Why the single mom with kids argument?

[andyman8]

I think some here are taking the team too literally. Yes of course there are single mothers — and probably some with four kids — who go to Disney and continue to gladly go to Disney. I don’t think the point is meant to be taking literally. It’s less about rising prices (that’s been a tale as old as time as it relates to WDW) and more about the optics of cutting back the “base” experience while raising prices and very explicitly catering to the wealthy. For example, the average Guest who splurges for the recently -increased-in-price Park Hopper add-on now can’t change parks until 2pm. But those Club 33 Guests or Guests on VIP tours can hop whenever they want, like it’s 2019. Another example is G+/ILL. Something that was previously included in park admission isn’t and park admission prices have still increased in price. I’m all for “pay more, get more” but it’s a rarity to find anyone who thinks G+ is a major improvement over FP+. Now, to “maximize” my $15 purchase, I’m getting up at 7am on vacation, setting alarms throughout the day, and spending tons of time refreshing. Another example: if you were staying at Pop in 2019, you got a couple extra hours in the parks at night on certain days of the week, but now, you don’t. But you still do if you’re paying $500 to be at the GF. And no one is saying you shouldn’t get more for staying there, but there’s a way to add value to stay at the GF without removing existing offerings for other Guests. I’m all for paying more to get more, but I’m not for dialing back and watering down the baseline experience and taking previously included things and putting them behind a paywall or restriction. That’s the frustration. You’re paying more and getting less and while Disney makes it more difficult and cumbersome for you to have just that baseline experience while Disney seemingly goes to great lengths to cater to the $220k on a trip crowd. You can cater to the ladder without needlessly making it more difficult for the former. It’s terrible optics, and I agree with the team that the chicken will come home to roost at some point for TWDC. This isn’t just increasing prices; there’sa lot more going on here.

 

[DLgal]

I think some here are taking the team too literally. Yes of course there are single mothers — and probably some with four kids — who go to Disney and continue to gladly go to Disney. I don’t think the point is meant to be taking literally. It’s less about rising prices (that’s been a tale as old as time as it relates to WDW) and more about the optics of cutting back the “base” experience while raising prices and very explicitly catering to the wealthy. For example, the average Guest who splurges for the recently -increased-in-price Park Hopper add-on now can’t change parks until 2pm. But those Club 33 Guests or Guests on VIP tours can hop whenever they want, like it’s 2019. Another example is G+/ILL. Something that was previously included in park admission isn’t and park admission prices have still increased in price. I’m all for “pay more, get more” but it’s a rarity to find anyone who thinks G+ is a major improvement over FP+. Now, to “maximize” my $15 purchase, I’m getting up at 7am on vacation, setting alarms throughout the day, and spending tons of time refreshing. Another example: if you were staying at Pop in 2019, you got a couple extra hours in the parks at night on certain days of the week, but now, you don’t. But you still do if you’re paying $500 to be at the GF. And no one is saying you shouldn’t get more for staying there, but there’s a way to add value to stay at the GF without removing existing offerings for other Guests. I’m all for paying more to get more, but I’m not for dialing back and watering down the baseline experience and taking previously included things and putting them behind a paywall or restriction. That’s the frustration. You’re paying more and getting less and while Disney makes it more difficult and cumbersome for you to have just that baseline experience while Disney seemingly goes to great lengths to cater to the $220k on a trip crowd. You can cater to the ladder without needlessly making it more difficult for the former. It’s terrible optics, and I agree with the team that the chicken will come home to roost at some point for TWDC. This isn’t just increasing prices; there’sa lot more going on here.

Bingo.

Disney seems to think they can charge more for an "elite" experience and then deliver a crap one. The people who CAN "pay more" ALSO expect more. Disney isn't delivering.

All the while making it impossible for many people to afford to come at all, who used to be able to, thus watering down the pool of people who are going to grow up and take THEIR kids. They are looking at short term profits at the expense of the long game.

It will be interesting to see the "fire sale" tactics they revert to once we are back in recession territory and all the cheap credit of the last few years dries up.

I have a feeling next summer will be a good one for deals.

 

[pianomanzano]

Agreed everyone is taking this too literally. The complaints Pete and company are bringing up is the optics of all of Disney’s moves. Announcing a 109k ABD trip during a time of high inflation, $5.00/gal gas, and fears of a recession is so out of touch. It won’t stop us Disney goers from continuing to go, but it just looks bad.

And to those who think the average family or single mother with 4 kids doesn’t exist or are some mythical entities, they do exist and do want to do Disney but feel priced out. A cousin of mine, single mother of 2, opted for Universal instead of Disney to get more for her money. Sure Disney’s expensive and always has been but it’s even more so now with nickel and diming like G+/ILL to squeeze folks out of more money that it’s become out of reach. My intent isn’t to offer a solution (honestly don’t think there is one given the super high demand for Disney) but to just say that this market exists.

 

[travelpantfam]

Bingo.

Disney seems to think they can charge more for an "elite" experience and then deliver a crap one. The people who CAN "pay more" ALSO expect more. Disney isn't delivering.

All the while making it impossible for many people to afford to come at all, who used to be able to, thus watering down the pool of people who are going to grow up and take THEIR kids. They are looking at short term profits at the expense of the long game.

It will be interesting to see the "fire sale" tactics they revert to once we are back in recession territory and all the cheap credit of the last few years dries up.

I have a feeling next summer will be a good one for deals.

I have been a long time lurker on these boards, but just recently decided to join in on the fun conversations!

We have taken many trips to Disney world over the past 15 years, with our stays ranging from All Star Sports (my children actually requested to stay here) to a one bedroom villa at Beach Club (an upgrade from a cancelled COVID trip).

We have our next stay booked for March 2023 at The Contemporary, and I was shocked to see the price tag on that trip! I currently am in a place in my life where I prioritize my vacation time and am lucky enough to have the funds to afford it comfortably, but I understand that not everyone has that luxury and that doesn't make their vacation time any less valuable.

I did chose a deluxe resort for this trip because of the deluxe extra evening hours. With that being said, I do expect more if I pay more. If not in the form of these extra hours then maybe somewhere else.... I do think that Universal does the tiered hotel experience much better. Getting the express pass included in your stay at a top tier hotel is a huge perk! It is also not excluding anyone else, if someone else, (either day ticket or another tier of hotel guest) would like to purchase it, they can!

Do I miss FastPass+, of course! I have been on two trips since Genie+ has been around and have not purchased it yet (for whatever reason I am still the most bitter about that change).

While I do miss the way planning a Disney World vacation used to be, I try to remind myself that the only constant is change, and your vacation will be whatever you make of it!

 

[swfmco]

I just really hate the whole “if I can’t afford it, then I hate it” review take that is prevalent not only here, but throughout the fandom. Not everything is for everybody, including the Disney parks.

Disney parks have never been for the “single mom of four”. Even starting out in 1955, it has been an experience for the upper middle class with lower strata of society being able to participate once in their lives through sacrifice and saving.

 

[Jrb1979]

I just really hate the whole “if I can’t afford it, then I hate it” review take that is prevalent not only here, but throughout the fandom. Not everything is for everybody, including the Disney parks.

Disney parks have never been for the “single mom of four”. Even starting out in 1955, it has been an experience for the upper middle class with lower strata of society being able to participate once in their lives through sacrifice and saving.

You're missing the point just like the majority in this thread has. It's not about being able to afford it or being for the "single mom of four". Andyman8 said it best.
"It's less about rising prices (that’s been a tale as old as time as it relates to WDW) and more about the optics of cutting back the “base” experience while raising prices and very explicitly catering to the wealthy." They never were that way before. Yes they have always been expensive but it used to be that everyone that went pretty much were treated equally.

 

[TomorrowlandKD]

I just really hate the whole “if I can’t afford it, then I hate it” review take that is prevalent not only here, but throughout the fandom. Not everything is for everybody, including the Disney parks.

This this this and this. Especially on these recent podcasts.

Also the "single Mom" thing and them tying it to the Northeast (Deni), it's just a strange comparison that the team seems to be taking lately. The constant "single Mom" comparison seems to put the bent on that all "single Moms" are poor. It's a bad look.

I PROMISE you there are married couples without kids who try to afford Disney too.

 

[Jrb1979]

This this this and this. Especially on these recent podcasts.

Also the "single Mom" thing and then tying it to the Northeast (Deni), it's just a strange comparison that the team seems to be taking lately. The constant "single Mom" comparison seems to put the bent on that all "single Moms" are poor. It's a bad look.

I PROMISE you there are married couples without kids who try to afford Disney too.

It was used as an example of how Disney has changed to who they are catering to. It has nothing to do with being able to afford Disney.

 

[john7994]

Bingo.

Disney seems to think they can charge more for an "elite" experience and then deliver a crap one. The people who CAN "pay more" ALSO expect more. Disney isn't delivering.

All the while making it impossible for many people to afford to come at all, who used to be able to, thus watering down the pool of people who are going to grow up and take THEIR kids. They are looking at short term profits at the expense of the long game.

It will be interesting to see the "fire sale" tactics they revert to once we are back in recession territory and all the cheap credit of the last few years dries up.

I have a feeling next summer will be a good one for deals.

Yeah!!!! a recession will teach that Disney a lesson - of course the collateral damage will be everyone else in the economy - but Yeah!!!

 

[TomorrowlandKD]

It was used as an example of how Disney has changed to who they are catering to. It has nothing to do with being able to afford Disney.

Was this week's episode your first time listening? It's not a jab, I'm genuinely asking.

 

[john7994]

It was used as an example of how Disney has changed to who they are catering to. It has nothing to do with being able to afford Disney.

They have the luxury (in the current economic climate and based on demand) of catering to a more affluent mix - which any brand or for-profit business would and should lean into - this does not automatically suggest that Disney hates the average American family - sorry - this is very one-sided and a very biased read of the situation.

 

[Jrb1979]

They have the luxury (in the current economic climate and based on demand) of catering to a more affluent mix - which any brand or for-profit business would and should lean into - this does not automatically suggest that Disney hates the average American family - sorry - this is very one-sided and a very biased read of the situation.

Not at all one-sided. I'm not saying don't cater to a more affluent mix. My point and also the one that was originally made is that before this change in who they are marketing to that everyone who stayed on property or visited the parks were treated as equals. If you stayed on property, didn't matter which hotel, you all got the same perks.

The point was not to make things more affordable to the single mom or family of 4 but give them something too. Lately the perks seem to go those that are more affluent.

 

[john7994]

Not at all one-sided. I'm not saying don't cater to a more affluent mix. My point and also the one that was originally made is that before this change in who they are marketing to that everyone who stayed on property or visited the parks were treated as equals. If you stayed on property, didn't matter which hotel, you all got the same perks.

The point was not to make things more affordable to the single mom or family of 4 but give them something too. Lately the perks seem to go those that are more affluent.

I get your point but you are jumping to a conclusion based on a few miscellaneous and disconnected points - like a bucket list trip around the world for 75 people.

As we talked about yesterday in your proposed solution of giving EH to all on-site guests - fine - but what about the offsite guests? You said - you can't please everyone. So your line is a little different than Disney's - it doesn't mean they have changed anything in their philosophy or the total abandonment of the American Family - other than leaning into a more lucrative mix of guests based on current demand which favors their approach (and admittedly yours).

Are you in a better position on the outside to actually understand what should be done next with their business? As people have repeatedly said - lowering prices will increase demand further - then what - just deprioritize and not cater to the Deluxe customers at all?

 

[travelpantfam]

You're missing the point just like the majority in this thread has. It's not about being able to afford it or being for the "single mom of four". Andyman8 said it best.
"It's less about rising prices (that’s been a tale as old as time as it relates to WDW) and more about the optics of cutting back the “base” experience while raising prices and very explicitly catering to the wealthy." They never were that way before. Yes they have always been expensive but it used to be that everyone that went pretty much were treated equally.

Doesn't every for-profit company want to cater to the wealthy? At least to some extent?

It would be a wonderful world if everyone, everywhere was treated exactly the same no matter how much they paid for something.... I would love to walk into a Chevy dealership and leave with the upgrades associated with a Camaro when I paid for a Malibu. If you pay a premium you should, in theory, get something extra over those who paid less.

Let's assume there are two different families of 4. They each make the same amount of money. The only difference being that one group saved for two years while the other only saved for one. The first group was able to then afford to stay deluxe and get the perks associated with that. The only difference between these two imaginary families is the amount of time that they saved up for their trip. Should they not reap the benefits of saving a little longer?

Obviously, everyone's dollar matters, but most businesses (I would assume) would prefer to cater towards those willing to open their wallets more.

 

[Her Dotness]

And Disney is undoubtedly scrambling to recoup the billions lost during the shutdowns, worldwide and then extended for some parks.

Chapek's focus is on dollars and cents, so why would anyone think making people feel happier about what they're getting would be his priority as long as Disney is still getting their money?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Announcing a 109k ABD trip during a time of high inflation, $5.00/gal gas, and fears of a recession is so out of touch.

No it's not out of touch IMO. Would I ever pay it? Um no. But ABD has always been expensive. Hello it's Adventures by Disney..you get the Disney touch AND tour guides and access, etc. I remember several years ago (before the pandemic) people talking about the Wyoming trip IIRC. It was like way stupid expensive for what it was and that was the main talking point, trying to figure out who would spend that much money for Wyoming.

There's a whole niche market of people looking at the itineraries of the trips to see if they can copy it.

And this one announced..it's not like us WDW guests are necessarily looking to go to the Taj Mahal or the Pyramids in Egypt plus actually going in all 12 Disney parks throughout the trip. Usually it takes years and years for people to get to DLP or Tokyo DisneySea (or DL) nevermind touring Tokyo or Shanghai, etc Airfare alone for each of those places can be very costly. It's been since I think 2014 perhaps but when my husband had to go to Tokyo for business it was so high they had to raise the credit card limit on his corporate credit card lol.

ABD has always been targeted at very specific people, people who don't mind paying high dollar, sometimes their tours are more mundane and sometimes they are incredibly unique, but no matter what it's something with a certain discerning clientele in mind.

 

[pianomanzano]

No it's not out of touch IMO. Would I ever pay it? Um no. But ABD has always been expensive. Hello it's Adventures by Disney..you get the Disney touch AND tour guides and access, etc. I remember several years ago (before the pandemic) people talking about the Wyoming trip IIRC. It was like way stupid expensive for what it was and that was the main talking point, trying to figure out who would spend that much money for Wyoming.

There's a whole niche market of people looking at the itineraries of the trips to see if they can copy it.

And this one announced..it's not like us WDW guests are necessarily looking to go to the Taj Mahal or the Pyramids in Egypt plus actually going in all 12 Disney parks throughout the trip. Usually it takes years and years for people to get to DLP or Tokyo DisneySea (or DL) nevermind touring Tokyo or Shanghai, etc Airfare alone for each of those places can be very costly. It's been since I think 2014 perhaps but when my husband had to go to Tokyo for business it was so high they had to raise the credit card limit on his corporate credit card lol.

ABD has always been targeted at very specific people, people who don't mind paying high dollar, sometimes their tours are more mundane and sometimes they are incredibly unique, but no matter what it's something with a certain discerning clientele in mind.

I'm saying the perception is Disney is out of touch to the general public, regardless of who the market of that trip is. We know this is for 1% but when the media reports (responsible/correct media issues aside) a new 109k Disney vacation that shows b-roll footage of families at domestic parks with banners at the bottom showing dismal economic indicators, it furthers the narrative of Disney being out of touch.

 

[DLgal]

Yeah!!!! a recession will teach that Disney a lesson - of course the collateral damage will be everyone else in the economy - but Yeah!!!

It will teach them a lesson. As it will hopefully teach ALL massive corporations who have been gouging people while lowering service quality over the last couple years. It's unsustainable. At some point, people push back, sometimes out of spite, but sometimes due to massive economic recession.

 

[Her Dotness]

There's a very simple way to convey dissatisfaction with how Disney is treating us...

Why wait for a recession to do the job for us?

Just stop going to Disney and enlist everyone you know to do likewise.

 

[john7994]

It will teach them a lesson. As it will hopefully teach ALL massive corporations who have been gouging people while lowering service quality over the last couple years. It's unsustainable. At some point, people push back, sometimes out of spite, but sometimes due to massive economic recession.

Believe it or not, we share the same view that Disney's value proposition is sketchy at best these days. Its frustrating as heck. I want them to continue on tradition in providing an unparalleled experience - sadly they are hyper-focused on recouping from the pandemic and shoring up a changing media landscape - both huge exposures for Disney - with very consumer-experience oriented businesses which ebb and flow based on sentiment.

With a looming recession (and I hope its not lengthy for those most vulnerable to it), I fear Disney is almost forced to double-down on this current path because they will need to maximize now for what appears to be leaner times later - not a very satisfying answer on the emotional side of it in the current stretch. The gouging is a whole different issue which I agree is not sustainable for anyone participating in the economy these days.