What would you have done?

[leahgoogle]

Language choice matters.

Reading comprehension matters too.

 

[dcassetta]

If the adult staff didn't feel like it was safe for them to work, then that is their right to not come back. The kids should not have been punished for that.

Reading comprehension matters too.

Please tell me what I am not comprehending here. You said adults made choices that punished kids.

 

[leahgoogle]

Please tell me what I am not comprehending here. You said adults made choices that punished kids.

You said, "No one was trying to punish (or purposely hurt) kids." I repeatedly told you that I did not think the kids were purposely hurt or punished and you don't seem to be comprehending this statement.

 

[dcassetta]

If the adult staff didn't feel like it was safe for them to work, then that is their right to not come back. The kids should not have been punished for that.

Adults making choices leading to kids being punished. How is this not purposeful?

 

[leahgoogle]

Adults making choices leading to kids being punished. How is this not purposeful?

In my district, adults that didn't or couldn't come back to work were replaced. We still went back to in-person class. This didn't punish the kids.

 

[dcassetta]

In my district, adults that didn't or couldn't come back to work were replaced. We still went back to in-person class. This didn't punish the kids.

Still purposeful. But, I am done. Clearly, my experience of punishment throughout my life was just random and no one was responsible.

 

[leahgoogle]

Still purposeful. But, I am done. Clearly, my experience of punishment throughout my life was just random and no one was responsible.

Sometimes punishment is a biproduct of a decision that is made for other reasons. The schools weren't kept closed specifically to punish kids (actually, many believed they were protecting the kids), but that is what ended up happening. That's the best I can describe it.

 

[dcassetta]

If only you had started with this...

 

[leahgoogle]

If only you had started with this...

Lol, sorry

 

[tink2424]

At the end of the day we had the data from other countries not shutting down schools and not having increased rates of transmission. You can claim that we didn't know in September of 2020 and this is all hindsight but the facts are the facts even if you don't agree with them.

And yes, there are some rare kids that did better during the pandemic but it is clear the vast majority did not and that a not small group were forever harmed. These are kids that don't have internet at home, don't have parents that can watch over them and ensure work is done, don't have access to lunch and a host of other don'ts. It is easy for people who can afford to got to Disney to not think about those kids.

 

[dcassetta]

At the end of the day we had the data from other countries not shutting down schools and not having increased rates of transmission. You can claim that we didn't know in September of 2020 and this is all hindsight but the facts are the facts even if you don't agree with them.

And yes, there are some rare kids that did better during the pandemic but it is clear the vast majority did not and that a not small group were forever harmed. These are kids that don't have internet at home, don't have parents that can watch over them and ensure work is done, don't have access to lunch and a host of other don'ts. It is easy for people who can afford to got to Disney to not think about those kids.

Who is "we"? The earliest comprehensive study of data gathered from around the world and focused directly on school transmission was published by the NIH in Dec 2020.

 

[tink2424]

Who is "we"? The earliest comprehensive study of data gathered from around the world and focused directly on school transmission was published by the NIH in Dec 2020.

"We" is the whole world. Other countries in Europe & even in Asia never shut their schools. It was known by the summer of 2020 that school transmission was very low. We also had catholic schools and private schools in the US that didn't shut down other than in the very beginning. So yes, "We" as in the whole world knew.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

At the end of the day we had the data from other countries not shutting down schools and not having increased rates of transmission. You can claim that we didn't know in September of 2020 and this is all hindsight but the facts are the facts even if you don't agree with them.

And yes, there are some rare kids that did better during the pandemic but it is clear the vast majority did not and that a not small group were forever harmed. These are kids that don't have internet at home, don't have parents that can watch over them and ensure work is done, don't have access to lunch and a host of other don'ts. It is easy for people who can afford to got to Disney to not think about those kids.

You know it's possible to be comfortable and satisfied with the school shutdowns and government approach AND feel for the kids who suffered.

The kids that you have described above suffer and have had hardships their whole lives, not just during the shutdown. I hope you felt as passionate about these kids, BEFORE Covid as well.

I can afford to go to Disney (just got back from an almost 3-week trip and am going again in January for 2 weeks) and I have NEVER forgotten about the less fortunate and that was longggggg before 2020! I spend time every week helping in several areas to make life better for kids that haven't always gotten a fair shake in life.

The same kids that you're talking about that don't have internet, don't have parents that can watch over them and a host of other don't, STILL live like that!

Throughout history kids have suffered terribly from events that occurred around them. I'm not sure the Covid response is say, any worse that any number of tragedies that befall children; wars (2 going on right now, can you imagine how those kids are suffering) storms and fires that level schools, school shootings, the list goes on and on. Life can be tough on kids.

I would suggest to the folks on this thread that continue to wring their hands, debate and spend time behind their keyboard pointing out what they perceive to be questionable decisions 3 years ago, how about doing something NOW to help make kids' lives better.

 

[sam_gordon]

"We" is the whole world. Other countries in Europe & even in Asia never shut their schools. It was known by the summer of 2020 that school transmission was very low. We also had catholic schools and private schools in the US that didn't shut down other than in the very beginning. So yes, "We" as in the whole world knew.

Do schools in Europe and Asia have the same number of students in classrooms? Pretty sure catholic schools and private schools have fewer students. Fewer people = less chance of the virus spreading. Not sure you're comparing apples to apples. Did they do other things differently?

 

[dcassetta]

"We" is the whole world. Other countries in Europe & even in Asia never shut their schools. It was known by the summer of 2020 that school transmission was very low. We also had catholic schools and private schools in the US that didn't shut down other than in the very beginning. So yes, "We" as in the whole world knew.

How did the NIH and CDC manage to miss this? The CDC stated that fall that they could not conclusively conclude data about transmission because so few children were being tested or contact traced.

I would really like to see a legitimate peer-reviewed source that shows we all knew all schools would be safe.

Managing one independent school where you can make individual decisions is a much different process than managing a whole district.

As I stated earlier, could some decisions have been different and even better? Of course. However, this seeming belief that school leaders purposely made decisions that led to intentional harm to kids is just incredible to me. I guess it goes along with some of the current attacks on schools. Too many people today seem to think schools are trying to harm kids. What I see is people doing the best they can to help every kid under some incredibly challenging circumstances.

 

[tink2424]

You know it's possible to be comfortable and satisfied with the school shutdowns and government approach AND feel for the kids who suffered.

The kids that you have described above suffer and have had hardships their whole lives, not just during the shutdown. I hope you felt as passionate about these kids, BEFORE Covid as well.

I can afford to go to Disney (just got back from an almost 3-week trip and am going again in January for 2 weeks) and I have NEVER forgotten about the less fortunate and that was longggggg before 2020! I spend time every week helping in several areas to make life better for kids that haven't always gotten a fair shake in life.

The same kids that you're talking about that don't have internet, don't have parents that can watch over them and a host of other don't, STILL live like that!

Throughout history kids have suffered terribly from events that occurred around them. I'm not sure the Covid response is say, any worse that any number of tragedies that befall children; wars (2 going on right now, can you imagine how those kids are suffering) storms and fires that level schools, school shootings, the list goes on and on. Life can be tough on kids.

I would suggest to the folks on this thread that continue to wring their hands, debate and spend time behind their keyboard pointing out what they perceive to be questionable decisions 3 years ago, how about doing something NOW to help make kids' lives better.

You are definitely correct about these kids then and now. However I was specifically referring to school closures and those posters who claimed it wasn't bad for most kids. There are a LOT of kids it was bad for and those "don't" kids certainly have it the worst. And lets be real those kids were more at risk for a lot of other things besides COVID as they were very low risk to get sick or have any bad outcome. Your statement and my statement can both be true.

 

[tink2424]

Do schools in Europe and Asia have the same number of students in classrooms? Pretty sure catholic schools and private schools have fewer students. Fewer people = less chance of the virus spreading. Not sure you're comparing apples to apples. Did they do other things differently?

Yes, I'm sure they have similar class sizes but again I don't believe it has been show that any class size was more conducive to spread than others.

Also, the US government gave a lot of money to schools for COVID that they could use. One thing that schools could have done (and I argue should have done) was to add UV-C lights to rooms to help clean the air. They have been shown to reduce spread of bacteria and viruses and can easily be added to a classroom just put on a shelf and plugged in. So there were more options even beyond just going back.

 

[tink2424]

How did the NIH and CDC manage to miss this? The CDC stated that fall that they could not conclusively conclude data about transmission because so few children were being tested or contact traced.

I would really like to see a legitimate peer-reviewed source that shows we all knew all schools would be safe.

Managing one independent school where you can make individual decisions is a much different process than managing a whole district.

As I stated earlier, could some decisions have been different and even better? Of course. However, this seeming belief that school leaders purposely made decisions that led to intentional harm to kids is just incredible to me. I guess it goes along with some of the current attacks on schools. Too many people today seem to think schools are trying to harm kids. What I see is people doing the best they can to help every kid under some incredibly challenging circumstances.

Forgive me but the CDC lost ALL credibility when it comes to the pandemic. I think it has been proven that they lied and covered up what they did know and when.

Overall I hope that schools can take the lessons from this pandemic and make better decisions in the future but also see what changes they can make now. We know that the flu & RSV and all sorts of other diseases circulate amongst students every year. Can we improve ventilation, hand washing or UV-C lighting in classrooms to decrease the spread? I don't have all the answers but I wish we working towards something for the schools even now.