What's safe?

[soniam]

Not trying to stir up anything. However, I see a lot of people saying this or that isn't safe, or that they won't cruise until it's safe. What are you defining as "safe"? I am assuming that we will never be completely free of this in probably my lifetime. I also don't think we will have a working, tested vaccine until late 2021, if ever. However, I'm not sure that I think everything is "unsafe", and I absolutely know that nothing was really "safe" before this either. I am not advocating people go willy nilly. My state, Texas, is opening up stuff, but we won't be eating in restaurants or going to theaters anytime in the next few weeks, and probably not during May. I will still wear a mask when out and about, even though the governor overrode the local rule yesterday. None of my immediate family is high risk. I am just curious where everyone is coming from on this. I would like to understand other people's perspectives. Hope everyone stays healthy.

 

[spiders]

To me, if you can maintain your distance from other people then it's safe. It makes a lot more sense to open up retail than it does to open up hair salons.

I'm an essential worker. I'm going out one way or another. That doesn't mean I'll be joining the crowd going out to eat this week but I do think that slowly reopening is the way to go and you need to start somewhere. So, start and there are people who definitely want to go out so let them go and let's see what happens.

 

[MomOTwins]

I would say that nothing is safe, but it is a sliding scale. My mom has done nothing but go to the grocery store with a mask and she is obsessive about handwashing and she texted me last night that she has a fever of 103. She’s such a careful person—I am more upset about this than when I was sick with it since she is more high risk, but ahe couldn’t have done anything differently as she lives in a country that doesn’t have grocery delivery. I expect most of us will have gotten sick before this is all over. It is mostly now about trying to slow the pace of infections so hospitals can keep up.

 

[AgentMama]

Ideally for us it would be when there is a vaccine. Not sure how effective or how soon we'll have one. For now our family wants more information about this virus and whether or not there will be any immunity after infection. We have quite a few people in our family who have tested positive (who have followed CDC guidelines, practiced social distancing and have essentially stayed home) and I have a friend who may be reinfected (possible her retest negative was a false negative).

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

Not trying to stir up anything. However, I see a lot of people saying this or that isn't safe, or that they won't cruise until it's safe. What are you defining as "safe"? I am assuming that we will never be completely free of this in probably my lifetime. I also don't think we will have a working, tested vaccine until late 2021, if ever. However, I'm not sure that I think everything is "unsafe", and I absolutely know that nothing was really "safe" before this either. I am not advocating people go willy nilly. My state, Texas, is opening up stuff, but we won't be eating in restaurants or going to theaters anytime in the next few weeks, and probably not during May. I will still wear a mask when out and about, even though the governor overrode the local rule yesterday. None of my immediate family is high risk. I am just curious where everyone is coming from on this. I would like to understand other people's perspectives. Hope everyone stays healthy.

Since susceptibility to COVID's worst effects is based on the strength of one's immune system, my perspective is that my son and I are safer getting COVID in the spring or summer when we're most likely to be otherwise healthy, than to get it in the fall or winter when our immune systems have a higher chance of already being compromised by fighting off the flu, strep, or even just a nasty cold when we encounter COVID. So I'm not hesitating to go out now. We can't hide forever, and this isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[soniam]

Since susceptabikity to COVID's worst effects is based on the strength of one's immune system, my perspective is that my son and I are safer getting COVID in the spring or summer when we're most likely to be healthy, than to get it in the fall or winter when our immune systems have a higher chance ofbeing oompromised by fighting off the flu, strep, or even just a nasty cold. So I'm not hesitating to go out now. We can't hide forever, and this isn't going away anytime soon.

That's an interesting point of view. I figure that eventually my family will get it, but I'm not going to kiss any strangers right now However, the thought of getting it when your immune system is stronger isn't bad logic. Hopefully, this will all seem silly this time next year.

 

[spiders]

I will also add that I live in the greater Atlanta area. My county has actually done fairly well. There have been 8 deaths the last time I checked. Of the 8, 7/8 had underlying conditions with the 8th being listed as "unknown" - the youngest was about 65 and the oldest was 85...average age being 76. The life expectancy here is 81.

I'm not trying to downplay the severity of what is going on but the reality is that the more vulnerable are going to have to continue to exercise additional precautions than the less vulnerable. This is not going away anytime soon.

 

[gotomu212]

The not quite simple answer is I’m not sure what safe looks like yet for my family. I’m concerned that while most places have been staying home we still have over a million US cases and 57k deaths. So I want to see what happens once places open up and see what it does to case numbers, hospitalizations, and deaths along with better statistics for who is dying once it’s widespread. Once I see more complete numbers I can decide if the risk for me is high or low.

Specifically for cruising, I also want some real information on what happens when there is a confirmed case at sea. Will people be stuck in staterooms? Stuck at sea? Stuck in a quarantine off ship? Or free to carry on? Since a cruise also involves air travel for me I want to think about what happens if someone in our party does get it-even a mild case on travel. How would we get home if we clearly cannot fly with a sick person? Are we stuck in Florida for 3 weeks while they are positive/recovery or are we trying to rent a car and drive cross country with a slightly ill person? and is that a one in a thousand risk like any normal risk you might get sick on vacation or are 5% of passengers getting sick?

That’s some of my safety questions- I also want info on the cruising experience before I drop thousands on a cruise. If the experience is vastly different it may not be worth he cost even if safe.

 

[cgolf]

Simple answer is we plan to cruise next year as long as the government allows it. If you look up Influenza A, that many had this year, it is H1N1 which was somewhat big deal back in I believe 2009. Hopefully they will have a flu shot to protect against this, but it isn’t gonna go away, at least is not expected to. The original SARS virus did so maybe there is a small glimmer of hope. I refuse to live in fear, because these viruses are always out there and there is little we can do to protect ourselves. Flu shots are hit and miss depending on if they chose the right flu strains.

To answer the obvious comments, we are being very careful, grocery shop only as needed and consolidate to make one trip. Socially distance etc. The one thing not doing regularly is a mask, because they have changed their minds too often on it being a good thing. Basing my answer on the science, nothing more.

 

[bearzabout]

There is a chance that a treatment that shortens the length of illness from the virus and prevents the more dangerous complications will be discovered. Getting access to a new treatment or vaccine will take a lot of time since over 7 billion people will want it.

I think there will be a risk of being exposed for a long time and the only way to open things up is for the consumer to accept the risk and not expect a business to protect them. This probably will not happen so companies like cruise lines, may not be able to survive in this “new world”.

Masks should lower the chance that an infected person will disperse the virus over a large area so I will feel much better if everyone, including asymptomatic super spreaders, are wearing them.

 

[MrsInsG]

Interesting conversation; thank you for starting it. I am in agreement with Mainsail Minnie; staying home at this point (for otherwise healthy people) is starting to seem like a bad idea. That said, I don't know what is safe as all of this is new. I do know that I am not crazy about my daughter returning to dorm living in August, but I am comfortable returning to my classroom of 25-30 8th graders with rotating classes every hour. It's sort of like the famous quote about obscenity; I'll know acceptable risk when I see it.

 

[NKHarris329]

Honestly I don't know what 'safe' will look like right now. I fully expect an uptick in new cases as we relax the quarantine and start moving towards the new normal. Because of this, my family and I really don't plan on changing much about our day to day immediately. We will work from home as long as allowed, avoid stores as much as practical, and not eat in restaurants for some time. We have a few friends with a similar mindset that we will socialize with, but those friends that are going out and doing all the things.... We'll see them in a month. Travel? Not likely until fall at the earliest.

To consider us "fully safe" (minimal risk of COVID) likely means my family is vaccinated. We won't wait that long to rejoin society, but when we feel "safe enough" (mitigated risk of COVID) depends on what we see happen in the next month.

 

[TheBigErn]

Life isn't safe. Ever. Do what you think you need to do for your safety.

 

[Husker Mike]

Here's my take on what "safe" might look like:

• A vaccine that helps prevent me and my family from becoming seriously ill.
• A treatment that minimizes the impact on our health care system, and maybe even speeds recovery.
• For cruise lines, a look at social distancing of their crew quarters as well as on decks. This probably means that cruises cannot operate at full passenger capacity, as some of those interior rooms may need to become crew quarters.
• Travel policies that encourage people to not pop Tylenol and board the cruise when they think they are feeling ill for fear of throwing their money away. (So called "travel insurance" needs a complete overhaul because it failed miserably in this case.)
• Arrangements with governments that if an outbreak occurs, passengers are not stranded at sea.

Nothing is perfectly safe, but we should be able to expect to be reasonably safe. Based on what I know at this time, I suspect sanitation procedures on cruise ships are going to be sufficient to deal with Coronavirus; the fear isn't with the ship, it's with the people on board.

 

[wombat_5606]

Nothing is perfectly safe, but we should be able to expect to be reasonably safe. Based on what I know at this time, I suspect sanitation procedures on cruise ships are going to be sufficient to deal with Coronavirus; the fear isn't with the ship, it's with the people on board.

I like this paragraph very much.

 

[MomOTwins]

• Travel policies that encourage people to not pop Tylenol and board the cruise when they think they are feeling ill for fear of throwing their money away. (So called "travel insurance" needs a complete overhaul because it failed miserably in this case.

This 100%. I can't tell you how much this drives me completely up the wall.

 

[gotomu212]

Here's my take on what "safe" might look like:

• A vaccine that helps prevent me and my family from becoming seriously ill.
• A treatment that minimizes the impact on our health care system, and maybe even speeds recovery.
• For cruise lines, a look at social distancing of their crew quarters as well as on decks. This probably means that cruises cannot operate at full passenger capacity, as some of those interior rooms may need to become crew quarters.
• Travel policies that encourage people to not pop Tylenol and board the cruise when they think they are feeling ill for fear of throwing their money away. (So called "travel insurance" needs a complete overhaul because it failed miserably in this case.)
• Arrangements with governments that if an outbreak occurs, passengers are not stranded at sea.

Nothing is perfectly safe, but we should be able to expect to be reasonably safe. Based on what I know at this time, I suspect sanitation procedures on cruise ships are going to be sufficient to deal with Coronavirus; the fear isn't with the ship, it's with the people on board.

The insurance point is a big one, and I think all cruise lines are going to have to address refunds for denial of boarding. As long as Covid isnt covered under insurance, every cruiser could be at risk of showing up at port only to find they are asymptomatic without even knowing it and losing $10k. That’s a risk that I wouldn’t feel comfortable with. If they had insurance that would refund my entire party (some insurance only covers the sick person and who is going to say sorry Little Jimmy we‘ll see you in 7 days) and covered covid I’d feel better making such a huge investment.

I know you could always come down with some bug in the past, but the risk was a lot lower than now and there are a lot that don’t even know they are sick.

 

[MrsInsG]

This 100%. I can't tell you how much this drives me completely up the wall.

Me, too. However, it's not just the money, it's the disappointment at that point. No, no one should do it, yes, many will because they don't want to disappoint their traveling party. Think about it; you wake-up feeling a little off the day of your travel but you chalk it up to being anxious, not getting enough sleep, etc., so you get on your flight to MCO knowing you'll sleep better tonight because you'll be in Florida and your husband and kids are so excited about finally getting to cruise with Mickey! You wake up the next morning with a low-grade fever and again just feel "off." Your kids, however, a practically bouncing off the walls because today is THE day! Taking the Tylenol is the most expedient option because you want to feel better and because you don't want to disappoint the kids. Plus, you know you've had viruses before and always feel better after 48 hours, so what are you going to do? Cancel your vacation that the family is so excited for that you've been planning for like a military maneuver?

I try to understand where people are coming from and while I would like to say I would never engage in such tomfoolery... ehh... I might? I don't know. I really don't know what the answer is here.

 

[BelleWannabe4]

Since susceptibility to COVID's worst effects is based on the strength of one's immune system, my perspective is that my son and I are safer getting COVID in the spring or summer when we're most likely to be otherwise healthy, than to get it in the fall or winter when our immune systems have a higher chance of already being compromised by fighting off the flu, strep, or even just a nasty cold when we encounter COVID. So I'm not hesitating to go out now. We can't hide forever, and this isn't going away anytime soon.

I think the scariest part for me is that we have absolutely no idea if getting coronavirus makes you immune to getting it again. I have a friend who is in her late 20s and is a nurse and who now has coronavirus for the second time. She got sick in early March, had no symptoms at all for almost 6 weeks, and has since tested positive again. Either she got it twice or has been sick for over 8 weeks infecting others while asymptomatic. Scientists haven't been able to do enough testing to prove it one way or the other.

The other thing that worries me is that we have no idea what the long term effects might be. A family member in his mid-20s got sick in mid-March, was hospitalized and on a ventilator within 48 hours of feeling "off". He was not high risk - totally healthy, active newlywed. He did get off the ventilator and is doing much better, but the doctors have said his lungs are likely permanently damaged.

And then there's the studies of young adults having strokes even with mild coronavirus. Sure, it's only a small percentage of people but I just don't see that being worth it for me for a short amount of fun.

So, with that in mind, safe for me means having a widely spread vaccine or, at the very least, a treatment that doesn't involve a ventilator. Will I lock myself in my house until one comes? No. We'll go out when our state re-opens with our masks on to help protect those around us and be vigilant about hand washing. But will I get on airplane for leisure travel to go to a theme park filled with other people or essentially be locked on a ship with thousands who might be asymptomatic carriers? Nope. It's just not worth my life or the life of those around me who are high risk. Our travel plans for the summer are backcountry camping in Colorado with our pup instead.

 

[cmrdgrs]

I would say that nothing is safe, but it is a sliding scale. My mom has done nothing but go to the grocery store with a mask and she is obsessive about handwashing and she texted me last night that she has a fever of 103. She’s such a careful person—I am more upset about this than when I was sick with it since she is more high risk, but ahe couldn’t have done anything differently as she lives in a country that doesn’t have grocery delivery. I expect most of us will have gotten sick before this is all over. It is mostly now about trying to slow the pace of infections so hospitals can keep up.

So sorry to hear about your Mom. I hope she fully recovers. I agree with you, I think it is going to be very hard to not at some point contract this virus.

Back to the OP question - What's Safe? IMO, nothing is safe. All you can do is be diligent and hope you can avoid infection as long as possible.