Why the Middle class is not being out priced, the Washington Post article is one sided at best.

[oddman]

Unless you think the "wealthy folk" outnumber the middle class, your suggestion that Disney would rather have a crowd of such folk implies a smaller group of customers. And if the middle class is being priced out, they need to not only increase their visits to continue driving attendance year-over-year, but they'd need to increase visits even more to also offset the much larger drop in attendance by the middle class.

I can see why you might think that. But I did not intend for you to infer smaller total numbers. So let me be super duper clear.

There are more people with enough disposable income to visit Disney than at any other time in the history of mankind.

if there were 100 people in world who had the monies to do a Disney trip in 1970 there is now more like 400 people. Now I am making up the numbers merely to provide a very clear example of why Disney HAS ALREADY been able to DOUBLE the price and still have capacity numbers much of the year.

lets be clear, even having doubled the price in inflation adjusted and wage adjusted dollars Disney still did not drive away enough people to reduce attendance.

this is simply the next step in the drive towards max profit per head.

People in other countries may be doing better over the past couple of decades, but they still generally have fewer "wealthy folk" than they do middle class, so you're still talking about smaller target markets. Even among those wealthier international guests, travel costs to the U.S. are higher and the USD has made Disney World even more expensive for them over the past couple of years.

ref the global pop and income. trying to be nice as I say nope. ..

Disney can lose market share in the USA and even globally because the market itself is growing faster than the decline in share.

Frankly this is easy to understand , you just have to want to understand and be willing to accept basic math.....

massively more people on the planet with more wealth than a middle class American family than we have ever seen before.

American middle class families are in decline while internationally middle class incomes are leaping forward in both monies and peoples.

Thus disny has successfully doubled the price, retained the crowds and looks like they are about to take it to the next level...

 

[sheetz]

Brazilian tourists are forecast to increase by 50% over the next few years. A huge portion of them end up in Orlando.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/05/how-does-brazils-travel-boom-affect-florida.aspx

Sightseeing and shopping may top the to-do list for Brazilians in the U.S., but these travelers are also big theme-park fans. Fully half of the Brazilians who come to the U.S. go to at least one amusement park while they're here, which may explain why Florida -- and Orlando, in particular -- is the most popular destination for tourists from Brazil. Of the 1.3 million Brazilians who visited Florida in 2013, 768,000 of them went to Orlando, making Brazil the largest international market for Orlando travel and tourism.

Disney caters to this booming market by going out of its way to make Brazilian guests feel welcome. Walt Disney World has a staff of dozens of "super greeters" who are fluent in Portuguese to answer questions and help out with foreign tour groups. Disney said the "super greeter" staff, which also features Spanish-speaking employees, tripled in size between 2010 and 2013. Disney, Sea World, and Universal Studios Florida all have Portuguese web sites for their Brazilian guests.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Sorry mate but the Post writer is correct , and I can say that without having read a single word...



Here is how it goes.


over the last 15 years Disney World has increased prices beyond inflation to the point that a 1 day ticket costs twice as much as it did 15 years ago (averaged out over 20 odd years )

Now I have to be clear because disfans don't like this fact as it does not make Disney look friendly.. so.

If we take the cost of a ticket from 1995, 1999, 2002, etc and adjust it to todays dollars they work out at about 50% of todays price to enter.

as we take the average family income 1995 , 1999, 2002 etc and adjust into todays dollars we do not see a real increase in incomes for working and middle class they have DECLINED in adjusted dollars. That has been offset somewhat by increased purchasing power of the dollar for some goods. but overall it is a loss or at best a wash.


so tickets cost twice as much.

middle class is the same or lower


Disney is now less affordable for the middle classes than is has been over the last 20 odd years.


It is important not to turn this into a fight over the exact percentages because they don't matter, what matters is that families have less ability to purchase a family vacation to Disneyworld than they did when we were kids....


can any family save up and go, of course, but that does not mean it compares favorably with other goods and services and thus can be viewed as comparatively unaffordable .


In real terms it costs more to visit Disney than it has over the last decade or so and looks set to see a whole new bunch of increases. Disney knows they don't need the middle class and that there is more money in having a crowd made up of wealthy folk who are more likely to drop a wallet load of cash on a stuffed toy and a fancy dinner.

Your entitled to our opinion. However just because it cost more then 20 years ago, does NOT means Disney is pricing WDW vacation out of the reach of the Middle class. All things cost more these days, especially, entertainment. When you can still get a discounted value room resort for $87.00 a night easily in the range of the middle class.

Yes ticket prices have goone up.......just like other parks......yet so has the attractions and shows increased.

Uni is slowly and quietly matching a lot of WDW pricing..........been to a concert?,...hundreds for 2 or 3 hours of show???.......Ball game????....last I saw was $110 per person, not including transportation.....movies....with snacks, parking etc...$25.00 +, for 2 .5 hours.

The article was written with facts all leaning to side with the intention to prove his opinion, He used the $115.00 steak , which was for 2 and ignored the other food prices at TS and CS items......ignored you can get a value resort room discounted to $87.00 last summer Add all the things that WDW provide free, where can a family go and ride all the Transportation free.....Monorails, buses, boats, visit the amazing resorts, watch fireworks every night, join in to the campfire sing-alongs, watch the evening lake light parade, etc.etc.etc.... ......just examples that the author was wrong.

Yes I am a Disney fan, yet I will Also complain when they screw up just like most Disney fans here. What I will not do is suport a poor researched and written article whose main intention was just to knock Disney. If anyone feels WDW is to expensive, they need not go to WDW. However if a middle class family wants to go, there are indeed ways and means for them to afford to go and have a magical vacation and enjoy the pixie dust just like any other people. A WDW vacation cannot be found anywhere else in the world, its that special.

AKK

 

[MotherRunner]

I think the issue is that everyone thinks of "middle class" as something different. A poster above suggested a family making $100k. I disagree very strongly with that. I think it's much lower and I would bet some posters would think it's higher. Everyone thinks they are middle class when in reality they are probably much higher.

Ive seen several threads on this and alot of people are saying a $3000-5000 trip is "affordable" and "not unreasonable". That price is ridiculously high to alot of families. Real middle class, not perceived middle class. We are a military family. I would consider us middle class. We make WAY below 100k. A $3000-5000 trip is insane. Do we go to Disney? Yes because I budget, they give great military discounts, we stay off-site, and we don't do everything.

People read the Post article and say of course middle class cant afford the $10,000- 15000 vacation that he is suggesting. Who does that? Only the horrible bloodsucking 1 percenters. Us middle class do it on a budget and only spend $5000." You aren't middle class. Because us middle classes can't afford $5000 either.

The OP is correct. The Post reporter was wrong with his reasoning of why he claims Disney is getting more and more out of reach for middle class, but his statement isnt wrong.

Consider this. What total income do YOU think is middle class?

 

[Planogirl]

Consider this. What total income do YOU think is middle class?

I think that the answer depends on where you live and the cost of living in your area. I did look up the median income the last time it was reported in 2013 and it was $52,250. But what does that mean in relation to the middle class and how much people can afford to spend?

I will definitely agree that this article was poorly written. It's a good topic though.

 

[MotherRunner]

I did look up the median income the last time it was reported in 2013 and it was $52,250. But what does that mean in relation to the middle class and how much people can afford to spend?

Very good point. Who really knows what someone can afford to spend. We don't know their debts, financial burdens, or willingness to put it all their credit card. But a family of 4 or 5 making $52,000 is going to have a hard time spending $5000 without inccuring some debt or saving for YEARS. Trust me

I think the article was just meant to get a reaction. The OP did a good job of calling out the absurdities of the things the article claimed were the "norm" for a family visiting Disney. I mean I don't get a $115 steak for just any occasion

Let's all agree that reporter has never been to Disney and call him a moron.

 

[tubtruck]

Disney vacations have gotten much less affordable over time relative to income, the rate of ticket price increases in the last 8 years is beyond outrageous. However the article is pretty much a sensationalist hack-job of what I would expect from most main-stream media. It talks about 1-day ticket prices like someone going on a "once in a lifetime vacation" is going to pay that for the day. There are still ways to make a Disney trip affordable, and certainly affordable for a middle class income family. The article makes it look like the high end is the norm. We've been to Disney 10 times and have never budgeted more than $4000, and often under $3000, which is not extravagant for a week-long vacation, and that is staying on-property with airline tickets. A family of 4 staying off-property could certainly best $3000 depending on where they are coming from. (Airfare can be a massive factor in any vacation plans.)

Edit: I did a little research, and "middle class" is now defined pretty broadly, with incomes between $32K and $150K. That's a pretty huge difference. I was thinking of "middle class" as being around $100K annual income. I would agree a family making <$50K a year would have a hard time affording a trip to WDW.

I now understand a little better what is considered to be middle class in the US, it seems to me that the bar is set a lot lower and a different measure than that in the uk. A $32k household income would certainly not be considered a middle class income and if the household contained children it would be considered to be working poor.

 

[Jing]

I now understand a little better what is considered to be middle class in the US, it seems to me that the bar is set a lot lower and a different measure than that in the uk. A $32k household income would certainly not be considered a middle class income and if the household contained children it would be considered to be working poor.

I'm beginning to think that terminology is a clearer description of middle class in the U.S. than using income numbers.

 

[LuvGoofy6]

Not sure how accurate this is but this is a chart from Business Insider that states the median household income, middle class upper bound and lower class bound.
http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4

 

[Happyinwonerland]

According to that chart, we are above the middle class upper bound for our state. Which makes us what, upper class? That just isn't true. We live in an unimpressive starter house in a small, starter neighborhood. We drive yawn-inducing vehicles and don't save as much as I'd like. We certainly don't live an upper class lifestyle.

 

[sheetz]

According to that chart, we are above the middle class upper bound for our state. Which makes us what, upper class? That just isn't true. We live in an unimpressive starter house in a small, starter neighborhood. We drive yawn-inducing vehicles and don't save as much as I'd like. We certainly don't live an upper class lifestyle.

Actually, most wealthy people don't live extravagant lifestyles.

 

[Major Tom]

Disney might be fishing for whales but I think a lot of minnows are still being caught in the net.

 

[jimmytammy]

The article came across as anti-business in general too me. And he used Disney as a scapegoat

 

[Happyinwonerland]

Actually, most wealthy people don't live extravagant lifestyles.

But we aren't even wealthy. I feel just a smudge above poor most days. Our next worth is pathetic. Maybe it's only because we've been at this income for a couple years, but sheesh, that chart makes it seem like we should be ballin', and we just aren't.

 

[sheetz]

But we aren't even wealthy. I feel just a smudge above poor most days. Our next worth is pathetic. Maybe it's only because we've been at this income for a couple years, but sheesh, that chart makes it seem like we should be ballin', and we just aren't.

That chart isn't saying anything except that your income is much higher than the median for your area. There are obviously other factors to consider (household size, extraordinary expenses, etc.) but in general someone with your income would not be considered "a smudge above poor" by anyone's definition.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

What about "Treating" friends and/or extending family?

We have been fortunate enough to visit a lot, but also have taking many less fortunate guests along over the years.

Nieces, nephews, friends, 2 "senior" trips with the kid's friends that would have never gone, a college spring break and a high school spring break with similar circumstances, a mentally challenged young man. Those were actually the most rewarding/memorable.

Many times treated families to a DVC room.

I can imagine there is a large percentage of guests every day, that would never have gone without the group they are traveling with.

 

[Firsttimer15]

Disney is the only Place I have visited so far that is so centered about making money. Of course every place is about profit but I am sorry to say it grossed me out how obvious and visible it was. It is true you can go there a lot cheaper than mentioned in the article but don't get to do everything.
What they charge is ridicoulus, I understand they will as long as people continue to pay but I won't return ever. It is Not value for Money. I even have the money I could have spend it but I didn't feel any magic just the next opportunity to make more for them.
I think that is what the article tries to express and there is no denying that. Even with inflation Disney charges way above more than what they used to and what I would consider fair for both sides.

 

[Planogirl]

All of us have a different idea of what a fair charge is. I consider WDW a bit more expensive that the value it gives but others might see just the opposite. In fact so far it appears that many others see good value there.

It is expensive. Simple truth in my opinion. Constantly stating that Disney is in the business of making money (like any corporation) doesn't change that.

 

[mickeyfanachey1999]

We wouldn't be able to go nearly as often without my mother and her ultra generous attitude towards her DVC points. Trips wouldn't be every year and when we did go we would most likely stay offsite. And according to the chart we are right at the upper bound of middle class even with my wife homeschooling our kids and earning all her money through "daytime nannying" other children.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Disney is the only Place I have visited so far that is so centered about making money. Of course every place is about profit but I am sorry to say it grossed me out how obvious and visible it was. It is true you can go there a lot cheaper than mentioned in the article but don't get to do everything.
What they charge is ridicoulus, I understand they will as long as people continue to pay but I won't return ever. It is Not value for Money. I even have the money I could have spend it but I didn't feel any magic just the next opportunity to make more for them.
I think that is what the article tries to express and there is no denying that. Even with inflation Disney charges way above more than what they used to and what I would consider fair for both sides.

I believe you.

But is it just Disney? Or UNI/IOA as well?

Also-what price would you charge, or want them to charge for rooms/food/tickets?

I think it would be extremely tough to set pricing there. There are just too many people already there IMO. Even 2 new headliners at every park would only make it busier IMO-and certainly more expensive.

If they dropped the price in half-capacity would be reached by noon every day IMO.