What Would You Do In This Situation?

[epcotfreak]

We just returned from 6 days at WDW, staying at POR. While there, I witnessed the following situation while on the bus from POR to DHS. How would you have handled it?

We boarded the bus at the north depot in POR and found seats in the back of the bus. The bus then stopped at the east and south depot at POR before going to POFQ to pick up more people. By the time we left the south depot at POR, the bus was packed full -- all seats and even the aisles were full. When we stopped at POFQ, there were two "disabled" people in electric scooters that demanded to get on, even though there was no room for them. I want to reserve my judgement of them, but it seemed to me that these two people were perfectly fine and had the scooters to be able to take advantage of the system at WDW and skip most lines, but I have nothing to base that on other than my observations. They may very well have been disabled, but I seriously doubt it. I understand that the seats near the rear exit fold up to accomodate wheel chairs and electric scooters and there are even signs that say something to the effect of "these seats are given priority to the elderly and disabled". Well, they demanded to get on our bus and that the people already on should have to get off and wait since they were "disabled". When a few people refused to get off, they started claiming that it was a violation of the American with Disabilities Act and they were going to sue.

So, should they have been allowed to board just because they were "disabled" and had their electric scooters and kicked several others off, or should they have been forced to stay and wait on an open bus and actually have to wait their turn for once? Would you have willingly given up your seat for them? I was in the back of the bus, but had I been one of the people invovled in the "scuffle", I would have refused. These two ultimately won and got on the bus, kicking off at least 10 people, maybe more. I think they should have been forced to wait for an open bus. But that's just me.

 

[mrsv98]

We just returned from 6 days at WDW, staying at POR. While there, I witnessed the following situation while on the bus from POR to DHS. How would you have handled it?

We boarded the bus at the north depot in POR and found seats in the back of the bus. The bus then stopped at the east and south depot at POR before going to POFQ to pick up more people. By the time we left the south depot at POR, the bus was packed full -- all seats and even the aisles were full. When we stopped at POFQ, there were two "disabled" people in electric scooters that demanded to get on, even though there was no room for them. I want to reserve my judgement of them, but it seemed to me that these two people were perfectly fine and had the scooters to be able to take advantage of the system at WDW and skip most lines, but I have nothing to base that on other than my observations. They may very well have been disabled, but I seriously doubt it. I understand that the seats near the rear exit fold up to accomodate wheel chairs and electric scooters and there are even signs that say something to the effect of "these seats are given priority to the elderly and disabled". Well, they demanded to get on our bus and that the people already on should have to get off and wait since they were "disabled". When a few people refused to get off, they started claiming that it was a violation of the American with Disabilities Act and they were going to sue.

So, should they have been allowed to board just because they were "disabled" and had their electric scooters and kicked several others off, or should they have been forced to stay and wait on an open bus and actually have to wait their turn for once? Would you have willingly given up your seat for them? I was in the back of the bus, but had I been one of the people invovled in the "scuffle", I would have refused. These two ultimately won and got on the bus, kicking off at least 10 people, maybe more. I think they should have been forced to wait for an open bus. But that's just me.

Disabled should not equal rude! The simple solution would have been for the bus driver to call for another bus to come immediately. Just because you are on a scooter doesn't mean you get to push to the front.

I would have probably refused to get off. My DDad is legally blind and he would NEVER think about pushing to the front simply because he is "legally entitled". Their attitudes are what would have really put me off, I don't care how "disabled" you are, you should be polite!

 

[blessedby3]

I think they should have had to wait for another bus. Yours was full and loaded with people with no room for them. I cant believe they made people get off to load 2 scooters with rude people. If it were an empty bus or a bus with room, then let them on...but since it was an already full bus they should have to wait for the next one...just like any able bodied person would have to do also.

 

[disneyccc]

I totally agree with you and I would have never gotten off the bus! It seems to me like all they were doing was taking advantage of the system.

 

[lsulindy]

Disabled accommodations mean that there are accommodations in place for you. Not that you never ever have to wait and you take precedence over others.

If you want this to be a true discussion of the situation. I'd remove the part in the original post about whether you think these people were truly disabled are not. The discussion is going to go downhill fast on that one.

 

[BYC]

My opinion on this may not be popular, but I think they should have had to wait for the next bus. The ADA states that there must be facilities available for the disabled, but not necessarily on demand. It is like the handicap bathroom stall at a public bathroom. It is there so that a handicapped person can easily use the toilet, but it is not exclusively for handicapped people. anyone can use it, and when someone with a wheelchair comes in to use the bathroom, they wait for it to be available. I think it is the same with the buses. The buses must comply, and be able to accommodate, but not on demand. As far as whether or not someone is really disabled is not for us to decide, even if we know in our hearts they are not. Many disabilities are not visible.

 

[angierae]

You're going to get flamed for assuming they weren't disabled. There's no way to know by looking, and people are going to be offended.

On the other hand, there's still no reason to be rude, and I'm pretty sure the ADA doesn't say you can insist people get off the bus for them.

 

[epcotfreak]

Disabled accommodations mean that there are accommodations in place for you. Not that you never ever have to wait and you take precedence over others.

If you want this to be a true discussion of the situation. I'd remove the part in the original post about whether you think these people were truly disabled are not. The discussion is going to go downhill fast on that one.

I won't be revising my statement. If you would have seen these two, you would have thought the same thing, as did most people on the bus. I didn't say that to flamebait or to cause a rucus, instead just making an observation of a younger couple taking advantage of the system.

 

[Alsobrook]

If there are people seated in the priority seating area, the operator of the bus is technically required to ask those people to move - ONCE THE HANDICAP PERSON BOARDS. The driver is not required to force people to move, and cannot, in fact, force people to move. No driver or operator is required to ask people to get off of the bus in order to allow a special needs individual to board.

If the handicap person cannot board the bus because it is too full, they are not being discriminated against because the ADA requires that they have the same opportunity, not that they have special privileges. They have the same opportunity to board the bus as anyone else at the bus stop when the bus is full.... and that would be zero opportunity.

This also goes for "public transportation."

As for whether the individuals were or were not really handicapped.... it's irrelevant to the issue. Assume they are, and the rules above then apply.

Nothing to see here.

 

[Alsobrook]

I won't be revising my statement. If you would have seen these two, you would have thought the same thing, as did most people on the bus. I didn't say that to flamebait or to cause a rucus, instead just making an observation of a younger couple taking advantage of the system.

I think the correct way to look at it is to first understand the system, then apply the facts. Hence, in my other post... it's irrelevant whether they were or were not disabled. The question can be answered without making that determination.

If you want to out there and do some scooter tipping to make doubly sure, have at it, but that would open up another can of worms altogether.

 

[Midnyghtchilde]

I won't be revising my statement. If you would have seen these two, you would have thought the same thing, as did most people on the bus. I didn't say that to flamebait or to cause a rucus, instead just making an observation of a younger couple taking advantage of the system.

I know its very hard not to think that way when you see such things, but it stinks of able-ism. Invisible disabilities do exist and as an outsider its impossible for you to make the judgement that they were or were not "deserving" of their scooters.

As has been pointing out, your statement is inflammatory and asking to start drama

Anyways, they should have had to wait for another bus. I am surprised your drive did not handle this - I have seen drivers go ask people in scooters what park they're waiting for, and put in a call for a second bus if they were full and had no room for the scooter. Then the driver just states politely that he is full and another bus is on its way and closes the doors. Some people are just rude and there isn't much that can be done about it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If standing were an option, I'd stand and offer my seat. Get of the bus so I can wait & they don't have to? No @#$%ing way.

 

[minnie mum]

I refuse to comment on the occupants of the ECVs need for the scooters other than to say that age has NOTHING to do with it, and non-visible handicaps are common. The OPs comments on this are presumptuous and deserve flaming. Moving on: I will also say that I think their demands were completely out of line. The physically handicapped can be rude and obnoxious just like the able bodied.

And I may get flamed for this as well, but what the heck was the matter with the driver?? All he had to do was say that the bus had no room for them and that he would call for another bus to come for them. He wouldn't have been violating the ADA by doing that. Then close the doors and move on. Could have avoided the whole situation, or a lot of it, that way. JMO

 

[WTDing]

Who "made" the people get off the bus? Did the driver or a Disney rep. order people to leave? Or were people simply guilted into it.

As a PP said I think the driver should simply have stated that the bus was full and for safety reasons no one else could board and remind that another bus would be along momentarily.

BTW what time of day was this? I always thought the buses went to POFQ first.

 

[kadesha]

First of all, I'm not flaming you for your observation, but my husband is young, doesn't appear to have anything wrong with him, and full of life. However, he needs an ECV. You can't tell by looking if someone actually has a disability.

Next, I wouldn't have got off the bus for them if the bus was full. If I had been standing at that bus stop with my husband in an ECV I would have waited for another bus. Not only was there not room for an ECV, but there probably wasn't even much room for able-bodied people if the bus was that crowded.

 

[smitch425]

I would have stayed on the bus. I don't deal well with "rude" and "feeling entitled" people. I don't care if they are disabled or not. Rude is rude and they are no more important than anyone on the bus. I can get OP's feeling that they may have been taking advantage, but there really is no way to really know unless you hear them actually admit it. I have had a few incidents where someone in a EVC flat out said they didn't really need one (they didn't know I could hear them), so it does happen. It's sad and pathetic. The driver should have called for an empy bus and kept on driving.

 

[tzolkin]

If there are people seated in the priority seating area, the operator of the bus is technically required to ask those people to move - ONCE THE HANDICAP PERSON BOARDS. The driver is not required to force people to move, and cannot, in fact, force people to move. No driver or operator is required to ask people to get off of the bus in order to allow a special needs individual to board.

If the handicap person cannot board the bus because it is too full, they are not being discriminated against because the ADA requires that they have the same opportunity, not that they have special privileges. They have the same opportunity to board the bus as anyone else at the bus stop when the bus is full.... and that would be zero opportunity.

.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm sure the driver was just not prepared for their rudeness/making a scene/threatening to sue so he just tried to smooth over the situation without really thinking. He certainly could not have been thinking if he made people get off the bus. Normally if the bus is full, they just skip the rest of the stops and head to their destination. Obviously drivers are not required to stop for people in scooters and kick off passengers already on board, so he should have known that this was not the right thing to do.

 

[epcotfreak]

Who "made" the people get off the bus? Did the driver or a Disney rep. order people to leave? Or were people simply guilted into it.

As a PP said I think the driver should simply have stated that the bus was full and for safety reasons no one else could board and remind that another bus would be along momentarily.

BTW what time of day was this? I always thought the buses went to POFQ first.

The driver basically stayed out of it for the most part from what I could see. The people that got off were basically bullied and guilted into getting off by the people in the electric carts. I guess to preserve the peace, they caved and got off.

It was about 5 or 6 pm when this happened. As far as the bus routes are concerned, there seemd to be no rhyme or reason as to how they ran. It seemed to be pretty random. Sometimes they'd stop at the south depot first at POR and sometimes at the west depot first. Sometimes they'd consolidate a bus run and go to both POR and POFQ and sometimes not. You never really knew the route you were going to take because it always seemed to be different each time.

 

[zeferjen]

Since you are asking what I would do, the answer is nothing. I would have sat there and ignored the whole show. If someone had asked me to get up, I would have simply said, "Sorry, no."

I believe that people have to wait their turn, regardless of whether they are on the ECV or wheelchair. I also think that is consistent with Disney's policy, wherever possible.

 

[DeaverTex]

I see no reason why anyone should have had to get off the bus to accommodate people using scooters. Rude is rude.

And I guess I have a weird mind, but it occurred to me to wonder how two people on scooters won a scuffle with 10 mobile and perfectly able folks? Those must have been two really BAD scooters!