gun shy and having been in their shoes, hard to blame em.

I hear you. This is where the managers and security need to be available and supportive of the CMs. I used to work at Nordstrom in customer service and would see all types come through and at my level I really couldn't do much for them. I needed to get management involved to solve the issue as I didn't have the authority.

My biggest issue is when guests are being aggressive, smoking where they shouldn't, jumping lines, running at rope drop, or really anything that can affect guest safety. That is where that behavior needs severe remediation and that isn't the front line CMs job to handle that.

The main issue is that sometimes even the best people can get caught up in herd mentality and if people are getting away with bad behavior then more people will feel like they have to do the same things in order to get what they want. This is why it is a slippery slope if Disney doesn't hold people accountable for their behavior.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

The bottom line with all this is money. Disney doesn't want to spend the money it takes to put enough actual trained security personnel at every ride and every corner to enforce the rules and procedures. CM are trained but they aren't trained for possible physical altercation and therefore part of their training is to actually avoid it. It would not be feasible to properly train all the CM's for physical altercation and that is the type of training they would need if they were to actually force people out of the lines or out of the park for breaking the rules. This would require actual security guard type personnel and Disney isn't going to spend the money for it. But there could absolutely be a happy medium if Disney would just spend a little extra money and better train their CM's and make sure the cm is doing their job, cause I've seen several times where the cm was almost afraid and didn't really say anything at all. But ive also seen some really good cm's that have threatened to shut a ride down or remove a specific guest if they didn't straighten up. It also wouldn't hurt for Disney to do a better job recognizing who is better made for a cm and who is not.

Utter nonsense. First point about where guests stay, how do they know where you are staying?

Yes, there are some nationalities who do behave badly, but, it is the culture of their country, go to Disneyland Paris to really experience that (I'm not even talking about the French)

The most badly behaved are entitled parents of entitled kids and they tend to be American, although, not exclusively so. They are the ones who think that Disney is about the kids, especially their kids. They are the ones racing around pushing strollers at breakneck speed, carrying huge strollers even for kids that are way too old to be in strollers. I was killing myself laughing at the players in DHS Sunset Boulevard sitting in director chairs making comments about kids who were far too old being pushed around in strollers ('Get A Job!!!')

Or, controversial here, the people who hire scooters and have never used one before and nearly cause accidents or see it as means to get them and their families onto the bus first even if they are the last to turn up. I swear, one morning at the entrance there were more people in scooters than not and they race around at breakneck speed too, I don't know how many times I was nearly hit by people thinking they were Dale Earnhardt, especially at night or in crowded areas

Let's be honest, it's nothing to do with nationality or money, it's to do with entitlement. It's the 'the rules don't count for me' attitude to people who smoke, bring in selfie sticks or those carts that are now supposedly banned.

If Disney protected their CMs with a zero tolerance policy towards bad behaviour and aggression towards the CMs then that would be a step towards stopping the bad behaviour. A CM tells a smoker to go to the designated area and the guest gets stroppy, call security immediately, remove the person and cancel their tickets for the rest of their trip. Better still, do it just for being caught smoking in the parks, the rules are clear, no excuses. All bad behaviour should be punished, CMs should not be afraid of what will happen if a guest loses it, they should know they will get back up and it should definitely not be rewarded, but, that is exactly what entitlement is; being rewarded for bad behaviour. Time to enforce the rules and reward those who play by them by letting them have a peaceful trip.

I've worked in retail and food services my entire life. I've gone from working the registers and stocking shelves to managing fine dining restaurants. The same people who have hissy fits over the coupon not working because it's expired are the same people who have hissy fits because their refills aren't out at the exacta second the first drink is empty, and they are the exact same people who throw down at the CMs when the tea cup they wanted is already taken or if they don't get front of the line access because their cupcake had less frosting than the person next to them. Those people only care about themselves, and what affects them/what they can get.

CMs are hired to handle rides or sell pretzels or stop/start rides, not to be security. A lot of people can handle the talking to people in the context of their jobs, as long as it's all good, but the minute someone turns hostile or someone is breaking a rule and they have to stop them, it's not something they can handle. There is nothing wrong with that, but they should be in position to be able to call for assistance, and security should come and back up the CMs. Leads/mgmt should back security and the CMs. But they don't. It's all about image and the bottom line for Disney.

 

[tink2424]

My DD#2 has worked as a CM for DLR 3 times. Once in retail (left personal issues); once as a ticket taker (left because of toxic co-workers and guests); and once as a CM in Batuu (those fancy light sticks; left last week because of lack of hours/issues with management).

When she was there, in both retail and tickets, she was spit on, cussed out, yelled at, etc. Her leads did nothing. She would follow the policies; the guests would have a meltdown; the leads would give in (to preserve that 'Disney magic', I guess). At Batuu, she was screamed at by people who couldn't get in to build those fancy light sticks, because the spots were full. She had one woman smack her arm (left a nasty bruise) because she couldn't bring her whole family (6 people) in with one builder (there is just not space for that); the woman got free glow sticks for her whole family.

Some people think that because they spend the $$, that they are entitled to whatever they want. Disney lets that feeling continue, because they want that $$, and don't want to have bad 'press'. Until Disney addresses these issues...the smoking in the parks, the abuse of the CMs...it will continue to get worse and worse.

We were at Busch Gardens, Tampa, a few months ago. Some woman was screaming at the GS people because something didn't apply on her tickets correctly (just what we overheard while standing in line). A guy came over to the woman (I'm guessing a manager type, from their outfit) and told her that she needed to calm down or she wouldn't be allowed to enter the park. At Disney, they would have handed her several unlimited FPs, apologized and walked her through the gates.

I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! What is tolerated will continue to get worse. And you are right that they actually encourage the bad behavior with rewards. This may ultimately be something that could really tarnish the Disney brand.

 

[LizzyS]

It not so much of losing our "personal space" as it is the way someone else just takes it. It doesn't matter what race or nationality you are, there is one thing we all should have and that is common courtesy. If there was room in front of someone and I wanted to take it, I would be polite about it and treat them with respect. Even with a language barrier I have had foreigners get my attention and use their hands to point and ask about moving somewhere and then give me a hi/thank u sign. So it has nothing to do with personal space but how people chose to try and take it.

I understand what you're saying, but for me personally, I have issues with people coming up *behind* me and feeling like they're right on top of me, so for me, it's usually not a squeezing in front of me situation. You are absolutely correct about manners when doing so, however.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

CMs are hired to handle rides or sell pretzels or stop/start rides, not to be security. A lot of people can handle the talking to people in the context of their jobs, as long as it's all good, but the minute someone turns hostile or someone is breaking a rule and they have to stop them, it's not something they can handle. There is nothing wrong with that, but they should be in position to be able to call for assistance, and security should come and back up the CMs. Leads/mgmt should back security and the CMs. But they don't. It's all about image and the bottom line for Disney.

I will say I could handle quite a bit of stuff in my retail days and on the phone days where you def. got yelled at there. However, everyone has their point where it's a no go. I also think job fatigue and on the other end of the spectrum job investment can impact where that point is it.

I'm not a CM but I would guess that de-escalation is part of their job description (if not oops for suggesting it). If it is then you'll have to be able to handle to a certain extent (once it becomes verbally too aggressive or even a hint of physical security should be called instead IMO). That said Disney has for the most part decided it's far easier to throw FPs someone's way and other routes than it is to get involved in every little incident. That's not any different than my supervisor when I was at the insurance company call center who said "I do not under any circumstances want to get an escalation call for a $10.00 late fee, just waive the darn fee no questions asked and move on". Well that certainly doesn't help curb the repeat offenders now does it?

 

[dreynolds1982]

I recently cancelled our package. I found a nice off site resort for much less than a moderate. We drive so don’t want/ use Disney buses.

The $$$$ for non hopper tickets where I had to choose dates drove me mad. Having to do logistical gymnastics to plan a vacation is not my idea of fun.

Resort parking fees, crowds, loss of night time parade, early closures for paid events, short staff so even with low crowds you wait. At a certain point I had to say this isn’t worth it.

I am considering the mid day magic tickets. It would cost significantly less. Or we are going to US. Right now I am leaning towards US.

UO is a blast. I really do enjoy it. But don't expect to spend much less at UO. If you factor in Express Pass (which I highly recommend if you want to get everything done) it can actually be a good bit more expensive than Disney per day (in some cases the EP can cost almost as much as the ticket itself!). The good thing about EP is you don't have to do all the scheduling, etc. that you do with FP+. You just pay for it and go.

I would encourage anyone who has never been to UO before to give it a shot. They Harry Potter stuff especially is VERY well done and the parks in general are a blast. They are thrill-ride heavy, so it may not be ideal for younger kids, but it is fun. To me tho, UO will always been something to add on to a Disney trip, rather than replace it. Even with all they've added, to me it just doesn't feel like more than a 2 day trip (one for each park, not including ). Just my opinion though!

 

[SaintsManiac]

Really enjoyed the podcast today. It's quite relevant to this thread and I recommend that everyone give it a listen/watch.

 

[dreynolds1982]

That said Disney has for the most part decided it's far easier to throw FPs someone's way and other routes than it is to get involved in every little incident. That's not any different than my supervisor when I was at the insurance company call center who said "I do not under any circumstances want to get an escalation call for a $10.00 late fee, just waive the darn fee no questions asked and move on". Well that certainly doesn't help curb the repeat offenders now does it?

Agree with this 100%. IMO this goes way back to my CM days (2002). Disney has always been about "guest recovery" which is a good policy to have, but people know it and take advantage for sure. It has gotten worse and worse over the years too. Though I will say you see this a lot in general in the service industry now, not just at Disney. People know that they just complain about something and get rewarded for it. It's pretty sad and frustrating IMO.

 

[fatmanatee]

Most smokers assume because they are outside, they can smoke wherever they'd like, especially non-Americans.

Im not sure this is the case. Give smokers a nearby option where they can smoke, and they’ll be more likely to obey the rules, since it’s easier to get to the smoking areas. Tell smokers that they have to leave the park to get their fix and they might just give up and smoke wherever and dare CMs to call them out on it.

That’s what seems to be happening here. I can’t recall ever seeing someone smoke in a non smoking area at Disney but I’m curious if Ill see this next time I go.