Why so crowded?

[BridgetR3]

I think a lot of the crowd issues also has to do with the very limited hours for the parks. Pre-covid we would see park hours from 8 a.m. to midnight at MK most nights during busier times but now you are lucky to find times past 9 - 10 p.m. I think the longer hours allowed people to go to the parks at their favorite times as opposed to being in the parks all day.

 

[kylenne]

I've never heard of a resort discount being offered the two weeks that wrap Easter weekend or for July 4th.

In the couple of years leading up to the closures summer was dead, they even had free dining once.

 

[shoney]

Interesting that NE schools would have a week off right before spring break

Our spring break is 7 weeks away. Not close at all. It is always during Passover/Easter so changes each year.

 

[Timbud2]

Interesting that NE schools would have a week off right before spring break

Ny has that week off since at least the late 70s. Supposedly it started to save money on heating costs. This year spring break isn’t until the week after Easter so it’s not close at all.

 

[Alicenwonderment]

Two words; SKI WEEK. A lot of schools all over the country are giving kids a week off right about now.
Note that this is a 4-year-old article, re-published this week;
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/ski-week-schools-mid-winter-break-elitist-SF-CA-12638966.php

Yep, Mass Always have President's week off and usually NH has the next week off. This year because the last week went into March most of the week some districts in NH had the same vacation week as Mass.

 

[MrBlueBird]

Several reasons for the past week (I was there). A lot of schools up north were on vacation, week of President’s Day, runDisney event, mask mandate lifted, etc.

 

[HydroGuy]

I think a lot of the crowd issues also has to do with the very limited hours for the parks. Pre-covid we would see park hours from 8 a.m. to midnight at MK most nights during busier times but now you are lucky to find times past 9 - 10 p.m. I think the longer hours allowed people to go to the parks at their favorite times as opposed to being in the parks all day.

I agree and often observe that folks mean different things by "crowded". Here are two common definitions:

1. There are lots of people in the park and it is hard to move around especially with strollers and ECVs.
2. Lines for rides are long and one cannot go on as many rides.

In the past (pre-COVID) it may have been just as crowded as now (in the sense of #1) but if you were able to do smart touring you could avoid the #2-type crowds. This made it feel "less crowded" in the sense of #2 because you could get on a lot of rides.

"Smart touring" was pretty common knowledge around places like DIS:

• Maximize legacy FP
  • run around to the FP machines all day
  • "run with the bulls" at RD to TSM and Soarin', etc.
  • use of "late FPs" (remember that?) when FP windows were not enforced - that was huge!!!
• Maximize FP+
  • ride reservations 60 days in advance for onsite/30 days for offsite
• Arrive for rope drop and focus on rides for the first 2-3 hours
• Take afternoon breaks when parks were most crowded and it was hottest outside
• Stay until park closing when possible
• Avoid parks with morning EMH or park hop after maximizing morning EMH
• Use crowd calendars to choose which parks on which days
• Schedule down days from parks to rebuild energy so one could do all the previous
• And more depending on the age of your group

Now it appears one cannot get on as many rides with short lines. And folks have to pay for G+ and ILL$ to boot if they want the advantages formerly available thru FP/FP+. And the advantages are less e.g., only one LL ride per day while FP/FP+ rides per day were not limited.

Finally, in the legacy FP days one did not have to worry about IT malfunctions. Now if the Disney IT system messes up or the app malfunctions on your phone, the impact is much bigger on your day. This is stressful and folks feel like they have to screen shot everything to have proof.

Add all this together and even if the parks are just as crowded in the #1 sense, it makes it harder to do smart touring in the #2 sense. So folks say "parks are more crowded" and "it is awful and I will not go again anytime soon".

Are the parks more crowded now in the #1 sense? I cannot tell but the reddit link earlier in this thread says maybe they are not.

Are the parks more crowded now in the #2 sense? Yes, for sure, especially for those legacy FP and FP+ experts who stayed onsite and booked at the 60 day mark. Now it is harder to get on the same number of rides as before and you are forced to use Rope Drop and late night strategies to get on favorite rides.

I suspect other factors are at work (as mentioned by others in this thread) that make the #2-type crowds worse. Importantly are limited major shows that suck people out of line for rides for hours at a time, reduced park hours (although that seems to be changing in March) and understaffing of parks in general and rides in particular.

ETA:

I forgot to mention, but I understand that Disney's sweet spot for rides per day per guest is about 9. This is based (as I understand) on Disney surveys of guest satisfaction. If the average guest gets on 9 rides in a day, the average guest is satisfied. Thus with legacy FP, FP+ and now G+, Disney is trying to get the average guest on 9 rides. We around here are not average guests and we are not usually happy with 9 rides - especially if those rides are not headliners. I think in the old days it was pretty easy to get on 20 rides per day and repeat headliner rides.

 

[OwnedByRetrievers]

Maximize legacy FP

• run around to the FP machines all day
• "run with the bulls" at RD to TSM and Soarin', etc.
• use of "late FPs" (remember that?) when FP windows were not enforced - that was huge!!!

The good ol' Tour Guide Mike days. My kids hated me running around like a madwoman during the day and conveniently forgot that we waited in zero lines after our afternoon break (I'm assuming those are a thing of the past too?) but it worked like a charm.

Now imagine this being your first trip back since you last did that in 2007. That's us in May.

 

[MomOfDisneyPrincess]

Successful marketing of the 50th anniversary.

Yes, I was going to say that I keep seeing 50th anniversary ads on regular TV. I've only been watching old fashioned TV to get the weather forecast and school closings because our weather has been crazy lately. Anyway, seems like there is always a WDW ad every time I turn it on.

 

[MomOfDisneyPrincess]

I forgot to mention, but I understand that Disney's sweet spot for rider per day per guest is about 9. This is based (as I understand) on Disney surveys of guest satisfaction. If the average guest gets on 9 rides in a day, the average guest is satisfied. Thus with legacy FP, FP+ and now G+, Disney is trying to get the average guest on 9 rides. We around here are not average guests and we are not usually happy with 9 rides - especially if those rides are not headliners. I think in the old days it was pretty easy to get on 20 rides per day and repeat headliner rides.

Wow! How long are your days? I'd be thrilled to get 9 rides into a day, but my days are only around 8 hours and I'm pooped. I am very hesitant to plan any more trips fearing that we would only get on 3 rides a day and that is definitely not worth it.

 

[HydroGuy]

Wow! How long are your days? I'd be thrilled to get 9 rides into a day, but my days are only around 8 hours and I'm pooped. I am very hesitant to plan any more trips fearing that we would only get on 3 rides a day and that is definitely not worth it.

For 20 rides? Usually 10-11 hours in the park but with arrival at rope drop and focus on rides for first 2-3 hours and high use of FP. That number also depends on the park. A morning in MK focused on short FantasyLand rides lets you get in a lot of rides. AK has less rides and the ones they have take longer to ride so probably less rides than 20 at AK. DHS has a higher percentage of headliners than other parks so also likely less than 20.

ETA: With G+ and ILL$ I suspect this will go down substantially due to disallowance of repeat rides.

ETA2: And need to dedicate RD time to headliners vs. faster, lower priority rides (e.g., Astro Orbiter, Tea Cups, Carrousel))

 

[disneycat321]

Disneyland-ers who wanted a less restrictive experience than going to DL right now

DLR’s experience isn’t more restrictive than WDW right now, and they’re showing similar high crowds as a result. There aren’t masks required there, either.

I really agree that there’s still a lot of pent up demand for travel/Disney trips. This past week at DLR, I saw more obvious first timers (wearing the buttons and everything) and people who aren’t familiar with DLR than I’ve seen in years. I think a lot of people are just desperate to go anywhere.

 

[bumbershoot]

They just finished a festival in Epcot.
Presidents’ Day week (or two depending on when you want to take vacation).
Princess runs, which also brought in yoga on Thursday morning so you need to get in on Wednesday (or Monday late at night for me).

A variety of winter breaks and very early spring breaks; remember that we are still in winter, and spring doesn’t actually start until later March.

All sorts of things bringing us in!
Except that I’m not in the parks bc family doesn’t want to

QUOTE="tigger2002, post: 63789949, member: 34711"]
too many season pass holders (looking at you Florida residents),
[/QUOTE]

The FL residents I know are so angry at how expensive their passes all are that they refuse to buy passes.

I remember all the February 2020 precovid posts about the crowds and very similar posts to now.

Yep.
Princess and President’s weeks are always around.

Interesting that NE schools would have a week off right before spring break

If a school is having a break now they likely have a later spring break.

 

[flipflopmom]

Are the parks more crowded now in the #2 sense? Yes, for sure, especially for those legacy FP and FP+ experts who stayed onsite and booked at the 60 day mark.

First of all, this is one of the most comprehensive and intelligent posts on this topic I’ve seen. Kudos! Our first trips began with the Dumbo dash, etc. But even way back then as a WDW newbie, I felt like I had a handle on what should be done and when. Now? 15 years later… I feel like a newbie. Even with 2 Christmas week trips and about 12 summer trips, I feel…. Lost. What even constitutes “smart touring” anymore? I know for our family midday breaks from heat (summer always) are a must. So we’ll continue with that, rope drop and park close, and hopefully figure out best G+ strategy in next 4 months…

 

[tigger2002]

"Smart touring" was pretty common knowledge around places like DIS:

• Maximize legacy FP
  • run around to the FP machines all day
  • "run with the bulls" at RD to TSM and Soarin', etc.
  • use of "late FPs" (remember that?) when FP windows were not enforced - that was huge!!!
• Maximize FP+
  • ride reservations 60 days in advance for onsite/30 days for offsite
• Arrive for rope drop and focus on rides for the first 2-3 hours
• Take afternoon breaks when parks were most crowded and it was hottest outside
• Stay until park closing when possible
• Avoid parks with morning EMH or park hop after maximizing morning EMH
• Use crowd calendars to choose which parks on which days
• Schedule down days from parks to rebuild energy so one could do all the previous
• And more depending on the age of your group

The good old days!

 

[Mrs.AMC]

I think the single biggest reason is pent up demand. So many people have gone the better part of two years without travel that they are anxious to go somewhere.

DVC members have points built up from trips cancelled or not taken and want to use them before they lose them.

I’m here now and spoke to quite a few abs this has been the number one reason I’ve been given. Especially the nonUS visitors

they are telling me they are ready to go anywhere

 

[lockets]

I’m here now and spoke to quite a few abs this has been the number one reason I’ve been given. Especially the nonUS visitors

they are telling me they are ready to go anywhere

I took a peek last December at a UK travel agent web site. The deals Disney was offering was way more robust then what was on stateside. It was cash on gift cards to help with dining plus hotel discounts and deep ticket discounts. They still have deals going on currently… see here:
https://www.mousesavers.com/disney-discounts-for-uk-and-ireland-visitors/

 

[katyjeka]

We visited for a couple weeks in December, had a great trip, but swore we would not return anytime soon. I feel we have outgrown Disney. We made the fortunate "mistake" of visiting Yellowstone, Redwood National Park, and our girls have decided they like that type of trip better. Well we have a few days at the end of March and are in the mood to travel so Disney here we come. I think parks are busier than usual because people are desperate to travel, anywhere!!!! I know our family treasures our vacations and really missed them the last couple years.

 

[JAMIESMITH]

Wow! How long are your days? I'd be thrilled to get 9 rides into a day, but my days are only around 8 hours and I'm pooped. I am very hesitant to plan any more trips fearing that we would only get on 3 rides a day and that is definitely not worth it.

Not the person you were quoting, but on my first trip we rode BTMRR at least nine times plus lots of other rides during a twelve hour park day. This was ten years ago and in September, but definitely possible.

 

[AprilsZoo]

Yes, I was going to say that I keep seeing 50th anniversary ads on regular TV. I've only been watching old fashioned TV to get the weather forecast and school closings because our weather has been crazy lately. Anyway, seems like there is always a WDW ad every time I turn it on.

There was a banner ad (middle of the screen, below faves and suggestions) on my FireTV Home Screen last week. Click on it and it does a 30-ish second commercial for the 50th Celebration.

So yeah, they are heavily advertising, and it’s not just on regular, non-streaming TV…

[As an aside, on the topic of ads on streaming device platforms:

A few weeks ago they had a Headliner ad (large area at the very top of the screen where they advertise new shows and have teaser trailers) for “The New Corvette”… I was curious— I Corvettes (although I really covet the older ones… specifically a ’63 split-rear window model , but I digress…) What launched was a roughly half-hour infomercial!… There was a LOT of awesome info about the new features, including the story of how they had to redesign the exhaust system to be louder— meaning increase the decibel level of the sound of the exhaust inside the car— because that was the biggest complaint among the enthusiasts they invited to test the prototypes… the exhaust didn’t sound like a Corvette. It was really interesting.]